Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 68

Thread: E36 with E46 fender flares --

  1. #26
    Fair's Avatar
    Fair is offline Senior Member Supporting Vendor
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    3,634
    My Cars
    E36 M3, E36 LS1, E30 318
    Quote Originally Posted by lowside67 View Post
    They are saying that a good percentage of the labour to do the flares the "right" way (for lack of a better descriptor) is the labour to deal cut the rear fenders higher since it is a real mess back there - multiple layers of steel, and it is structural so it is important it gets done right. You cannot accomplish the rear with just a sawsall, you need to re-weld.
    Agreed.



    The bulk of all (proper) flare work is tied up in clearancing the rear unibody and fenders for the tires at full bump travel, correctly. And tying the now cut apart fender to the inner layer(s) of unibody sheet metal, to restore the structure. You can see what we're talking about in the two pictures above. Installing the actual "flare" sections, to cover up all of this clearance work underneath, is the "easy" part.

    I've got galleries of pictures covering steel flare grafting on 4 different cars now, with 3 of them uses the cheap E46 non-M fenders. I only used E46 M3 flares on my E46 330, since they essentially bolted on the front (I had to modify them for rules purposes).




    I've got a couple more E46 M3 fenders stashed away (CraigsList finds) for the next project. Might do the rears on the 330 before it gets painted.

    Good luck,
    Terry Fair @ Vorshlag Motorsports

  2. #27
    joenationwide's Avatar
    joenationwide is offline Makes Cars Dance BMW E36 M3 Expert
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Leesburg, Virginia
    Posts
    4,210
    My Cars
    95 M3 (GTS2), 99 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by ClayMan View Post
    You do with 18x9.5 ET35, which is what I'm running.

    I forgot to mention my other motivation is that my quarters are rusting in that area, so they would have to be chopped off for new metal anyway.. Seemed like a perfect excuse to do a subtle OEM-looking widebody
    Not necessarily. I ran 17x9 et45 SSRs with 275/40/17 Hoosiers with a very mild flare (done with a roller). I also ran a 5mm spacer.

    I calculate your wheel sticking out an extra 11.35mm farther than my wheel, but your tire will not be as wide as mine. Just saying, you may be able to make it work. A big fender flare will also swallow the setup you describe. Either way, good luck!

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA
    Posts
    6,519
    My Cars
    97 S54,94 M-Technic,SE36
    I would love to have these fenders on my car! Thats how the e36 should have came

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    172
    My Cars
    993, E36 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by Fair View Post
    Agreed.

    The bulk of all (proper) flare work is tied up in clearancing the rear unibody and fenders for the tires at full bump travel, correctly. And tying the now cut apart fender to the inner layer(s) of unibody sheet metal, to restore the structure. You can see what we're talking about in the two pictures above. Installing the actual "flare" sections, to cover up all of this clearance work underneath, is the "easy" part...
    Thanks everyone for the explanation.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    6,091
    My Cars
    S13, Turbo M3
    Quote Originally Posted by ClayMan View Post
    You do with 18x9.5 ET35, which is what I'm running.

    I forgot to mention my other motivation is that my quarters are rusting in that area, so they would have to be chopped off for new metal anyway.. Seemed like a perfect excuse to do a subtle OEM-looking widebody
    I already run that size on stock fenders. Flares would look silly with a such a small wheel/tire.

    -Mike
    IG: @mikevanshellenbeck

  6. #31
    Fair's Avatar
    Fair is offline Senior Member Supporting Vendor
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    3,634
    My Cars
    E36 M3, E36 LS1, E30 318
    I forgot to mention these two conditions before:

    1. Flares are what racers use that need more tire width (and/or height), and need to cover up the clearancing work they had to perform to fit them.
    2. Hardparkers use flares or widebody kits for "the wide look". They can sometimes be content use tiny 225mm tires so long as its "stretched, poked and tucked".
    Totally different needs and requirements between these two groups. What I am describing with the flare methods above applies to racers - this being the "Track" section of Bimmerforums and all.

