Alignment issue

[vanste]

Here's the deal. I just bought my first e46 (99 323i) and it's pulling only if I let go of the steering wheel. It's pulls hard left if steering wheel is let go of. I brought it to alignment shop and everything is off. They said that my car might of been in a front end collision and I might need to get my body pulled. All the tires are evenly worn from when I bought it tip now. Has about 50% tread left. The alignment printout is below. Would replacing all 4 shocks help. Or do I need to get some sort of camber kit. Nothing been done to the car it's all completely stock.

[1988 325ix]

Here's the deal. I just bought my first e46 (99 323i) and it's pulling only if I let go of the steering wheel. It's pulls hard left if steering wheel is let go of. I brought it to alignment shop and everything is off. They said that my car might of been in a front end collision and I might need to get my body pulled. All the tires are evenly worn from when I bought it tip now. Has about 50% tread left. The alignment printout is below. Would replacing all 4 shocks help. Or do I need to get some sort of camber kit. Nothing been done to the car it's all completely stock.

That's messed up, and shocks have nothing to do with the alignment. More the tie rods, control arms.

The strut towers could be bent.

I guess what I'd say is it wouldn't hurt to change everything and even at that the car might not drive straight because the body could be bent to hell. Sell it as is and get another better car before you dump money into this one, or keep it and drive it as is unless you want to spend a god awful amount of money on it.

[dickie g]

maybe get a second opinion on the alignment, and get someone to set it up?

good luck

[vanste]

I guess you get what you pay for...

[noruckus]

Yes you get what you pay for, but don't give up yet, get a second opinion on if the frame is out of whack, if it is, dump it, if not then it's just your time to do some maintainance on it, your car is 11 years old.

[vanste]

Yea I'll bring it to an actual full service shop. I just brought it to sears automotive and that's what they said. But yea it is a 11 year old car. I looked under the hood and strut tower area and everything looks fine. Nothings been moved or anything. But I'll have another shop check it out see what they say. If it is the body that is messedup I guess I have no choice but to just drive it as is. I really don't want to sell it since I gotta it for dirt cheap. Plus I don't want to pass this onto someone and let them be in the same situation that I'm in. But I'll keep you guys updated and see what the other shop says.

[viperocco]

Definitely check tie rods, control arms and other steering components. If there is suspicion of a wreck then check strut towers like mentioned above. Replacing worn steering components makes the world of difference.

[vanste]

Ok well I brought it to a autobody shop instead today to see if the body is messed up or anything and they said everything is fine. I then brought the car home to look at my suspensions. Everything looked fine also. I just recently replaced the front right lower control arm because there was a bad ball joint. I tried to see if I can atleast adjust the tie rod and my toe but I can't even turn the tie rod at all. The nut is loose but when I'm trying to turn the tie rod it will not budge at all. Is there a special way to adjust the tie rod or is that what's causing the issue. I was searching through other forums about alignment specs and the specs are like -1.4 camber or something like that. But I don't know what's going on. I would bring it to a actual BMW dealer but it's like 2 1/2 hours away from me and all the local independent shops are being ass about working on it too. Any suggestion about the tie rod?

[nathancarter]

Dang, had a long post typed up, then googled something in this window and lost it. sigh. Try #2:


My initial thought is that the Sears tech didn't know what he was doing. I hope you didn't pay Sears too much for NOT setting your alignment.

First of all, I'd get a second opinion from another alignment specialty shop before getting too concerned about body damage. It's reassuring to know that the body shop didn't find anything significant.

Second, spend an hour or two and read up on alignments, what is adjusted during alignment, how it affects your ride and tire wear, and then specifically about BMW alignment procedures.
Here are some good links:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=4
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=416660
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=459889
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=325556


The stock alignment specs on the E46 require the car to be weighted or ballasted: ~150 lbs in each front seat; ~150 lbs in the center of rear seat; ~50 lbs in the trunk, and a full tank of gas. This will cause the car to "squat" quite a bit, which will significantly affect rear camber, and slightly affect toe and front camber. If the car is set to stock alignment specs without the ballast, it'll be wrong, especially the rear camber which will be set way too negative without the ballast.

Some BMW dealerships and specialty shops have newer alignment machines which can figure out the unballasted alignment specs on-the-fly by measuring ride height. Without these specialty machines the shop (including Sears) should use the ballast if they expect to use the stock alignment specs.

To further complicate matters, there are multiple sets of stock specs, depending on your suspension package: standard, sport, or AWD.

Your choices are pretty much as follows:
1) Go to a shop that knows what they're doing with BMWs (dealer or http://www.bimrs.org)
2) Go to a shop that will use the ballast, and have them set it to stock alignment specs that are appropriate for your suspension setup.
3) After doing your reading and research, figure out what unballasted alignment specs are appropriate for your needs and driving style, and go to a shop that will use the specs that you provide. if you do this, a six-pack of cold brews will go a long way to get you in the good graces of the alignment tech.


One other significant thing of note: double-check your tire pressures and make sure they agree with what's printed on the driver's door jamb (NOT the tire sidewall). Incorrect tire pressures can cause drifting, pulling, and erratic behavior (among other things).

