The OFFICIAL Brake Pad Thread . . .

[Phantom]

After doing a search for trackworthy brake pad advice I figured maybe we could use a thread pooling everyone's experience and knowledge on different brake pads (Brand, Model), the vehicle applications/conditions under which we use them (Competition, Driving Schools, HPDEs, Autocross, Street), and their relative performance,

Here's my experience:

95 M3 daily driver (see sig)

I place priority on good track performance (Driving Schools, HPDEs). Pads need to be streetable, but brake dust is not a concern. Here's what I've used so far, listed in order of how I rate their performance:

• Pagid Sport (Excellent pedal modulation and feedback. Very good fade resistance. Good brake torque. About mid-grade temperature resistance.)
• Mintex (standard) (Good pedal feedback, slightly lower braking torque and less fade resistance, though)
• MetalMasters (Stiff pedal feedback. Difficult to modulate. Harsh rotor wear. Excellent fade resistance, temperature resistance, and excellent brake torque, though. Used them at Michigan Speedway, 95 deg F ambient temperature, repetitively threshold braking from 130mph to 50 mph.)
• Pagid Standard (Very good pedal modulation and feedback. Lower fade resistance. Lower brake torque.)
• Raybestos (don't recommend for track duty)

Pads I eventually want to try/ am considering

Axxis
Hawk
Porterfield

[M Rob]

Not another one of these ...I see about one a day...(sigh) Feel free to give me a call Kelly for some opinions and data I have collected, I don't have time to repost it on every brake pad thread.

[zenon]

Why not post the info somewhere so you don't have to type it all the time?

[ArcticFox]

Why dont you want to swap pads at the track? The only way to go is to go with a full track pad. The performance increase is awesome compared to any of the pads you mentioned or are considering.

I am running the Cobalt VR-spec yada yada pads on the track...they fricken rock man. You should really just get your hands dirty and swap them pads out...only takes 10-15 minutes you know...come on man...you know you want to....

[Phantom]

Originally posted by M Rob
Not another one of these ...I see about one a day...(sigh) Feel free to give me a call Kelly for some opinions and data I have collected, I don't have time to repost it on every brake pad thread.

Rob,

I ran a search using "brake pads" and found much scattered info. I figure there are many, many pad threads.

I'm not intending this to be yet another "Which brake pad should I get?" thread, but rather a repository of members' experience comparing the different pads each one has used.

Again, I'm not asking for advice on which pad. I'm offering my experience so far, and I plan to continue adding to this thread as I try different pads in the coming months/years.

So, like Zenon said, if you've posted over and over again with your recommendations then why not cut and paste it here? And along with that, maybe it would help if interested members just post up a brief comparison of the pads they have used in the past?

The responses to follow from folks (or lack thereof) should tell if this centralized thread is a good idea . . .

[Phantom]

Originally posted by ArcticFox
Why dont you want to swap pads at the track? The only way to go is to go with a full track pad. The performance increase is awesome compared to any of the pads you mentioned or are considering.

I am running the Cobalt VR-spec yada yada pads on the track...they fricken rock man. You should really just get your hands dirty and swap them pads out...only takes 10-15 minutes you know...come on man...you know you want to....

I swap pads every track weekend. By now I can do it blindfolded. That's not my point.

So, you run Cobalt VR-spec. How do they compare to other pads you have used on the track or street? How do they compare to your street pads? See what I'm getting at?

[zenon]

I think it's a great idea, it really is a Frequently Asked Question afterall..... maybe it will even get "stuck" if it grows good enough

[///Mracer]

I ran the Axxis Ultimates this year at the track, auto-x, and street. They held up great at the track but they did groove my euro rotors, no noticable fading either. Auto-x they had great cold bite and on the street they were always quite. Average dustings but way better than stock. All in all, me likey

I am debating about running a track only pad next season for track days. Anyone swap just the FRONTS or do you swap all 4?

Matt

[John V]

Matt that's exactly the info I was looking for. Good cold bite, low dust, and no noise. Sold!

Thanks,

John

[///Mracer]

John it is a great auto-x pad. I tried Hawk HPs prior and it sucked for cold bite.

[DannO]

Performance Friction 97s are the way to go for a track only pad on cars with ABS. The only downside is the dust - it's nasty stuff. If the dust (which there is a lot of) gets wet and isn't cleaned up it will chemically bond to your wheels when dry. It's a real biotch to get off then, though not impossible. I've clayed it off before, but have heard there is an oven cleaner out there that makes it easy to do. Haven't tried that yet...

Best bet is to wipe down your wheels at the end of the day (nightime dew got me once) or between runs if it's wet out.

I switch them out for PF z-rated pads for the street because the compounds are compatible, but I'm not very happy with the z pads. Too much pedal input is required. They produce ZERO dust though.

If you switch pads for the track and use different brands with different compounds, scotchbrite the rotors during the switch. Pads work by depositing a layer of crap on the rotors that grabs the pads (like microscopic velcro). Mixing compounds can sometimes be a bad thing.