    I'm not hatin' on the hard-parkers, that's just not the crowd we sell to or race with. I simply don't understand what motivates that movement, and "the look" seems to change almost annually (Altezza lights, murdered out, tuck/poke, angel eyes, stance/VIP, etc). Its as close to alien to me as anything else in the fringes of the automotive realm. :

    Moving on...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeE36 View Post
    I already run that size on stock fenders. Flares would look silly with a such a small wheel/tire.

    -Mike
    Well... you might have that same 9.5" wide wheel under stock E36 fenders, but likely not with the same ET35 offset (which I would argue is the wrong offset for an E36 in that wheel width - it might barely fit the front with a 5mm spacer, but not the back, without flares). ET35 on a 9.5" wheel works out to a 6.6" backspacing, which is about 1/4" too shallow... we ran a 6.9" backspacing on our 17x9.5" wheel and used a 15mm spacer up front. This backspacing tucked the rear wheel inboard .3" more than the ET35 would, which barely fit the E36 rear confines, both inboard and outboard. That was closer to a ET45 offset out back and an ET30 up front (with the 15mm spacer). It was tiiiight....

    http://www.rimsntires.com/rt_specs.jsp - feel free to check my numbers



    What I'm trying to say is fitting 9.5" wide wheels on an E36 with stock fenders is by no means simple. When we ran custom CCW wheels in 17x9.5" for (at the time) Hanchey's E36 M3 (see pics above) it took a good bit of fender rolling in the rear and careful offset/spacer management to clear even 255/40/17s mounted onto those wheels (its easier to fit this tire size on a 9" wheel). The tires rubbed up front at full lock and out back at full bump, and the tires even touched inboard a tick under high g turns. But damn, did it work well for a 255 "street tire" on that wider wheel - ultra sharp turn-in, precise in slaloms, loads of grip (1.2g lateral, 1.1g braking), and it was excellent in the wet. The new Dunlop 265/40/17s would be an even better set-up with a 9.5" wheel, but tighter still.



    And the 18x10" wheel with 265mm tire set-up (above) we managed to sqeeeeeze onto this same E36 was way harder to pull off, and rubbed even worse. It was definitely a "race-only" and compromised set-up (we had to run lots of rear camber to clear the tires). If we had the choice in that class we would have run flares (and 285mm tires), definitely. The tires wouldn't have crushed the front fenders on a bumpy auto-x course, either.

    But as I've said before, my definition of "fitting" is very different than many other folks' (most of those I've seen racing with wider than 9" wheels or 255mm tires on an E36 are hidden in a cloud of tire smoke, from all of the rubbing). I'll deal with slight rubbing but not the massive tire destruction I've seen on some racer's cars. Again... there's a lot of variables that effect tire rubbing, and not all apply to each person or even to sub-groups of automotive folks. Racers tend to have a lot more tire and suspension movement with higher loads in all directions than the pure street driven car or especially the car show only crowds. Its just that simple.

    And again, I don't claim to the be all knowing E36 wheel guru, we've just tried a lot of different wheels and tire sizes on an E36 with stock fender contours, racing the same E36 M3 in the "stock contour" limited STU class for over 4 straight years. Most E36 racers are more than capable with 255mm tires and 9" wheels stuffed under stock fenders. We've just run some bigger wheels and tires (with flares) when 255mm tires were not enough to handle the power and/or the heat.



    Please just take my numbers here as "one more data set", from a racers' perspective. And, as always, be skeptical of everything you read on the interweb, even my data here. I don't believe almost anything I read on the 'net or in magazines, even when pictured in great detail, unless I can drive the car, measure everything myself, know the person closely, etc. Some people... well, some just can't accurately use a scale or a measuring tape, while others don't look for the signs of tire rubbing, and some drive so slow as to avoid any lateral movement in the tire carcass or suspension. I'm just saying... not everyone's data is using the same variables as what you'd see.

