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Thread: E46 M3 - GTS3 Build

  1. #101
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    CO, USA
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    2004 M3
    Yesterday was Dyno day at MAC Autosport in Parker for the local NASA GTS crew, i was reaaaaally hoping for low numbers (ironically) just because i really like the way the car feels right now, and i don't like the idea of adding ballast. For me good numbers would have been 290 WHP or below.

    Well, that didn't happen, car pulled 301 WHP... shiiiiit, weighed in at 3,112 with me in it + 1/3 tank gas... double shiiiit, i have to add ~200 lbs... triple shiiiit.



    Videos:
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coz8wZE80KY[/ame]
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHJyfuYPwUU[/ame]

    So now i have to decide whether i want to add that ballast or if i want to class-up from GTS3 to GTS4.

    For those that don't know... GTS is based on power to weight:
    GTS3's ratio is 11:1 so at 301 WHP i need to be 3,311 lbs
    GTS4's ratio is 8.5:1, 301 WHP means 2,559 lbs or at 3,100 lbs i need 365 WHP to be competitive.

    these weights are 'competition weight', meaning "as weighed at the end of a race, with driver, with onboard/remaining fuel, etc".

    FWIW, i do not think it is possible to strip another 650 lbs out of the car... so i'm either finding more power AND dropping some weight, or just have a car that is non-competitive at the National level. Maybe i need to see what i can do to detune... decision to happen very soon as first race is only 2 weeks away.
    Last edited by delirium45; 04-03-2011 at 09:32 PM.
    _ Garrett

    2011 Rocky Mountain Region GTS4 champion & "Rookie of the Year"
    Thanks Sponsors: SCR Performance & Built-by-Bones

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    06 GTO, e36 race car
    It would be much easier to put a restrictor plate into the intake. I assume you can buy a restrictor kit, but they're easy enough to make - I made one from 1/10" lexan with a hole saw and the hole size can be quickly fine-tuned by hand at the dyno shop with this dremel tool: http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Attachme...l.aspx?pid=115

    But that engine has a drive-by-wire throttle doesn't it? If so, get your tuner to limit the throttle angle above 6900 RPM. That way you get a flatter power curve and you win.

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Menlo Park, CA
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    1,796
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    95 M3 & Legacy Manwagon
    Call up Bimmerworld. They sell Epic Motorsports software, and from what I hear, will work with you to get the tune the way you want (i.e. yay torque boo hp). Better than a restrictor plate IMO.
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

    1995 BMW M3/2/5-- S54 + Mk60 DSC, California Smog Legal (Build Thread)
    1998 BMW M3/4/5 Alpine/Modena, Z3 Rack, otherwise stock-- DD without burbles
    2017 Chevy SS, Orange Blast Metallic, 6MT -- DD with burbles

  4. #104
    Join Date
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    06 GTO, e36 race car
    Tuning would provide the better result. But with two weeks to go, I'd run down to the hardware store, buy a sheet of lexan, cut out a few plates (some 10% smaller area, maybe one 20% smaller just in case), get that dremel tool then book a couple of hours of dyno time. Write down the peak-hp-vs-hole-diameter table as testing proceeds. Five or six runs and it's done.

    Longer-term, look into doing it with a tune and picking up a little more area under the curve.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Boulder, CO
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    95 Avus M3
    Amazing build and beautiful car. Subscribed.
    -Clark
    2001 4Runner (DD)
    95 Avus M3 (Track Car in Progress)

  6. #106
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    May 2006
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    ???
    Nice build.

    Just FYI, looking at the pics on pg4 all of your star specs, which are directional, are mounted backwards... just letting you know

    AK

  7. #107
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    Jul 2006
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    CO, USA
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    2004 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessPH View Post
    Nice build.

    Just FYI, looking at the pics on pg4 all of your star specs, which are directional, are mounted backwards... just letting you know

    AK

    yup, i do that occasionally as some of the tracks here favor one side vs the other, so i get more even wear. with the star specs you really don't notice much difference unless it is wet out, then the grooves matter.
    _ Garrett

    2011 Rocky Mountain Region GTS4 champion & "Rookie of the Year"
    Thanks Sponsors: SCR Performance & Built-by-Bones

  8. #108
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    Dec 2002
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    Silver Spring, MD
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    #199 IP BMWCCA
    Garrett, did you ever figure out your detune?
    Eric WONGer
    2012 NASA Nationals GTS3 First Loser
    EX-#121 IP/GTS3 M3 SOLD
    Now-#121 GTS3 E46 M3

  9. #109
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    Jul 2006
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    2004 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by magnetic1 View Post
    Garrett, did you ever figure out your detune?
    clearly not
    i may end up just running GTS4 in non-competitive trim this first year... maybe just first race... sadly i don't have a lot of time to make a good decision.
    _ Garrett

    2011 Rocky Mountain Region GTS4 champion & "Rookie of the Year"
    Thanks Sponsors: SCR Performance & Built-by-Bones

  10. #110
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    Jun 2009
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    Vienna, VA
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    Black E46 M3 #72
    3300lbs isn't THAT bad - Josh Smith ran the 300/3300lb config all year last year and put down some seriously competitive times.

