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Thread: Got it started- headers glowing red, backfires & no rev

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    25,923
    My Cars
    87 325is
    One tooth off on the cam will reduce power, but won't cause what this engine is doing. Two teeth off may result in valves meeting the pistons, more than two teeth off will make a lot of noise and bend valves.

    The relatively easy check for the catalytic converter being plugged would be to disconnect and drop the down tubes from the headers.
    The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
    Jim Levie, Huntsville, AL

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Kernersville, NC
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    69
    My Cars
    1997 325iC
    OK, Heres what happened today after putting the old DME back in.
    I pulled the O2 sensor to see if that may relieve back pressure and possible make the engine run any better. (The techs do this with material handling equipment where I work and its a good signal if the cat is blocked)It was the same, just louder and getting hot. I shut her down and reinstalled the O2 sensor.

    -Next I popped the top off the AFM, it seemed top be sealed with a little silicon maybe. Couldn't really tell. The sensor seemed to me to be really tight but I have no knowledge of what it is supposed to be, but when I cranked the engine It did move.
    -Then I fired her up and rigged a wire to hold the throttle, I physically moved the arm on the AFM and It helped.
    -While the AFM arm moved back to its original position and the throttle pulled open, I walked around and observed the collector from the header getting very red.
    -I went back to the AFM indexed it and relieved the spring pressure, then I fixed the arm at about 75% and adjusted the throttle to a nice 1100ish rpm (loping almost) idle. This cooled the collector immediately.
    - I let the car run 10 minutes trying to get a good idle adjusting both the throttle and AFM. It never got that hot again. It sounded good at times, but black smoke at times too.
    - The exhaust system is definitely open.
    -I observed fuel pressure while running to be 39-40 psi, when raising rpms the pressure went to 45psi
    -I maxed her out at about maybe 2000-2500ish rpms, I really didnt try to rev it
    What do you think. Thanks again for the help. I think we're headed in the right direction. What should this engine idle (rpm) at?
    What is the malfunction??
    Last edited by zzbearcat; 02-08-2011 at 08:46 PM.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southern Ontario
    Posts
    144
    My Cars
    1990 325i
    good job

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Minneapolis,MN
    Posts
    32
    My Cars
    87 L6, 85 635csi, 92 MB 190e, 07 Toyota Yaris
    some time ago I bought an e30 that was running like crap. I had to have it floored just to maintain 70mph on the highway. The PO had replaced the injectors with "bigger" ones which I knew before I bought it. After I installed the stock ones everything went back to normal. For some reason you're dumping fuel. A bad coolant temp sensor will not cause such a sever running rich condition so that's out. You've covered the timing, ecu and fuel pressure. The only thing left will be to see what injectors are in the car and possibly swapping a different set - it's a fairly easy procedure and doesn't take much time. Let us know. Subscribed....

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Kernersville, NC
    Posts
    69
    My Cars
    1997 325iC
    Quote Originally Posted by zzbearcat View Post
    OK, Heres what happened today after putting the old DME back in.
    I pulled the O2 sensor to see if that may relieve back pressure and possible make the engine run any better. (The techs do this with material handling equipment where I work and its a good signal if the cat is blocked)It was the same, just louder and getting hot. I shut her down and reinstalled the O2 sensor.