    Thanks,
    Last edited by Fair; 01-11-2011 at 08:42 PM.
    Terry Fair @ Vorshlag Motorsports

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    5,083
    My Cars
    996, 914, X5
    Quote Originally Posted by Fair View Post
    The bulk of all (proper) flare work is tied up in clearancing the rear unibody and fenders for the tires at full bump travel, correctly. And tying the now cut apart fender to the inner layer(s) of unibody sheet metal, to restore the structure. You can see what we're talking about in the two pictures above. Installing the actual "flare" sections, to cover up all of this clearance work underneath, is the "easy" part.
    agreed.
    Alex Lipowich has more photos on his website. This applies to his widebody kit, but the process is the same.
    http://www.abloriginalparts.com/pb/w..._0bf0e604.html

    TheOtherEric....I used the 240SX "flares" on my E36 sedan, but as Fair stated, the problem lies in clearing the outer unibody fenders for wider tires at full suspension compression. Without removing the outer fender structure and clearancing it, wider tires rub. This may not be such an issue for 17" wheels, but it was for 18" wheels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fair View Post
    Please just take my numbers here as "one more data set", from a racers' perspective. And, as always, be skeptical of everything you read on the interweb, even my data here. I don't believe almost anything I read on the 'net or in magazines, even when pictured in great detail, unless I can drive the car, measure everything myself, know the person closely, etc. Some people... well, some just can't accurately use a scale or a measuring tape, while others don't look for the signs of tire rubbing, and some drive so slow as to avoid any lateral movement in the tire carcass or suspension. I'm just saying... not everyone's data is using the same variables as what you'd see.

    Thanks,
    i'm always skeptical of what you post

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Anaheim Hills, CA
    Posts
    233
    My Cars
    16 M235 E-Production E36
    Here's what happened to my car in 2005 when trying to run 285/30/18 without properly clearing the rear fenders. Never had an issue after correcting it.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    6,091
    My Cars
    S13, Turbo M3
    Quote Originally Posted by Fair View Post
    Well... you might have that same 9.5" wide wheel under stock E36 fenders, but likely not with the same ET35 offset (which I would argue is the wrong offset for an E36 in that wheel width - it might barely fit the front with a 5mm spacer, but not the back, without flares). ET35 on a 9.5" wheel works out to a 6.6" backspacing, which is about 1/4" too shallow...

    Nope. I run that exact wheel size, 18x9.5 + 35 all around, and they fit with no spacers. Running 255/35/18 star-specs on very mildly-rolled stock fenders. I am currently running a 12mm front spacer, but only to clear my BBK. You just need plenty of camber, but you're going to have that anyway if you want it to corner at the auto-x or the likes.

    -Mike
    IG: @mikevanshellenbeck

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    6,091
    My Cars
    S13, Turbo M3
    Quote Originally Posted by ClayMan View Post
    Is there a thread with more details? (Pics and info about your car?)

    I was actually aiming for a similar unorthodox setup - 18x9.5 ET35 255/35-18 with no spacers all-around. I even got crash / camber bolts to reduce the kingpin inclination angle up front (serves to pull the top of the wheel away from the strut) - reduces negative camber but the camber plates get enough back for my needs. When I test-fitted the wheel with no spacers, it barely touched the PSS9 strut body (perches are out of the way). With 3mm spacers, it clears the strut fine. Haven't gotten an alignment yet but looks like front will be fully-streetable even with no rolling, as long as I have at least -2.5º of camber or so. I'm very interested in finding out more about your setup and how you fit your wheels with no spacers.

    The rear on the other hand.. It's already partially rolled back there and from the test fit, the tires practically sit on the fender even when static (ride height ~11.8"). How the heck did you do it? (How much camber and fender work?)
    Let's take it to PM's so we don't derail this thread too badly

    -Mike
    IG: @mikevanshellenbeck

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    PnW
    Posts
    398
    My Cars
    e36 m3
    Thanks everyone for the additional information that was posted in here....