    It will partially depend on the types of tracks you'll be running. A 300/3300lb car on short twisty tracks will get crushed by a lighter weight car, but on a longer/faster hp track the the extra ballast won't hurt and you'll enjoy pulling the lower hp cars down the long straights.

    The sweet setup IMHO is a 2 or 3 detune tier setup, 280/3080 (detune no ballast) for the short twisty tracks and a 290/3190 or 300/3300 (hp up, ballast up) setup for the hp tracks.

    Unfortunately, w/out going aftermarket fully tuneable ECU/DME there aren't any publicly know solutions to allow selectable hp detunes like that today.

    Kyle

  11. #111
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    Jul 2006
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    CO, USA
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    2004 M3
    first official race this coming weekend.
    i'll be running a 10.1 ratio GTS4 car (ie: not competitive at all), but i probably just need to learn right now anyway and not worry about having competitive car.
    _ Garrett

    2011 Rocky Mountain Region GTS4 champion & "Rookie of the Year"
    Thanks Sponsors: SCR Performance & Built-by-Bones

  12. #112
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    CO, USA
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    Last month at Highplains Raceway i completed my competition school, making this past weekend at Pike Peak my first 'real' race weekend. As a rookie you need to concentrate on being safe and aware, ie: don't miss any flags and don't hit anyone or anything. This was also my first time running PPIR in CCW configuration, so it was also a 'learn the track' event for me... not ideal.

    There was a lapping day on Friday before the event, but i could not take time off from work to make it down there in time, but i did pack up and head down on Friday, arriving at the track around 6PM; dropped the car off in my garage spot and unloaded some of my support 'stuff' before heading to the hotel.

    Rig ready to head out:


    Gotta love the garages at PPIR:


    Saturday morning came quickly and i arrived at the track at 730 to prep for my 830 warm-up session with the other GTS and AI cars. I went out behind the other lone GTS4 car and he showed me what he learned the previous day for lines, so that helped jump start, but the banking at PPIR is still scary. For those that don't know PPIR runs the 'roval', which comprises 2/3 of the banked oval track and entire infield course, and it is a short track, the fast guys turn it in 1:02. After a bunch of laps i was able to get my times down to 1:05.5 in the cooler-temp, traffic-free warm-up session.

    Next session of the day was the qualifier, 20 minutes of essentially Time Trials, grid position for the race is based on your fastest lap during the session. I qualified in 5th (i believe) of 12 competitors (GTS2, GTS4, AI, SpecM3), this was a really low turn-out event for race cars. I started to notice that as the day warmed up and the laps piled on, that my tires were getting really greasy. What was happening is after holding on at speed in the banked turn the right side tires got really hot, and there wasn't much time to cool them before you were cutting through the infield hairpin, carousel and esses. This meant i had to work hard at tire/heat management, which essentially became a smooth and consistent battle with where i wanted to be and where i ended up. This was, of course, a product of a bad choice, and ultimate a critical one... i was running on the Dunlops, while they are an excellent compromise track-day tire and autox street tire, they are not up to the long duration and high-heat of racing, at least not at this track. Plus all of my competition were on either DOT-Hoosiers or Hoosier slicks... so my fall-off point came way sooner.

    That's pretty much how my two races on Saturday went; manage tires, defend position and keep it clean.
    Considering that my #1 goal for the weekend was to bring the car home in the same condition it left, that was a complete success. Second goal was a mix of two things: learn the track & get better at 'race craft'... i think i did both of these, however, my race craft needs more work, i let by a car on the inside of the braking zone coming off of the high-speed banking twice, albeit because i couldn't turn in as well as he could, should have played a bit better defense.

    I finished pretty much where i started during these two races, mid-pack. On Sunday though, i had resigned myself to just continuing to learn and survive, hah. i managed to do this while getting tire management up from 5 laps to 14 laps before greasiness set in, while maintaining my same pace. I also managed to grid in 7th for the final race, and finish in 4th, not too bad, but this just really means that no GTS2 or SpecM3's finished ahead of me... oh well. I take it all as a humble learning experience.