How do the pads you mention above behave WRT dust? I'm going to switch away from the PF z's when they are all used up and want a low-dust, high performance street pad.

[m3balance]

Pagid RS14, keramik, very stable breaking, high-grade temperature resistance, sometimes squiiizze.

the maximum (only race cars):
Performance Friction 83 are also the way to go for a track only pad on cars, you need one pad and one rotor togehter, easy to change.

[jdmorris]

Here are threads about Ultimates and Cobalt Spec VR's that I posted in previously.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...hreadid=129151

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...hreadid=135850

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...postid=1380210

[traqrat]

I've run these race pads on my E30 325i:

EBC Redstuff - poor pedal feel (mushy), good torque, good face resistance, lasted 2 track days, $$$, would NOT recommend

Pagid Orange - excellent pedal feel, good torque, excellent fade resistance, lasted 6 track days, $$$$

Porterfield R4 - excellent pedal feel, lots of initial bite, excellent torque, excellent fade resistance, lasted 4 track days, $$$

[benaj]

I will throw my pennies into the hat for the crowd--

I am assuming you are looking experiences for only track compounds, so won't give my experiences with different street-track compounds.

Once you get them hot, I really enjoyed the progressive modulation and extreme torque from a set of Ferodo DS3000s. They were a bitch to work with when cold. Needed at least 3 blocks of left foot braking to get them hot enough to stop on the street (sometimes I am lazy and want to change my pads before I head to the track on friday night). And especially with the trailer thought I was endangering other people on the expressway several times drivng home from the track on sunday. My main gripe with the pads is that they only lasted 4 1/2 track days. And the one rear pad blew out on me, going from a *measured* 1/4 depth left straight down to the backing plate in one run session. The other rear still was at its 1/4 depth-left when I got off the track, but that one side had disintegrated completely-- hopefully a fluke. Funny how much stopping power I still had with three ferodo-stopping wheels and one metal backing plated wheel!

I moved on to carbotech's race pad. Interesting pad. Decent cold bite for a race pad (allows me to change pads at the house if I want to without *too* much drama on the roads. But don't take me wrong, this is not a pad I would want on the street when commuting). At the track, very good modulation but the torque is about 8/10's of the ferodos. Though I haven't been able to overstress the car ever with these pads, the more you ask, the more they give. They just don't suck the eyeballs out of your head hauling down from triple digit speeds like the ferodos did. The catcher for me about these pads is that I have done 10-12 track days on this set (front and rear) and I still have pad left for an event or two next spring!

I have a bunch of Porsche buddies that are now running the PFC 01s and are loving them. Supposedly they don't require a bedding-in. You just pop them in (damn those out there with porsche calipers) and go run your pants off.

Hope that helps, let me know if you need clarification on anything.

ben

[Emre]

I've used street pads (GreenStuff, Hawk HPS, PBR Deluxe, Pagid, Ate) on the track and they all suck so bad they're not even worth mentioning. The only true race pads I've tried on my E30 318is have been Hawk Blues and PF-90's. I've used both with either stock pads or EBC GreenStuff in the rear.

When cold, the Hawk Blues are very hard on rotors, don't stop well, and chatter like crazy. But once they warm up after a couple of hard stops (usually takes less than half a lap) they're absolutely amazing! Incredible bite and fade resistance. They favor a very abrupt braking technique: mash them hard then let go. It's like hitting a brick wall! When used in this manner, they last forever. However, if you drag out your braking, they don't work very well or last very long.

The main problem with the Blues is that they're very difficult to modulate...they're pretty much a "stop switch" if you know what I mean. Also, the dust is very tenacious and incredibly corrosive. I've ruined a set of wheels and lost bits of paint on the car when I neglected to clean the dust off right away.

As for the PF-90's, they're a whole different story. There's much less initial bite, but they're very easy to modulate. The dust is less corrosive and easy to clean. However, they don't have the stopping power or fade resistance of the Hawk Blues. They don't work very well with my braking style.

I've been told the Carbotech Panther XP something-or-other is a good compromise: similar to the Hawk Blues but more progressive and with non-corrosive dust. That's what I plan to try next. I've also heard good things about the Cool Willy's that Turner sells.

Emre

[BONTRAK]

**Porterfield R4S Review**
Dust -- mild-to-moderate
Cold Bite/streetability -- Excellent
Track Bite/stopping power when hot -- good-to-very good
Track Fade resistance -- very good
Rotor wear -- very good (got nearly3 years out of front rotors!)
Pad life -- pretty short (between 3 and 5 Solo 1-type events)

Used them on all 4 wheels -- for track purposes I figure you don't want to leave braking power on the shelf becuase you couldn't bother to put a performance oriented, hi brake torque pad on the rear wheels.

For the guy who wants to drive his track pad on the street, the R4S is hard to beat!

-BONTRAK

[benaj]

Originally posted by Emre
I've been told the Carbotech Panther XP something-or-other is a good compromise: similar to the Hawk Blues but more progressive and with non-corrosive dust. That's what I plan to try next.

Sorry I didn't specify in my earlier post. The Carbotech Panther XP (more specifically the XP8s) is the compound that I am running and reviewed in the above post.

