BMW M3 1995 OBD1 vs 96-99 OBD2 Noob Question

[Bimmernovice]

Prolly addressed a gazillion times, but I'm buying a 95 and I've heard that it is the year to buy because it has OBD1. What is the difference between OBD1 and OBD2 that would make the OBD1 system better? I also heard that you can get better performance with OBD1. How much better in terms of HP per dollar would it gain over OBD2? Thanks in advance!

[ThreeD]

OBD1 S50 responds better to basic mods like intake/exhaust than OBD2. I think a S52 OBD2 with M50 manifold/euro HFM /intake/exhaust/tune makes more power than a S50 with euro HFM/intake/exhaust/chip. Check the official dyno sheet thread though. OBD2 will have more emissions control devices as well, such as a secondary air pump and more O2 sensors.

I had another question about OBD1 vs OBD2 though...

How easy is it to diagnose problems with an OBD1 car vs an OBD2 car? I'm planning on checking out a 95 E36 M3 this weekend, and coming from all OBD2 cars which are easy to diagnose with the OBD2 port, I'm a little iffy about OBD1. I understand that you can do the pedal stomp trick to read out codes, but how comprehensive are these codes compared to OBD2 codes?

[Lawrence1]

obviously OBD II has more monitoring sensors so with that you gain the ability to easier pinpoint issues. You will also get more issues though due to those added systems that OBD I cars dont have(i,e. air pump, EVAP system monitoring, 4 x O2 sensors vs. 1 on OBD I, etc).

OBD I cars are still fairly decent as far as diagnostics go ... the check engine light will still illuminate for major issues.

honestly, i think the OBD I vs. OBD II debate is now obsolete(or should be). I've had both OBD II M3s and now have a 95 M3. I like the 96+ for the better motor(more torque, yes you can feel a difference) and 3.23 diff vs 3.15 on the '95. I like the increased power potential from the S52 motor, even though the S50 is easier to mod(or so they say). The interior has nicer amenities on the newer cars like digital climate control for example. The 95 is easier to smog in CA when modded as it doesn't get connected to the SMOG machine.

All in all my advice to you is to buy the best maintained car you can afford and spend money on getting every piece of maintenance done BEFORE modding or else these cars will eat you/your wallet alive.

[RRSperry]

Beating a dead horse...

About the only advantage of 1 vs 2 is the ability to tune by just changing chips in the ECU vs having to flash with a tool, or send the ECU out.

The S52 is bigger, (slightly) and will make a bit more power. (about 10 hp and tq) but it's not astoundingly so... THe S50 revs better, (IMO), because of the the better bore/stroke ratio. Just the nature of the design. Again it's not major, but it is noticeable.

OBD1 is stupidly simple. Stomp the pedal, look at the light, count the flashes, look up the code in the Bentley Repair manual. done. They are the BMW codes.

Hp/$ is horrible with either engine. This ain't no Honda... (for better or worse)

As has been said, buy the best car you can find. Figure an E36 M3 (natural aspiration) is going to cost $10-12K. You can buy a cheap one, but it's going to need a lot of work to make it actually right. or you can pay for one that is right, but you pay upfront.

It's getting to the point where I think if you can't afford to buy the car twice, you probably shouldn't own an old German Sports coupe. If you don't do MOST of your own work on the car, and have real tools, you shouldn't own one.

Do not expect to be able to just drive it and do oil changes, and have the car run forever. It just isn't going to happen. Again, this ain't no Honda... (for better or worse)

[bmdubbayoo]

Beating a dead horse...

About the only advantage of 1 vs 2 is the ability to tune by just changing chips in the ECU vs having to flash with a tool, or send the ECU out.

The S52 is bigger, (slightly) and will make a bit more power. (about 10 hp and tq) but it's not astoundingly so... THe S50 revs better, (IMO), because of the the better bore/stroke ratio. Just the nature of the design. Again it's not major, but it is noticeable.

OBD1 is stupidly simple. Stomp the pedal, look at the light, count the flashes, look up the code in the Bentley Repair manual. done. They are the BMW codes.

Hp/$ is horrible with either engine. This ain't no Honda... (for better or worse)

As has been said, buy the best car you can find. Figure an E36 M3 (natural aspiration) is going to cost $10-12K. You can buy a cheap one, but it's going to need a lot of work to make it actually right. or you can pay for one that is right, but you pay upfront.

It's getting to the point where I think if you can't afford to buy the car twice, you probably shouldn't own an old German Sports coupe. If you don't do MOST of your own work on the car, and have real tools, you shouldn't own one.

Do not expect to be able to just drive it and do oil changes, and have the car run forever. It just isn't going to happen. Again, this ain't no Honda... (for better or worse)

well put...couldn't have said it any better...

[Bimmernovice]

What is the best mod bang for the buck? I see on the Dinan site that the chip for a 95 is only $199 with a modest increase in HP and torque. But the cold air intake for same is $449!

[blak blur]

What is the best mod bang for the buck? I see on the Dinan site that the chip for a 95 is only $199 with a modest increase in HP and torque. But the cold air intake for same is $449!