[vanste]

Right now I'm thinking the dealer is the best bet. I guess I'll just have to find time to get there and hope nothing is wrong with anything else.

[noruckus]

good to hear that the second shop said that nothing is wrong with the frame, so now on to getting the alignment fixed, Nathan has some real good leads, start basic and work your way along, try to get someone/shop to give you a good look over, then take it for there, you might want to start simple and do the cheapest fix first or you might want to combine several fixes together, especially if you plan on doing this yourself.

[sonspot]

Dang, had a long post typed up, then googled something in this window and lost it. sigh. Try #2:


My initial thought is that the Sears tech didn't know what he was doing. I hope you didn't pay Sears too much for NOT setting your alignment.

First of all, I'd get a second opinion from another alignment specialty shop before getting too concerned about body damage. It's reassuring to know that the body shop didn't find anything significant.

Second, spend an hour or two and read up on alignments, what is adjusted during alignment, how it affects your ride and tire wear, and then specifically about BMW alignment procedures.
Here are some good links:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=4
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=416660
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=459889
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=325556


The stock alignment specs on the E46 require the car to be weighted or ballasted: ~150 lbs in each front seat; ~150 lbs in the center of rear seat; ~50 lbs in the trunk, and a full tank of gas. This will cause the car to "squat" quite a bit, which will significantly affect rear camber, and slightly affect toe and front camber. If the car is set to stock alignment specs without the ballast, it'll be wrong, especially the rear camber which will be set way too negative without the ballast.

Some BMW dealerships and specialty shops have newer alignment machines which can figure out the unballasted alignment specs on-the-fly by measuring ride height. Without these specialty machines the shop (including Sears) should use the ballast if they expect to use the stock alignment specs.

To further complicate matters, there are multiple sets of stock specs, depending on your suspension package: standard, sport, or AWD.

Your choices are pretty much as follows:
1) Go to a shop that knows what they're doing with BMWs (dealer or http://www.bimrs.org)
2) Go to a shop that will use the ballast, and have them set it to stock alignment specs that are appropriate for your suspension setup.
3) After doing your reading and research, figure out what unballasted alignment specs are appropriate for your needs and driving style, and go to a shop that will use the specs that you provide. if you do this, a six-pack of cold brews will go a long way to get you in the good graces of the alignment tech.


One other significant thing of note: double-check your tire pressures and make sure they agree with what's printed on the driver's door jamb (NOT the tire sidewall). Incorrect tire pressures can cause drifting, pulling, and erratic behavior (among other things).

yep, i got mine done today, the first thing i asked before even showing up, is do you ballast the car, they said with the new machine they can do it unballasted but if they need to, they will do it ballast. i did not ask how much weight they would use if they had to. i dont know how these machine work but i'll give the benefit to the tech (until something fudges up).

[vanste]

The only real issue I'm having now is trying adjust the tie rods. It won't budge at all. I know it doesn't take that much to adjust it but this one is giving me trouble. I just don't wanna strip the tie rod that's all.

[Kubica]

Heat up the tie-rods with a torch- should rotate freely after that.

[pimpin325ci]

I suppose I'll chime in for some advice as well...

First, do you HAVE to get them adjusted to ballasted specs? Because I pretty much only ever drive it by myself, maybe occassionally with a passenger. So then wouldn't the ballested specs be off?

Also I know my alignment is off in some way (my steering wheel is cocked to the side and the car drifts a little bit). But I plan on getting new wheels and a drop (maybe springs or racelands, haven't decided yet). My question is, should I have the alignment checked/adjusted before or after I get these things? My consern is that the new wheels might not fit w/o issues since I'm getting staggered 19s e92 offsets with out proper alignment.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

~Christian

[nathancarter]

First, do you HAVE to get them adjusted to ballasted specs? Because I pretty much only ever drive it by myself, maybe occassionally with a passenger. So then wouldn't the ballested specs be off?

Yes, you have to get it adjusted to the ballasted specs, because unballasted specs are not available. (well, other than the specs that are generated by the newer alignment computers based on ride height, that is. You can see an example of these in the second link I put in post #9 above; scroll down to about post #14 in that linked thread, and it starts to get interesting).

Ideally, it works like this: Put the ballast in, set it to stock specs, then when you take the ballast out your alignment will be correct.

I don't think your choice of wheels should really affect your alignment, unless you change the total diameter of your wheel+tire package (this will have other consequences than just a screwy alignment, though).


For what it's worth, mine is NOT set exactly to stock specs. The vast majority of my driving is on long flat highways, alone in an otherwise empty car. For this, I keep my rear camber set about as small (vertical) as it'll go. Then, for driving events, I crawl under the car and set my rear camber as negative as it'll go. I honestly don't know if this is ideal, but it's worked for me, and my treadwear is looking really consistent across all four tires. And, the rear end is way more sticky than the front end (with unmodified camber) at driving events.

[pimpin325ci]

Yes, you have to get it adjusted to the ballasted specs, because unballasted specs are not available. (well, other than the specs that are generated by the newer alignment computers based on ride height, that is. You can see an example of these in the second link I put in post #9 above; scroll down to about post #14 in that linked thread, and it starts to get interesting).

