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Thread: e39 dead-Your thoughts please!

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    e39 dead-Your thoughts please!

    First time posting but have done alot of lurking on this one.
    Here is what happened:
    My wife stops for gas after about 15 minutes of driving and having no problem with starting the car.
    Once she is finished gasing she tries to start it and there is no cranking. Everything works electrically but the motor does not even try to crank.
    I get there an hour later, try to boost, nothing. Diconnect the battery, reconnect, nothing. Play with the ignition key, in and out alot of times, nothing.
    Leave the car there, came home ,searched here as much as possible and decide to buy a new ignition switch and try my other keys.
    Get back to the car the next day, try to start car with same key as day before, nothing.
    Try other keys, both make the engine turn over perfectly but does not try to fire up just keeps turning over till I change key position.
    Decide to change ignition switch anyways since I have it. Put in original key that did not work for two days and it now makes the engine crank but not fire. Take the key out of the ignition, lock the doors with it then unlock them, try to start engine with the same key nothing.
    Try other keys, both make engine crank forever but never fire.
    Now I am thinking it has to do with the immobilizer not letting me start the engine. Is there anyway to over ride this system so I can get the car home?
    Nothing odd with the electricals either(no gremlins).
    There has been times in the past when it has taken two turns of the key to get it to crank.

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
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    your original key as lost its programming and the spares are not programmed properly. IMO

  3. #3
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    CEL? Can you pull any codes?


    Does the car chirp when pressing the unlock button?
    My guess is the immobilizer as well or a no fuel situation.
    540i-sold, 325is-sold, Econo boat 2011 Civic-sold
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  4. #4
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    It could be a number of things ,any other symptoms? Has it had hard to start problems prior,a little more info needed.don't go and start buying parts until you troubleshoot it properly.Is the starter clicking when you try to start it?It could be fuel pump, fuel filter ,or cps or something else. It sucks we can't witness the symptoms to help you out.
    Last edited by jetblackE39; 08-23-2010 at 01:36 AM.

  5. #5
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    i am willing to bet it is your starter. not sure where the starter is on your car, but if you can hit it (long broom handle) while someone is turning the key, i bet it will start.
    There is no replacement for displacement; try boost!!

    Cars: 1997 Audi A3 1.8T (AGU) Sold
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  6. #6
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    E39 525I ,70camaro,
    tow it home?

    e39
    BMWPOWER

  7. #7
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    immobilizer issue is the only thing that makes sense to me. look in the glove box, pull down the fuse "box", pull out the card and look for an immobilizer fuse. if it's not there, might be in the trunk (right side, above battery). pull the fuse and see what changes.

    as prev. asked - does the alarm operate normally otherwise?

    how old is the battery? if original, I'd replace it just to eliminate that as a variable.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by carjoe View Post
    CEL? Can you pull any codes?


    Does the car chirp when pressing the unlock button?
    My guess is the immobilizer as well or a no fuel situation.
    The key that makes the alarm chirp does not make the engine crank. All other keys crank engine fine but does not start.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetblackE39 View Post
    It could be a number of things ,any other symptoms? Has it had hard to start problems prior,a little more info needed.don't go and start buying parts until you troubleshoot it properly.Is the starter clicking when you try to start it?It could be fuel pump, fuel filter ,or cps or something else. It sucks we can't witness the symptoms to help you out.
    There was a few instances in the past when the key would have to be taken out of the ignition and then put back for the car to start, but that seldom happened and it was quit a while ago.

    2 keys crank the engine fine, 1 just lights up the dash like it is suppose to but does not crank the engine.

    took a spark plug out, connected a booster cable to the ground and then on the threads of plug-no spark

    Quote Originally Posted by new200guy View Post
    i am willing to bet it is your starter. not sure where the starter is on your car, but if you can hit it (long broom handle) while someone is turning the key, i bet it will start.
    no,not the started. Two or the keys make the engine crank perfectly

    Quote Originally Posted by e39kiwi View Post
    tow it home?
    towed home. In my garage now

    Here are a few electrical test I did:

    Fuse box in glove compartment:
    fuel pump fuse 31=key on power
    imobilizer fuse 37=key on power
    imobilizer fuse 12=power always
    imobilizer fuse removed=car does not crank

    under passenger air filter:
    all fuses look good
    points 7 8 9 10 power always
    points 1 2 3 4 5 6 power only when car cranks

    Coil key on=no power
    Coil power to 1of3 points when cranking over (furthest right)

    Hoping this will help narrow down my search for the problem. Thanks again for the interest.
    Last edited by idstumped; 08-23-2010 at 09:30 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  9. #9
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    sounds like you're well on your way, and also certainly not a common problem.

    Anyone have a suggestion on either proving the alarm system (EWS?) as the issue, or eliminating that?


    If it's NOT an alarm issue, and that's a huge assumption, then...

    the last bit on your note confuses me a little. can you explain
    "Coil key on=no power
    -- key on, engine not cranking, you measured power at one of the coil packs?
    Coil power to 1of3 points when cranking over (furthest right"
    -- again, measured at the coil pack? or where?

    do you have a bentley manual, or good schematic otherwise?

    here's a wag. it's a ground issue. ON MY M52TU (6 cyl), there's one ground by the dsc module. Mine was a little loose and others have reported that too. there's a big one on the passenger side, sort-of in front of the wheelwell. I think you get to that from under the car. another ground connection on the driver's side, near the front of the fender. Maybe more. Checking those is at least eliminating a potential problem -- although based on the quality of your post, maybe you already have?