M50 manifold and an X-brace.

[Volf]

What is the best mod bang for the buck? I see on the Dinan site that the chip for a 95 is only $199 with a modest increase in HP and torque. But the cold air intake for same is $449!

Supercharger or turbo kit is your best bang for the dollar.

[shaeff]

M50 manifold and an X-brace.

He has a '95, so he's already got the M50 manifold. X-brace is a good one, though.

Honestly, don't mod ANYTHING unless you're replacing old worn out stuff. And before you buy, research on what you're replacing. Don't just "upgrade" it because it's cheaper and not stock. Upgrade wisely. For many things, OEM stuff is best.

Maintenance > everything else. Always. Without a properly maintained car, you're not going anywhere fast. (at least not for long)

[AlexeyM3]

Sorry for thread high-jacking and a noob question, but what does OBD stand for? If I have a 97 USA M3, does it mean I have a OBD2?

[Volf]

Sorry for thread high-jacking and a noob question, but what does OBD stand for? If I have a 97 USA M3, does it mean I have a OBD2?

Yes you have OBDII

OBD = On Board Diagnostics

[ThreeD]

He has a '95, so he's already got the M50 manifold. X-brace is a good one, though.

Honestly, don't mod ANYTHING unless you're replacing old worn out stuff. And before you buy, research on what you're replacing. Don't just "upgrade" it because it's cheaper and not stock. Upgrade wisely. For many things, OEM stuff is best.

Maintenance > everything else. Always. Without a properly maintained car, you're not going anywhere fast. (at least not for long)

+1

[blak blur]

[QUOTE=shaeff;20555388]He has a '95, so he's already got the M50 manifold. Wow...I didn't know '95s had M50 manifold. Learn every day.

[The Letter M]

Sorry for thread high-jacking and a noob question, but what does OBD stand for? If I have a 97 USA M3, does it mean I have a OBD2?

Ya know, if you just Googled OBD, you'd be able to read all about it, it's the first link that comes up.

Sometimes it is easier, quicker and more accurate to Google it than ask a question in a forum, even if you are a complete noob. There's no problem asking, but I mean, you ARE on the internet….

Just sayin'.

[idriveam3durrrr]

search button, obd1 95 easier to tune, obd2 96+ more control over tune, yellow=+60hp, techno violet=+50hp, green=-10hp

[BMWFanatic]

obd1 ftw!

[Safetywork]

search button, obd1 95 easier to tune, obd2 96+ more control over tune, yellow=+60hp, techno violet=+50hp, green=-10hp

How much + hp for Estoril?

[l1ttlej7]

OBD1 is just easier to mod and do crazy stuff to because it doesn't have to pass inspection in most states or it is much easier because of lack of emissions standards in others (ie 4xO2 sensors on OBDII vs 2x on OBDI).

And like everyone said check out the engine and suspension before you start throwing things mods at the car. Would suck to put money into it and then it blows cause it's higher milage engine...

[KnudsonsM3]

How much + hp for Estoril?

a million

[TheGoodGuy]

Beating a dead horse...

About the only advantage of 1 vs 2 is the ability to tune by just changing chips in the ECU vs having to flash with a tool, or send the ECU out.

Well said, and even that shouldn't matter anymore with all of these tuning gurus ready to hop on the obd-2 route.

The way i think about it at the end of the day, NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT. :wink

[weaksauce]

How much + hp for Estoril?

-20
if it was the REAL blue (avus) it would be +51

OBD1 is just easier to mod and do crazy stuff to because it doesn't have to pass inspection in most states or it is much easier because of lack of emissions standards in others (ie 4xO2 sensors on OBDII vs 2x on OBDI).

And like everyone said check out the engine and suspension before you start throwing things mods at the car. Would suck to put money into it and then it blows cause it's higher milage engine...

i always thought OBDI had 1 o2 sensor......

[M-technik-3]

AA stage II C38 make a nice jump.

[l1ttlej7]

Haha-ya my bad I meant 1xO2 sensor

[Slateman]

obviously OBD II has more monitoring sensors so with that you gain the ability to easier pinpoint issues. You will also get more issues though due to those added systems that OBD I cars dont have(i,e. air pump, EVAP system monitoring, 4 x O2 sensors vs. 1 on OBD I, etc).

OBD I cars are still fairly decent as far as diagnostics go ... the check engine light will still illuminate for major issues.

honestly, i think the OBD I vs. OBD II debate is now obsolete(or should be). I've had both OBD II M3s and now have a 95 M3. I like the 96+ for the better motor(more torque, yes you can feel a difference) and 3.23 diff vs 3.15 on the '95. I like the increased power potential from the S52 motor, even though the S50 is easier to mod(or so they say). The interior has nicer amenities on the newer cars like digital climate control for example. The 95 is easier to smog in CA when modded as it doesn't get connected to the SMOG machine.

All in all my advice to you is to buy the best maintained car you can afford and spend money on getting every piece of maintenance done BEFORE modding or else these cars will eat you/your wallet alive.

I've been driving my car with a CEL for over a year now . . .

[92325onMrims]

what is the easiest way to tell the difference?