    -Next I popped the top off the AFM, it seemed top be sealed with a little silicon maybe. Couldn't really tell. The sensor seemed to me to be really tight but I have no knowledge of what it is supposed to be, but when I cranked the engine It did move.
    -Then I fired her up and rigged a wire to hold the throttle, I physically moved the arm on the AFM and It helped.
    -While the AFM arm moved back to its original position and the throttle pulled open, I walked around and observed the collector from the header getting very red.
    -I went back to the AFM indexed it and relieved the spring pressure, then I fixed the arm at about 75% and adjusted the throttle to a nice 1100ish rpm (loping almost) idle. This cooled the collector immediately.
    - I let the car run 10 minutes trying to get a good idle adjusting both the throttle and AFM. It never got that hot again. It sounded good at times, but black smoke at times too.
    - The exhaust system is definitely open.
    -I observed fuel pressure while running to be 39-40 psi, when raising rpms the pressure went to 45psi
    -I maxed her out at about maybe 2000-2500ish rpms, I really didnt try to rev
    OK after all of this listed above last night, tonight I installed a working AFM, no change, back to same results in the beginning. I used 2 different DMEs with this AFM.
    -I reinstalled the old AFM that I removed the top from, and fired her up. I loosened the risistance in the spring the sweepers on the AFM set at about 50%. The car will idle roughly with the throttle cracked and the AFM sweepers stop at about 60%. It runs cool enough, no glowing exhaust, about 1000 rpms. Some black smoke from the exhaust. When I try to accelerate, it gets to about 2000 rps and starts busting out. Thats as high as it will go. Fuel pressure is same as above.
    - I checked voltage from the AFM. It starts at 0 and goes incrementally to 4v evenly at the end, no drop outs. I thought it was supposed to go to 5volts.mmm

    What is the problem?? Help!! Thanks
    Last edited by zzbearcat; 02-09-2011 at 08:18 PM.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    MYRTLE BCH SC
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    86 porsche 930, 88 325is
    big air leak maing it run lean?
    losening the spring would compensate for the air leak.

    put the spring back to where it was.
    [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING: 86 PORSCHE 930
    [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING: 88 BMW 325is 200K+
    [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING: 2000 MERCEDES E320 WAGON
    [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:99 GRAND CHEROKEE 160K::
    [_:_] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING: mazda B2200

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Certified Okie
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    5,665
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    S52 times 2
    Quote Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
    big air leak maing it run lean?
    losening the spring would compensate for the air leak.

    put the spring back to where it was.
    Sounds like coupled to an ignition timing issue. That engine is leaning and I wouldn't be surprised if the piston crown is pitted by now. See it on 2 strokes and nitro all the time.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Kernersville, NC
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    69
    My Cars
    1997 325iC
    Today I used a little WD40 to look for leaks on intake manifold and vacum hoses around throttle body. Couldnt really find anything. Cleaned the ICV, it was dirty but rattled like I guess its suppose to and buzzes when the ignition is on.

    Still idles poorly at about 1000rpm with throttle held cracked with wire and the AFM is so loosened up, it gets enough fuel to run rich enough to no longer make the exhaust glow, but the mixture has to be way off I'm sure. Wont make it to 1500 rpms without cutting out.

    The "CHECK light on the dash flashes steady continously while the ignition is on, or the engine is running. I got a Peak Research code tool from my brother in law, and the only code it gave was a "0A Emission Control". I understand this is a result of an improper fuel/air ratio.I reset the insp & oil change lights and cleared the codes, but "CHECK" light still flashes. I believe we've established its very lean. Well we know thats whats going on , but does anyone have any ideas what to check next or why?

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    367
    My Cars
    2002 BMW 540i
    Following this thread out of curiosity.

    I am not implying that this is related in any way, jsut curious how hot the cooling system is while it's running and the headers are glowing.

    I would love to see a vid of this.


  10. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Gridley, CA, US
    Posts
    44
    My Cars
    1989 M3, 1989 325i, 1995 e34 540i

    Is the CAT Red Also?

    If it is then there is your problem.

    Let me guess, little to no power correct!

    I agree with the earlier person who said it was the cat--hope this helps!!

    Mike

    If it did, then I would start there.

    As some of the others have posted-sure there may be something else also, but if the cat is plugged it will cause ALL kinds of issues.

    Hope this helps

    Mike
    Last edited by e30maniac; 02-10-2011 at 07:51 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Kernersville, NC
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    1997 325iC
    Engine temp is off the peg no where near hot. It has only ran about5-10 minutes at a time at 1000 rpm.
    Cat is not obstructed, exhaust is wide open.
    It is a lean condition. Thanks for your suggestions.
    Last edited by zzbearcat; 02-10-2011 at 08:11 PM.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Elm Grove Farm, NC
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    too many
    Not sure why you're convinced it's a lean condition.