    Let's say that the scenario is, everything tests perfectly, just no spark at the coil packs. On the M52TU, there's six coils of course, and the harness has two grounds right on the cylinder head. If the valve cover gasket were leaking enough, it's possible that one would loosen up and lose connection. If one did, the other might be the backup. then the other goes... Now, I don't know how the M62 is set up this regard, but they often have leaky valve cover gaskets... plausible?

    what's the status of the battery?

    Keep at it!
    Last edited by cpatstone; 08-24-2010 at 06:09 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpatstone View Post
    sounds like you're well on your way, and also certainly not a common problem.

    Anyone have a suggestion on either proving the alarm system (EWS?) as the issue, or eliminating that?


    If it's NOT an alarm issue, and that's a huge assumption, then...

    the last bit on your note confuses me a little. can you explain
    "Coil key on=no power
    -- key on, engine not cranking, you measured power at one of the coil packs?
    Coil power to 1of3 points when cranking over (furthest right"
    -- again, measured at the coil pack? or where?

    do you have a bentley manual, or good schematic otherwise?

    here's a wag. it's a ground issue. ON MY M52TU (6 cyl), there's one ground by the dsc module. Mine was a little loose and others have reported that too. there's a big one on the passenger side, sort-of in front of the wheelwell. I think you get to that from under the car. another ground connection on the driver's side, near the front of the fender. Maybe more. Checking those is at least eliminating a potential problem -- although based on the quality of your post, maybe you already have?

    Let's say that the scenario is, everything tests perfectly, just no spark at the coil packs. On the M52TU, there's six coils of course, and the harness has two grounds right on the cylinder head. If the valve cover gasket were leaking enough, it's possible that one would loosen up and lose connection. If one did, the other might be the backup. then the other goes... Now, I don't know how the M62 is set up this regard, but they often have leaky valve cover gaskets... plausible?

    what's the status of the battery?

    Keep at it!
    This is what I did for the coils, don't know if it makes sense:
    pulled coil from spark plug (at least I think it is a coil?)
    removed coil from its lead
    that wire has a plug at the end that plugs into the coil, it has three terminals-these are the terminals I checked for 12v
    only got 12v on farthest right terminal when car is cranking

    unfortunately I do not have a manual.

    I will check those grounds as soon as I get the chance.
    Thanks

  11. #11
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    Did your E39 sign a DNR?


    If not, fix it.
    If so, cremate it.

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    PRICE CUT on ALL FABRICS
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  12. #12
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    anyone else going to help this dude?

  13. #13
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    Not sure anyone can...

    Any codes? Battery is good?
    I'm still leaning towards the immobilizer but have no clue how it functions in the E39.
    540i-sold, 325is-sold, Econo boat 2011 Civic-sold
    Car ADD
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  14. #14
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    I have had an ews module issue with the symptoms as you describe above. You can get a new one at the dealer it comes coded for your vin and set of keys. You will need DIS/GT1 to sync everything.

    I also had another no start issue after heavy rain, ended up killing the starter and blowing a 50amp fuse under the passenger seat. Also fried my cluster and GM3, also needed to be recoded with PA Soft and DIS/GT1. Good luck these situations are a nightmare.

  15. #15
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    i will have to agree with dpatel1026, had the same issue ews module 900$ at the stealership . Went to pick the car up the day it was supposed to be done i was told the the new module was coded wrong took em another couple of days to get a new one.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green 97 528i View Post
    i will have to agree with dpatel1026, had the same issue ews module 900$ at the stealership . Went to pick the car up the day it was supposed to be done i was told the the new module was coded wrong took em another couple of days to get a new one.
    Damn, that was pricey at the stealer. The module should have been around $150-75ish, Im not sure about the labor but its really easy to change the cigerette pack sized module behind the glove box. You could probably find someone or an indy with DIS/GT1 in your area to help you out to sync everything up and save some cash.

  17. #17
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    I had an identical problem in a 328 sport (e46) i change the plugs with boschs (which i later found were fake) ranfor about a month then the same thing happend it cranked and wouldnt start, took it to bmw who said there was a communication problem between ews and ecu, and they tried resyncing but it wouldnt. i ended up getting second hand ews ecu and keys which fixed the problem!

  18. #18
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    I am leaning towards the EWS but I really would like a sure fire way of testing the system. I have read so many conflicting threads on the subject that I am just getting mixed up.

    Some tell me if it is the EWS the engine will not even crank and others say it will.

    Have not really found anything concrete to say for sure it is that.

    Still searching
    Thanks for the replys, they are helping!

  19. #19
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    Someone mentioned battery. Have you checked the battery? If it's over 4 years old, replace.

  20. #20
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    Have you checked the neutral safety switch? Run the lever through the gears and try to start with the lever in neutral.

  21. #21
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    Following thread, curious about outcome. Good luck.
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  22. #22
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    An E39 is not dead until Dr. McCoy says it's dead.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnotherGeezer View Post
    An E39 is not dead until Dr. McCoy says it's dead.
    Project Genesis FTW.
    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
    ~Macktheknife in my epic Jennifer Connelly OT Thread

  24. #24
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    if its ews you will here the starter motor but it wont fire...

  25. #25
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    If you can get a hold of carsoft, ediabas/inpa, or gt1/dis you will be able to find out real quick with a diagnoses. I cant remember if carsoft brought up my fault or not though.

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