And bimmerworlds full front brake ducting kit was added after the Ferodos were consumed but before the Carbotechs, so a level comparison cannot be made with the front pads.

ben

[biodan]

My experience is only with driving schools and DE's, since 97.

Previously, on my e36m3, i ran PF97 pads with the same comments made by Danno about performance, dust & wheels.

Currently on my e46m3, i've run (all on the front, i'm using the BMW Euro rear pad which may not be that different from the stock pad):

1. Pagid Blue - a good street pad but not much stopping power. Rotor friendly and no fade. Dust was not corrosive. Took them off after wearing them down only half-way after 5 track days. I have the Bimmerworld backing-plates & ducted cooling to the rotors. About $200 for the front.

2. Brakeman#3 - a good combo pad. No dust issues and very rotor friendly. Fantastic cold bite and great track performance with linear torque. No fade whatsoever. I learned about the Brakeman#3's from the Kraft e36m3 list where posters mentioned that its the favorite of Vipers.

Brakeman#3's do squeal but the goop helps reduce it. I've run thru 2 sets, first set lasted 6.5 days and the 2nd set lasted 8 days (all at Sears/Laguna/Thill). About $210.

3. Now with a AP Racing front caliper (6-piston setup from Ground-Control), i've run the Ferodo DS2500 just once at Thill where i discovered that this is basically a good street pad, i felt fade even with the cooling kit. A dusty pad but not corrosive. This pad is quiet & rotor friendly (I was told the DS3000, a true track pad, was not rotor friendly). The Ferodo DS2500's are now my street pads.

4. Just swapped in Porterfield R4 in the AP caliper. Not very dusty but leaves rotor deposits even with Bimmerworld backing plates and ducted cooling. Dust is not corrosive. I did the scotch-brite rotor scrubbing before swapping back to the Ferodo's. Slight squealing, much quieter than the Brakeman#3. The front R4 set was $240.

The R4 has linear torque and good stopping power- not bad when cold too. After a 2-day Sears DE about 10days ago in the advanced group, i only wore the pads down 1.5-2mm (granted Sears is not hard on brakes). At this rate, i should get more than 8 days out of the pad... on a 3230lb e46m3!! Odd that traqrat only got 4days :-)

Many of my track buddies like Pagid Oranges or Carbotech XP.

Oh, when i was running the Pagids & the first set of Brakeman#3's, i ran ATE SuperBlue. i'm now running Motul600. Stainless lines since the first DE in this car too.

Originally posted by traqrat
I've run these race pads on my E30 325i:
...
Porterfield R4 - excellent pedal feel, lots of initial bite, excellent torque, excellent fade resistance, lasted 4 track days, $$$

[magnetic1]

I only use Carbotech Panther XPs for track and Carbotech Bobcat for street/autoX... I have tried almost everything out there and can safely say the Carbotechs are by far one of the best compounds on the market....

[vjlax18]

Originally posted by SoloII///M
Matt that's exactly the info I was looking for. Good cold bite, low dust, and no noise. Sold!

Thanks,

John

You just drove on them dumby:

[mcoupejeff]

My experience on my 99 Mcoupe is with street, DE's, and open track days. I use the PF z pads on the street and have yet to find a better solution. much higher heat tolerance than stock and as stated before, 0 dust! On the track i'm using the Ferrado DS3000, this pad absolutely rips the eyeballs out of your head, however im having a problem with the pad depositiing material on the rotors. Anyone know how to solve this? These pads are next to impossible to get to fade, Im running them with factory Mcoupe rotors that have been cryoed. also they are not good to your wheels, as soon as that dust gets wet ur introuble, so clean after every session! I plan to try the Cool Willies or cobalts next spring.

Jeff

[John V]

Originally posted by vjlax18
You just drove on them dumby:

Your car has brakes?

[vjlax18]

Yes, with Axxis Ultimates :

[quik96M3]

I've been running the Carbotech Panther XP's (front) with Hawk HP Plus (rear) for the past four track days and use a dedicated set of rotors for track. I've found the Panther XP's to be exceptional for wear (still have ~60-70% left) and have good, even bite, although not nearly as much bite as my previous (and discontinued) favorites, Hawk HT-8. My only complaint about the Panther XPs is I cannot for the life of me get the rotors bedded evenly - the pad material consistently forms a pattern on the rotor surface, resulting in pulsing/warped feel under hard braking, especially if any steering input is added. I contacted Carbotech about this and was told to resurface the rotors and take it easy on the first session, which I did, but it didn't help.

The Hawk HP Plus's were purchased as a full set (F/R) when I was foolish enough to listen to people who said they worked great for both street and track use. Hella scary on track - pitiful stopping power. The only reason I'm still running them on the rear (on track only) is because I wanted to see how they worked with the Panther XPs up front. They still stink in the rear, it feels like I'm going to endo under hard braking. I keep hoping to get my front Panthers to bed right so I can justify buying the same compound for the rear. I'll have to decide on new rears within the next couple track days, as the HP Plus's are almost worn out.

Keith Q.