    In the end i did finish all four races clean, so i got signed off for all of them, meaning my rookie requirements are fulfilled, so now i can apply for my regular competition license. Plus it was great that my wife and step-daughter came out to watch on Sunday, so i had my own, very small, cheering section.

    Photos courtesy of my wife:






    I have in-car video that i'll add soon.
    _ Garrett

    2011 Rocky Mountain Region GTS4 champion & "Rookie of the Year"
    Thanks Sponsors: SCR Performance & Built-by-Bones

  13. #113
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    95 Avus M3
    Sounds like a good weekend. Keep us posted.
    -Clark
    2001 4Runner (DD)
    95 Avus M3 (Track Car in Progress)

  14. #114
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    Aug 2007
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    machesney park,il
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    2002 330ci, 87 325es,
    sorry one question, what wheels are on your car?

  15. #115
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    CO, USA
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    2004 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by euroman View Post
    sorry one question, what wheels are on your car?
    these:
    http://www.apexraceparts.com/ARC-8-1...heel_p_55.html
    _ Garrett

    2011 Rocky Mountain Region GTS4 champion & "Rookie of the Year"
    Thanks Sponsors: SCR Performance & Built-by-Bones

  16. #116
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    Jul 2006
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    CO, USA
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    2004 M3
    I have been battling with heating issues on and off as i seem to run the car harder and harder, well, i finally made the decision to replace the heat exchangers, these original equipment pieces have served well for their time but are not up to the task of long racing sessions, plus having to watch gauges during a heated battle is not going to give you the edge you need.

    At PPIR last weekend both oil & water temps rose beyond the center position, approaching the 3/4 dot on the OEM gauges, i was able to easily bring water back to center by turning the heater on full hot. This bandaid does not help with endurance on my part as a hot car is more difficult to stay focused in, and this wasn't even that hot of weather (i think the hottest it got was 72*F ambient air temp).

    Here are the fresh parts from Bimmerworld and C&R Racing, direct OEM fitment with increased capacity (and no plastic):

    Dual pass oil cooler:


    Aluminum radiator (25% more cooling):


    while i was at it i added some new radiator hoses:


    Together i hope that my cooling issues are gone...


    i am planning on swapping this stuff in this weekend when i do my post-/pre-race work on the car.


    =====


    got a start on it tonight...

    pulled the front end of the car off (3rd time round i've got it down to ~30 mins).


    Comparing the stock and BW/C&R oil coolers:







    Comparing the stock and BW/C&R radiators:





    ====

    worked on the car a little yesterday, got the new stuff mounted up, but the temp sensor in the lower radiator hose is leaking, so i need a new one, but it looks like the oil cooler is holding oil and the radiator is good, but none of it is pressure tested just yet... not until i can get the radiator hose to stop leaking.

    _ Garrett

    2011 Rocky Mountain Region GTS4 champion & "Rookie of the Year"
    Thanks Sponsors: SCR Performance & Built-by-Bones

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Tempe, AZ
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    3,870
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    95' M3, 98' M3/4
    You should always replace the lower temp sensor with the hose - a tip from your local BMW Tech.

    The car looks great and glad everything is going very well.

  18. #118
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    CO, USA
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    new temp switch installed, no leaks on either oil or water... i'm feeling good about it now. so good i put the car back together.

    normally an oil & filter change takes 5.5Liters of oil to fill, with having drained everything out of the cooler, lines, filter housing and pan... it's looking like 7.0Liters to fill it back up... good thing i have a few cases of oil in the basement. i expect the new cooler to add about 1/2 Liter of oil to the system, in total, during normal oil & filter changes.

    one unexpected issue i have with the new oil cooler is that it is about 2 inches wider on both ends, this means that the space that i used to run my brake ducting through is gone, i have to come up with a new route. this isn't a big issue as i have wanted to 'straighten' the air path anyway; too many bends before with the flanges in the undertray and such. my only concern with a more direct route is if i will have more tire-rub on the ducting.

    also, i added some 'hardware cloth' backing to the lower bumper opening and brake ducts to help keep large debris out. i found a bunch of chunks of rubber in my front brake rotor vanes from PPIR. this was no doubt taking away from the cooling effect the vanes produce, on the upside it is good to know that the air (and everything else) is making it to the brakes even with all of those bends.

    once i get some longer sections of 3" brake duct hose and flush+bleed the brake fluid i'll road test the new system.
    _ Garrett

    2011 Rocky Mountain Region GTS4 champion & "Rookie of the Year"
    Thanks Sponsors: SCR Performance & Built-by-Bones

  19. #119
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    Mar 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
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    m3
    Quote Originally Posted by delirium45 View Post

    worked on the car a little yesterday, got the new stuff mounted up, but the temp sensor in the lower radiator hose is leaking, so i need a new one, but it looks like the oil cooler is holding oil and the radiator is good, but none of it is pressure tested just yet... not until i can get the radiator hose to stop leaking.
    When I replaced my lower hose the sensor leaked too, my quick fix was just to find a replacement O ring at the local parts store, problem solved....