    I am just trying to gather more information before starting this project to be able to take advantage of the extra grip from 285s...

    The way LowSide67's E36 handle locally at AutoX and the grip level is just mad insane compared to my 255s...just incredible

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    PnW
    Posts
    398
    My Cars
    e36 m3
    Bumping an old thread....

    It's been a while and I am ready to take on this diy project (except painting)....

    So the Certifit near me only has in-stock:

    - 1 Pair LEFT & RIGHT for 99-01 (pre-facelift) - e46 sedan
    - 1 Pair LEFT & RIGHT for 02+ (facelift) - e46 sedan

    Does anyone have a definite answer if it makes any difference to use pre-facelift VS facelift e46 sedan fenders?
    if not, I will grab both pairs, otherwise I would need to wait until they get them in stock (they cant give me an eta)

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    518
    Posts
    12,720
    My Cars
    Dicktone Limo
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Larsson View Post
    Here's what happened to my car in 2005 when trying to run 285/30/18 without properly clearing the rear fenders. Never had an issue after correcting it.
    Somehow running that tire size created the world's smallest jpeg file?

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    1,086
    My Cars
    99 M3, 98 323is
    Quote Originally Posted by IcedLemonTea View Post
    Does anyone have a definite answer if it makes any difference to use pre-facelift VS facelift e46 sedan fenders?
    if not, I will grab both pairs, otherwise I would need to wait until they get them in stock (they cant give me an eta)
    Definitive answer, no. But I'd assume that the facelift has to do more with where the fender lines up with the front bumper / headlight housing. Body lines and such. The part you plan on cutting off is probably the same.

    Even if it is not, one pair for the back should need less of the arc than the ones in the front, and I can't imagine that it won't work somehow.

    YMMV, but that is my gut instinct on that.

    [Ethan "if it weren't for that cone" Connor|323is #89DSP]

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    cali
    Posts
    2,458
    My Cars
    bmw e30 widebody
    We have a new option instead of blending in and welding e46 flares Rear fender flares are being made right now...

    http://dtmfiberwerkz.com/access/styl...ers-p-537.html
    www.ESMWheels.com
    www.DTMFiberWerkz.com

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    PnW
    Posts
    398
    My Cars
    e36 m3
    any pictures of them on a car with 18x10/285s?

    Looks good but FRP, kinda of risky if tire/wheel fitment is really close to the fender....

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    890
    My Cars
    M3/28is
    How many mm of clearance do the non-M E46 fenders buy you, really? And what about the M3 E46 ones?

    For selfish reasons, let's talk about the rear (because that's what I'm looking to do myself) but any measurements / data available would be great!

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    jacksonville, fl
    Posts
    2,229
    My Cars
    e36 m3 Ls2, 318I, 325is
    Quote Originally Posted by IcedLemonTea View Post
    any pictures of them on a car with 18x10/285s?

    Looks good but FRP, kinda of risky if tire/wheel fitment is really close to the fender....
    please post lots of pictures when you get started, this will be my project

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Anaheim Hills, CA
    Posts
    233
    My Cars
    16 M235 E-Production E36
    Quote Originally Posted by ClayMan View Post
    How many mm of clearance do the non-M E46 fenders buy you, really? And what about the M3 E46 ones?

    For selfish reasons, let's talk about the rear (because that's what I'm looking to do myself) but any measurements / data available would be great!
    With the non M E46 flares on the rear, I can fit a 23.5/11/16 Hoosier R75 with room left. I used to run a 285/30/18 Hoosier A6 on a 18x10.5 with room left. I'm sure I could fit a 12" slick or a 315 R-comp tire.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    890
    My Cars
    M3/28is
    Quote Originally Posted by Fair View Post


    The bulk of all (proper) flare work is tied up in clearancing the rear unibody and fenders for the tires at full bump travel, correctly. And tying the now cut apart fender to the inner layer(s) of unibody sheet metal, to restore the structure. You can see what we're talking about in the two pictures above. Installing the actual "flare" sections, to cover up all of this clearance work underneath, is the "easy" part.
    Hey Terry, what exactly is the "right" thing to do with the split open layers of unibody? Do you beat on the inner layer(s) of metal until it meets the cut-up quarter panel (outer layer), weld them back together, AND THEN add the new fender flare on top of that? Such that the new flare is entirely single-layer only?