    You said black smoke out the tailpipe, right?

    Also, red hot exhaust manifold is likely from too much unburnt fuel.



    See if you can start the car, then operate the throttle body (butterfly) with one hand and the AFM flapper door with the other hand (it does not need to be connected with the rubber intake boot, but it DOES need to be connected to the electrical plug.

    Try small movements of each, opening them a little at a time, and see if you can get it to idle smoothly, then try to see if you can get it to run smoothly (and without the red-hot exhaust) at a slightly higher RPM, etc etc.


    This may not pinpoint where the problem is, but it should help you determine whether or not you can get the car to run smoothly without any major mechanical repair.


    Do you have a Bentley manual for the car?? They've got a TON of good diagnostic info- specs on resistance, etc for various electrical components.
    Last edited by Rigmaster; 02-10-2011 at 10:24 PM.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    MYRTLE BCH SC
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    86 porsche 930, 88 325is
    outside of an air leak, think about what else would make the mixture lean, or for that matter rich. you have a temp sensor that tells the DME engine temp, and past 4500 rpm, that is used to control the mixture along with engine speed, you have a TPS that has 3 different operating conditions, idle, mid rpm and WOT and you have an AFM that measures the amount of air coming in and the temp of the air.
    then you have the wiring from each of the devices to the DME. you have changed the DME, the AFM and checked the operation of the TPS and i assume the engines temp sensor, the correct one i hope. i would start looking at the wiring and check connectors for bent or corroded pins. dont forget C191, your engine temp runs through that one. corrsion on a pin to something like the AFM will change the resistance and change the signal to the DME.
    what i would do is have someone short pins 7 and 12 at the DME then measure the resistance at the AFm connector on pin 2 and 3. then i would do the same for the rest of the wires, just use one to loop the other back. carefull not to mess up the pins. then i would check wiring at the TPS and the temp sensor. i would also check to make sure they are not shorted to each other or to ground.



    advanced timing? the DME contrls that, so the only way that could be off is if the CPS is physically in the wrong place.
    [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING: 86 PORSCHE 930
    [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING: 88 BMW 325is 200K+
    [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING: 2000 MERCEDES E320 WAGON
    [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:99 GRAND CHEROKEE 160K::
    [_:_] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING: mazda B2200

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    ATL HO
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    1992 BMW 525i
    UN BOLT THE CATS!!!!!
    Report back.
    That is all.
    * Discounted Price * Style 8 Wheels, Brembo Rotors, Stainless Brake Lines ETC. For Sale All New.
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...1#post21382181

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Ft Wayne IN 46825
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    64
    My Cars
    1987 325 528e & 735i
    Unplug the O2 sensor and see if it runs better. When things where glowing I am sure it was damaged.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Kernersville, NC
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    69
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    1997 325iC
    -exhaust is wide open
    -unplugged the O2 sensor
    no change

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Raleigh,NC
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    67
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    1989 325i
    I know this is old....but....any update?

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Kernersville, NC
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    69
    My Cars
    1997 325iC
    Yes. I can appreciate a resolution being posted, but I guess I got caught up in other aspects of the car.
    Heres what happened:
    The balancer on the front of the motor did not come apart, but the toothed ring that the position sensor reads slipped behind to the point the engine would no longer run. The pulleys bolted to the front held it all together. It stayed together after it was pulled off. I replaced it with another and she fired right up. I picked up on this by looking at some photos of setting the engine on TDC. I noticed the missing teeth on my balancer and pictures of other engine balancers were different in regard to the location of the TDC mark and the missing teeth on the toothed ring.
    Sadly, just this last week or so, I have developed a knock I believe to be coming from high in the engine, seems like the head. Im pulling the head as soon as I can get the exhaust bolts off so I can pull the head off.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Raleigh,NC
    Posts
    67
    My Cars
    1989 325i
    Thanks for the update. Good luck with knock!

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