  20. #120
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    yep, in hind sight i could have just taken a trip to ACE hardware and replaced the o-ring.
    _ Garrett

    2011 Rocky Mountain Region GTS4 champion & "Rookie of the Year"
    Thanks Sponsors: SCR Performance & Built-by-Bones

  21. #121
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    Aug 2006
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    ca
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    a lot
    Quote Originally Posted by nocab72 View Post

    Unfortunately, w/out going aftermarket fully tuneable ECU/DME there aren't any publicly know solutions to allow selectable hp detunes like that today.
    super nice build!!!!

    selectable is the key. maybe you can buy an extra ecu and switch them.

    i have the software to calibrate for years, just don't have the time.

  22. #122
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    Jul 2006
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    CO, USA
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    2004 M3
    had a great weekend, finished all four races with steady improvements and managed a new personal best time for the track.

    i think i put the new heat exchangers to the test this weekend and am happy to report that they were solid the whole time through.
    both the C&R / Bimmerworld radiator and oil cooler never budged.
    on stock gauges the water was dead center all weekend and the oil stayed half-way between center and 3/4 dot, both perfect !

    not having to watch gauges and feeling confident in wringing out the S54 is what i wanted, and i now have that, i am very pleased.

    now that i have all of that under control i will be looking at detuning the motor about 10whp so that it is a GTS3 car, it's about 500 lbs to heavy or 55 whp too weak to be competitive in GTS4, which isn't surprising since i set out to build a GTS3 car...

    also, i would like to change up the suspension, now that i'm running race rubber and really pushing this car, i'd like to get some more spring rate under it and i've got these TCK D/A's maxed with the 700# rear springs... i'm thinking AST or JRZ right now. but that decision will have to wait for the budget to recover.
    _ Garrett

    2011 Rocky Mountain Region GTS4 champion & "Rookie of the Year"
    Thanks Sponsors: SCR Performance & Built-by-Bones

  23. #123
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    CO, USA
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    2004 M3
    After a month-plus of waiting, i was able to acquire a set of Moton CS doubles.


    It included GC race camber plates, GC rear weight jacks and springs.
    the springs included were H&R 120.60.120 (R) & 120.60.110 (F).
    that equals out to something like 4.72inch-free-lenght - 60mmID - 685# on the rear and same but 628# on the front

    For reference, previously i was running 650# front and 700# rear.

    Sadly the front rides too low and the springs are too soft, so i'm going to order some slightly longer springs (5") and higher rates.
    i'm thinking 750#F & 900#R as i was getting a lot more compression/roll with the wider/stickier tires last event.
    that's a 15% increase in the front and a ~14% increase in the rear (estimating a wheel-rate of 1:2)

    Couple of pictures i took today during daylight, as the lighting wasn't that great in the garage by the time i finished last night.

    Not a lot of good places to mount the canisters in the engine-bay that isn't hear a heat source... these are zip-tied to the radiator/hood support member:




    Rear was easier to find a place to mount, but routing the canisters from the wheel-well to the trunk required removing fender liners, routing through the air ducts and trimming them to fit back in:






    Once i get the new springs installed i'll take it in for a corner balance and alignment... then back to the track to dial things in.
    _ Garrett

    2011 Rocky Mountain Region GTS4 champion & "Rookie of the Year"
    Thanks Sponsors: SCR Performance & Built-by-Bones

  24. #124
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Cliffside Park, NJ
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    2003 M3
    wow love your moton set up.

    you should consider that gold thermal wrap that bimmerworld sells. will keep the internal canister temps down.

    also, some guys mounted the canisters behind the bumper, but i fear going off hitting a tire wall and destroying ur front bumper AND ur suspension.
    Last edited by PSangavaramM3; 07-16-2011 at 10:25 PM.

  25. #125
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    CO, USA
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    yep, i've seen those bumper mounted solutions, and i considered it, but didn't want anything forward of the bumper beam that i really cared about...

    also, after some discussion, it looks like the spring numbers i was targeting need some further consideration... looking at 800F/900R right now.
    _ Garrett

    2011 Rocky Mountain Region GTS4 champion & "Rookie of the Year"
    Thanks Sponsors: SCR Performance & Built-by-Bones

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