Ideally, it works like this: Put the ballast in, set it to stock specs, then when you take the ballast out your alignment will be correct.

Ah ok that makes sense now.

I don't think your choice of wheels should really affect your alignment, unless you change the total diameter of your wheel+tire package (this will have other consequences than just a screwy alignment, though).

I understand that, but what my concern was with fender/suspension clearance. If the +30/+35 offsets are going to "cut it close" as it is, I was wondering if they might rub due to my off alignment. Anyways you guys can't help me with that I would just have to try and see I suppose.

What I do wanna ask is if it would be pointless to adjust my alignment before I get a drop (coilovers)? Would it change things and I would just need to get my car realigned after the new suspension?

[hooRAH]

What concerns me is the unballasted camber of -2.0/-2.2 on both fronts - that is a LOT of negative camber, especially for an unballasted car. The camber of ~ -1.0 on the rear is about right for a non-sport unballasted car.

Is the car lowered, or sit lower than you might expect? I wonder if the previous owner put extremely low springs on it.

Outside of that, I question the original alignment printout. Did they actually try to make any adjustments (ie, is the front toe maxed out?) or did they just look at the numbers, say "WTF?" and hand the car back to you.

Keep this in mind also - I had a very poorly handling car that I took to goodyear to be aligned twice. The first time, the numbers were all spot on, and the car handled like shit. Took it back the next day, the alignment machine said all the numbers were wrong. They 're-aligned' it, car still handled like shit.

Later, took it to a good alignment shop. They aligned it to the proper specs and the car has been a dream to drive since then. Don't underestimate the shops ability to F-up an alignment, even with the proper tools.

[robmpulse]

A lot of the time, bent suspension components can not be identified by the naked eye.

Your frame can be measured by a qualified body shop and will tell you if that is your problem or not.

[vanste]

My frame is good I took it to a respectable autobody shop and they verified it was good. The car is not lowered at all. Don't know what's going on haven't had a chance to take it to BMW yet. They didn't adjust nothing. They just say that they noticed I install new lower control arm and bushing and just wanted to check it out first. Then they brought the printout to me and told me I have something wrong that my frame might be messed up. That's all I was told. Plus I think they didn't even enter the car info into the alignment machine to get specs too. They were just looking to see where the readings are at that's all. That's what I thin because when I compare the printout with my other printout from another car, it didn't have the car info on it and my other cars info was on there. So that might be the isuue too.

[mimalmo]

Take it to Seth at JB Eurotech in New Brighton. He's good at figuring out stuff like this and he knows the E46 like nobody else.

http://www.jbeurotech.com/

Note the alignment video on the front page.

[jbeurotech]

Yes, you have to get it adjusted to the ballasted specs, because unballasted specs are not available. (well, other than the specs that are generated by the newer alignment computers based on ride height, that is. You can see an example of these in the second link I put in post #9 above; scroll down to about post #14 in that linked thread, and it starts to get interesting).

Ideally, it works like this: Put the ballast in, set it to stock specs, then when you take the ballast out your alignment will be correct.

I don't think your choice of wheels should really affect your alignment, unless you change the total diameter of your wheel+tire package (this will have other consequences than just a screwy alignment, though).


For what it's worth, mine is NOT set exactly to stock specs. The vast majority of my driving is on long flat highways, alone in an otherwise empty car. For this, I keep my rear camber set about as small (vertical) as it'll go. Then, for driving events, I crawl under the car and set my rear camber as negative as it'll go. I honestly don't know if this is ideal, but it's worked for me, and my treadwear is looking really consistent across all four tires. And, the rear end is way more sticky than the front end (with unmodified camber) at driving events.

I am in MN so I am his best bet! I will send him a PM but I am probably the best shop in Mn to handle it IMHO.

Heat up the tie-rods with a torch- should rotate freely after that.

Careful with a torch they have tend to burn up the rack boots!!!

Also you need to let the tie rods completely cool after heating as the expansion and contraction will change your alignment readings.

yep, i got mine done today, the first thing i asked before even showing up, is do you ballast the car, they said with the new machine they can do it unballasted but if they need to, they will do it ballast. i did not ask how much weight they would use if they had to. i dont know how these machine work but i'll give the benefit to the tech (until something fudges up).

They are right some new machines BMW released specs for that DO NOT need ballast as long as the ride height is within specs.

this is our new alignment toy!

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Although it is useless without understanding alignment values. It still gives us the MOST accurate readings to make adjustments

[hooRAH]

I still question that alignment readout. If he really had -2.2 deg camber unballasted on the front, he'd be tearing through tires.

I'd give JBeurotech a call and bring the car by. I learned my lesson about cheap alignments. Now, I just pay the guy with experience that I know will do the job right.

[vanste]

I still question that alignment readout. If he really had -2.2 deg camber unballasted on the front, he'd be tearing through tires.

I'd give JBeurotech a call and bring the car by. I learned my lesson about cheap alignments. Now, I just pay the guy with experience that I know will do the job right.

That's what I was thinking too. Kinda wierd that all my tires are worn evenly
though. But I'll give him a call once I actually get a chance to bring the car to him.