    Also, have you rolled a grafted fender like this? Does it still roll properly, or does the flare bend / break apart at the weld seams?

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Spokane, Wa
    Posts
    1,718
    My Cars
    '97 M3/2/6 '01 996tt
    We have done the 330i flares on our street car and have a rivet on version coming out this week

    http://www.hardmotorsport.com http://Facebook.com/HardMotorsport

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Spokane, Wa
    Posts
    1,718
    My Cars
    '97 M3/2/6 '01 996tt
    Rivet on 330i flares








    Our street car we pulled the molds from








    Last edited by ahardm3; 05-09-2012 at 08:35 AM.
    http://www.hardmotorsport.com http://Facebook.com/HardMotorsport

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Northern KY / Cincinnati
    Posts
    2,662
    My Cars
    e36 Track Car
    Nice work! I have a few dumb questions for you...
    If I wanted to add flares to a racecar, definitely not a show car there is a decent amount of sheetmetal trimming and welding to prepare for any flare, THEN I would have the choice of either adding the rivet on fender or the steel re-pops. What are the advantages of the rivet on fender, is it just than I don't have to bondo, sand, paint like I do with the steel application? See my point? The steel pieces are so cheap, but there is more labor involved with the final steps of the install... Help me understand, thanks, Nate.
    Last edited by TOOLEAN; 05-08-2012 at 03:04 PM.
    Regards, Nate.
    www.DriveFasterNow.com

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    890
    My Cars
    M3/28is
    For anyone considering this, I am in the middle of this "mod" and have come to the realization that the shape of the E46 front fender flare does not quite match that of the E36's original rear wheel opening, which means you end up with some combination / compromise of the following:

    -new flare doesn't line up with existing bumper (even if bumper is stretched / widened)
    -new flare doesn't line up with existing side molding (even if it's bent outwards)
    -new wheel opening is higher than the original (increased tire to fender gap)
    -the center of the wheel opening (its highest point) is shifted one way or the other (fore or aft)

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Spokane, Wa
    Posts
    1,718
    My Cars
    '97 M3/2/6 '01 996tt
    Quote Originally Posted by TOOLEAN View Post
    Nice work! I have a few dumb questions for you...
    If I wanted to add flares to a racecar, definitely not a show car there is a decent amount of sheetmetal trimming and welding to prepare for any flare, THEN I would have the choice of either adding the rivet on fender or the steel re-pops. What are the advantages of the rivet on fender, is it just than I don't have to bondo, sand, paint like I do with the steel application? See my point? The steel pieces are so cheap, but there is more labor involved with the final steps of the install... Help me understand, thanks, Nate.
    There is no way you will be able to take a steel repop and just rivet it on. It is actually a lot of work to fit them properly especially when it comes to making the moldings work (that is if you choose to keep the moulding and not cut them or cover them up).

    Quote Originally Posted by ClayMan View Post
    For anyone considering this, I am in the middle of this "mod" and have come to the realization that the shape of the E46 front fender flare does not quite match that of the E36's original rear wheel opening, which means you end up with some combination / compromise of the following:

    -new flare doesn't line up with existing bumper (even if bumper is stretched / widened)
    -new flare doesn't line up with existing side molding (even if it's bent outwards)
    -new wheel opening is higher than the original (increased tire to fender gap)
    -the center of the wheel opening (its highest point) is shifted one way or the other (fore or aft)
    All of this very true!
    Last edited by ahardm3; 05-09-2012 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    http://www.hardmotorsport.com http://Facebook.com/HardMotorsport

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •