Z3 roady audio - tips on stealth install of 6 1/2" components up front

[dkindig]

Some of you have already seen my stealth install of a Kicker 6 1/2" sub and a new amp for it. That was actually the second phase of my audio upgrade. The first was mounting 6 1/2" components up front and I have finally gotten around to cleaning it up and taking some photos. This won't be a step-by-step, but will instead cover the high points of covering it all up and making it look factory.

First of all, there was no cutting of the sheet metal necessary. The 6 1/2" midranges mounted nicely using adapter rings and the existing 5 1/4" mounting holes. The tweeters mounted in the factory upper-midrange spot in the door panel. I did not use the existing speaker wiring but that is ONLY because I am using the internal amp of my head unit until the right amp comes to market for my fronts and I direct-wired my components to the head unit while I'm waiting for that.

[dkindig]

The tweeters were the easy part so I will cover those first. I didn't want to do what some have done and just stick the tweeters behind the metal grill using silicone to hold them in. I cut the stock upper-midrange speakers out of their mounting bracket with a dremel saw blade and enlarged the opening so that flush-mount cups would just fit inside them. Then I super-glued the flush mount cups into what was left of the mounting bracket and fitted them back in place using the existing screws and mounting points.

Just an FYI, if you pull the door wiring connectors loose from the door jambs and pull back the boots, there is a hole at the base of the connector assembly that is about 1/2" square that is perfect for threading additional wires through. There is no need to even separate the connector halves.

[dkindig]

The new midranges mounted very easily with the 5 1/4-to-6 1/2 mounting adapters. The real issue is that they stand out from the metal panel approximately 3/8" and also partially block the rectangular hole that the hook on the back of the kick panel slides into. Also, the 3/8" protrusion made it impossible to slide the kick panels into place without removing the undertrays, driver's side knee bolster and glovebox.

I modified the kick panels by cutting back the foam on the back side so that it cleared the face and frame of the 6 1/2" midranges and using a dremel and saw blade again to remove the raised reinforcing rings that surrounded the factory speakers. I cut away the portions marked in red. Make sure that the three ridges at the front of the kick panel are cut away all the way to a radius of the vertical part of the hook on the back of the panel because there has to be clearance to engage the hook in the rectangular hole and slide it forward 1/2-3/4".

The actual frame of the midranges didn't prevent engaging that hook in the hole properly, but the mounting adapter did. What I did was notch out the mounting ring flush with the frame of the speaker and that gave me enough clearance to set the kick panel straight over the driver, press the hook straight down into the hole in the sheet metal, and then slide the kick panel forward. You will see if you get into this that the other reason I had to set the kick panel straight over the driver was because of the lip at the top of the kick panel. With the driver's knee bolster and the glove compartment in place, the frame of the driver went just under those panels and it was impossible to work the top edge of the kick panels underneath them.

Everything went into place easily and there was enough clearance under the kick panels that the drivers don't hit them or cause any buzzing at all. It looks totally factory, and other than a removeable faceplate, there's nothing to indicate that the audio isn't stock. My next step is to put a 4-channel amp in the factory location on the passenger's side of the trunk and use the preamp-outs on my head unit instead of the internal amp.

[aba4430]

Good job on this. I am assuming you ran the outputs from the head unit to the crossovers and thereon to the mid-bass and tweeters. Where did you hide your crossovers?

[dkindig]

Good job on this. I am assuming you ran the outputs from the head unit to the crossovers and thereon to the mid-bass and tweeters. Where did you hide your crossovers?

No crossovers...

I'm running the head unit in active-crossover mode, front l/r to the tweeters and rear l/r to the midrange, and using the head unit to set crossover points, slopes and levels.

That's why I'm looking for a 4-channel amp. I want to continue using active-crossover mode for the fronts and not have to twiddle with passive crossovers.

[sdmike1]

What speakers did you use in the kick panels? I bought a set of nicely rated Pioneer 5.25" mid-bass speakers but they're actually too small (there's an air gap that I'd need to fill). I want to go larger, but not much into hacking things up. Maybe a shallower mount 6.5 mid?

[rmass]

How about a link to the sub and amp install? I'm looking to replace the stock HK sub in my M roadie. Replaced the front speakers with BSW mids and tweets and huge improvement but the sub needs help.

[dkindig]

What speakers did you use in the kick panels? I bought a set of nicely rated Pioneer 5.25" mid-bass speakers but they're actually too small (there's an air gap that I'd need to fill). I want to go larger, but not much into hacking things up. Maybe a shallower mount 6.5 mid?

These are Alpine X-Series speakers (SPX-177R). The main reason I used them is because they were pulled from my previous car (along with the head unit) and I was saving dollars.

I do like the Alpines because they have a nice warm sound to them, but I don't have any real recommendations I can throw your way because I didn't shop around for other possibilities.

I am glad I went ahead and shoehorned the 6 1/2's in. It makes a big difference in the mid-bass and I'm not so sure that a 5 1/4" midrange would have the same punch as these.

How about a link to the sub and amp install? I'm looking to replace the stock HK sub in my M roadie. Replaced the front speakers with BSW mids and tweets and huge improvement but the sub needs help.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1373769

There ya' go! rmass, I see you're local. If you want to take a look/listen or get some assistance with that, let me know.

[sdmike1]

I'm sure the 5.25's wouldn't have nearly the impact of the 6.5's. If your Alpines were shallower would you still have needed to do the trimming, or was it a surface issue?

[dkindig]

I'm sure the 5.25's wouldn't have nearly the impact of the 6.5's. If your Alpines were shallower would you still have needed to do the trimming, or was it a surface issue?

It was a surface issue. The mounting depth for the Alpines is 2.8" and there's room for an even deeper speaker there. But, the additional diameter still forces you to trim the reinforcement ridges away from the kick panel.

I assume when you say shallow, you mean "if the Alpines were more flush to the surface" rather than the mounting depth. If they had been flush instead of sticking up 3/8", it probably wouldn't have eliminated the need to trim back the reinforcement ridges, but it's very possible that I would have been able to reinstall the kick panels without having to remove the knee bolster and glovebox.

The issues I was having to work around were a) the flange on the driver is 1/4" thick and the adapter ring is another 1/8" thick so the face of the driver was 3/8" out from the surface of the sheet metal; and b) the diameter of the driver flange and the adapter ring interfered with the hook on the back of the kick panel and interfered with sliding the kick panel into place with the knee bolster/glovebox in place.

Also, under high excursion the driver or the rubber surround could have hit the reinforcement ridges. With the stock speakers, the reinforcement ridges are located completely outside the diameter of the driver and surround.

[zeeand7]

Great writeup again! I just finished putting a pair of the 5 1/4-inch Alpine SPX-Pro speakers in the kick panels and they are fantastic (even on the stock amp for now!). I bet the 6.5s are even better. I also put some 4-inch MB Quartz behind the seats last night (not so good on the stock amp but that is temporary) and now am preparing to do the tweeter/4-channel amp upgrade as soon as I can solve my crossover choice and mounting plan.

[sdmike1]

It was a surface issue. The mounting depth for the Alpines is 2.8" and there's room for an even deeper speaker there. But, the additional diameter still forces you to trim the reinforcement ridges away from the kick panel.

I assume when you say shallow, you mean "if the Alpines were more flush to the surface" rather than the mounting depth. If they had been flush instead of sticking up 3/8", it probably wouldn't have eliminated the need to trim back the reinforcement ridges, but it's very possible that I would have been able to reinstall the kick panels without having to remove the knee bolster and glovebox.

The issues I was having to work around were a) the flange on the driver is 1/4" thick and the adapter ring is another 1/8" thick so the face of the driver was 3/8" out from the surface of the sheet metal; and b) the diameter of the driver flange and the adapter ring interfered with the hook on the back of the kick panel and interfered with sliding the kick panel into place with the knee bolster/glovebox in place.

Also, under high excursion the driver or the rubber surround could have hit the reinforcement ridges. With the stock speakers, the reinforcement ridges are located completely outside the diameter of the driver and surround.

Great info. Yes, I was asking about mounting depth, not surface height. It seemed there was plenty of room for deeper speakers in there and you confirmed it. It's really about what happens when the face of your speaker is a much larger diameter than what those grills were covering before.

Another question for you. Since the 5 1/4 speakers I got are too small for the cutout (I have about a 3/16 gap around the perimeter) I can either try something else or try sealing with non-porous foam stripping or an MDF ring. I'm wondering instead if I can try a 6" Pyramid woofer that I have sitting in my garage. It might just sit in there without all the trimming. What are your thoughts on using a woofer versus a component mid-woofer in the panels? Yeah, yeah..I know it's a POS, but I'm not asking it to do what the Kicker is doing.

Here are the Pioneers that are too small

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-6V8bUsU...TS-A1302C.html

Here's the cheap pyramid woofer I can try in there

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product

[Quincy1897]

Here's the cheap pyramid woofer I can try in there

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product

If you look around all the different threads about stereo upgrade you'll see that most, if not all, people who put in the pyramids end up changing it out for the kicker cvt65 6.5" sub for between the seats. I would spend the extra 45 bucks and get one the kicker that everyone recommends.

dkindig, another great write up. I'm prob going to order either my Headunit or the elf audio sub amp when I get my paycheck for drill next weekend. Any word yet on the 4-channel Elf audio amp? Also I found a couple different speakers/component sets from yours, I'll let you know how my install goes when I do it later this spring.

[sdmike1]

If you look around all the different threads about stereo upgrade you'll see that most, if not all, people who put in the pyramids end up changing it out for the kicker cvt65 6.5" sub for between the seats. I would spend the extra 45 bucks and get one the kicker that everyone recommends.

I'm one of those guys. I have the Kicker sub in the rear enclosure. That's the reason I have the Pyramid sub that I could try in the kick panel.

[Quincy1897]

I'm one of those guys. I have the Kicker sub in the rear enclosure. That's the reason I have the Pyramid sub that I could try in the kick panel.

Oh I got ya

[dkindig]

Another question for you. Since the 5 1/4 speakers I got are too small for the cutout (I have about a 3/16 gap around the perimeter) I can either try something else or try sealing with non-porous foam stripping or an MDF ring. I'm wondering instead if I can try a 6" Pyramid woofer that I have sitting in my garage. It might just sit in there without all the trimming. What are your thoughts on using a woofer versus a component mid-woofer in the panels? Yeah, yeah..I know it's a POS, but I'm not asking it to do what the Kicker is doing.

Sealing the mounting area up is kind of pointless because of the way the sheet metal is designed in that area. You have the cutout for the hook on the trim panel that leaks air, and if you look up higher over the speaker cutout, you can see that the panel is completely open except for some butyl tape that covers the area where the wiring harness exits the area vertically.

If you really wanted to seal the driver properly, about the only way to do it would be with some of those cup-shaped foam baffles (XTC makes good ones - parts-express.com) that completely cover the rear of the driver. THEN the seal around the edge of the driver would be more critical. I saw one trick where you can add a little loose fiberglass in the back of the baffle and accomplish an effect similar to loosely stuffing a sub enclosure.

I would look at the Pyramid driver as a temporary solution only. Remember that drivers designed for sub duty and drivers designed for midrange duty are designed differently in terms of their surrounds, cone material and spider since they are targeted for different frequency ranges.

dkindig, another great write up. I'm prob going to order either my Headunit or the elf audio sub amp when I get my paycheck for drill next weekend. Any word yet on the 4-channel Elf audio amp? Also I found a couple different speakers/component sets from yours, I'll let you know how my install goes when I do it later this spring.

Thanks! No word yet on the 4-channel amp. One of the other reasons I'm so hung up on the Class-H amps (aside from a Class-AB output stage) is that they are more efficient thermally. They don't require an onboard cooling fan because they don't run as hot and that will probably make a huge difference when it comes to driving them hard in the summer heat. If Elf doesn't come through in a reasonable timeframe I may more seriously consider using an Arc Audio unit for the fronts.

Once summer gets here I plan on getting an IR thermometer and playing around a little bit with monitoring the operating temps of the amps under those carpets. If heat becomes an issue I may ultimately locate some small fans next to the ventilation slots in the back of the trunk and run them off of a relay driven from the amp turn-on signal.

[sdmike1]

Sealing the mounting area up is kind of pointless because of the way the sheet metal is designed in that area. You have the cutout for the hook on the trim panel that leaks air, and if you look up higher over the speaker cutout, you can see that the panel is completely open except for some butyl tape that covers the area where the wiring harness exits the area vertically.

Thanks. You confirmed what I was thinking too. However, I'm at a loss to explain then how these new speakers sounded SO bad when temporarily mounted. Even at 4ohm and 90db they seemed very quiet and sounded very rough. Maybe that's just what midrange sounds like coming out of this stock amp Maybe the only way to tell is to mount them up right and see what I think. I just had one of them in and my head in the footwell. I should probably put both in and then sit in the driver seat and see what I think.

[zeeand7]

With the 5.25-inch Alpines that I put in, I used dynamat equivalent around them but am driving them today with the stock amp from the BMW HK system. They sound great even though the space is not even close to being sealed. The specs say the Alpines are less sensitive than the Pioneers you used but I don't have volume problems with them at all. I was surprised at how well they sounded because the original speakers were 2 ohm models (2.2 with a meter) and I expected to get significantly less volume. However, that has not been the case.

With the Quartz speakers in the 4-inch spots, the sensitivity spec is only 82db plus they are 4 ohm vs. 3 ohm of the originals. I can definitely tell a volume difference with those. Maybe your Pioneers aren't really 90db speakers...

[dkindig]

Maybe your Pioneers aren't really 90db speakers...

Orrrrrrrrrrr...

Maybe the amp is part of the problem too. One of the reasons I dove into this audio upgrade wholesale like I did was because I could tell early on that it was going to be one of those all-or-nothing propositions.

If someone asked me what the weak link is with the HK systems in these cars, I would have to pretty much respond "Everything."

[zeeand7]

However.....

I think sdmike1 and I are using the same amp (both the stock HK) but we are using different speakers. Mine are listed at 87db sensitivity and his at 90db. I have (surprisingly!) no volume problems on these speakers and he does (although he only has one hooked up and that could be playing havoc with his amp since he is now resistance-imbalanced on the different channels). So, unless a defective amp is involved...the difference must be the speakers.

I suggest hooking up the second speaker and seeing if the volume problem still exists.

I do agree with the all-or-none replacement strategy, especially after my 4-inch experience and the overall level of distortion in this system. For a casual listener, I think they could get away with just replacing the kick panel speakers but for someone who wants a quality system, the amps just have to go.

[inspector1]

Greetings, I never did hear back from you. Been trying to soak up as much as possible about redoing my stereo. I just completed the kicker sub. Now ready to spend some $ and could really use some straightforward "here is what you should get" and install:

- Are the Elf amps out - still favor those?
- HU? now want to replace that as well - hoping to get a fairly good color match, but definitely want CD capable, SAT (sirius) capable - nice flush mount and preferably not too tricked out
- front speakers - heard Focal speakers at CarToys - fairly impressed...are they that good? I will spend the $ for clean, clear sound like that

Any help here is much appreciated...just overloaded....everyone has opinions on all parts....about the only unanimous general opinion was the sub - worked great...fairly easy install..had grinder

thx

[dkindig]

Greetings, I never did hear back from you. Been trying to soak up as much as possible about redoing my stereo. I just completed the kicker sub. Now ready to spend some $ and could really use some straightforward "here is what you should get" and install:

- Are the Elf amps out - still favor those?
- HU? now want to replace that as well - hoping to get a fairly good color match, but definitely want CD capable, SAT (sirius) capable - nice flush mount and preferably not too tricked out
- front speakers - heard Focal speakers at CarToys - fairly impressed...are they that good? I will spend the $ for clean, clear sound like that

Any help here is much appreciated...just overloaded....everyone has opinions on all parts....about the only unanimous general opinion was the sub - worked great...fairly easy install..had grinder

thx

Sorry about not getting back to you. I go through phases where I have time to do brain dumps like this and then life kicks in and I don't have the time to put anything together. I'm also in the middle of getting a feel for what I've done with my audio and my goals are changing/evolving as I am going through the fine-tuning process and finding the new weak points.

Congrats on the Kicker sub install! I'm loving mine, and especially loving the Elf E2125X as a sub amp. Fits great and sounds great. Plenty of clean bass with the top up (cabin gain), and just turn up the sub output a few notches to compensate with the top down (plenty of power). No word yet on the Elf 4-channel amps. I'm still waiting.

On the head unit, it's really a matter of personal preference. I like Alpine, but I am starting to get it in my mind to go with something else. I have an older Alpine HU (CDA-9833) that has great power (28W rms per channel), but I am not completely satisfied with their implementation of active crossovers. It doesn't have fine enough adjustment to take care of some freq response issues I'm trying to fix. For now, I actually think the passive crossovers are going to give me more granular control of the crossover frequencies. I think the next item after an amp for the fronts will be an external active crossover unit with continuously-adjustable controls between the HU and the amp.

Aside from that, I REALLY, REALLY miss speed-sensitive volume, and it would be nice to have RDS too. It's 2010, and I don't know why Alpine doesn't step up to the plate on those two things. Most HU's these days have customizable illumination and you can dial in an exact match to the instrument panel lighting. Any single DIN unit should be relatively flush when mounted. On controls, simple is better. Standard twist knob for volume, pushbuttons for station memory, etc. I liked the idea of a completely smooth face with a touch-panel display but realized that it would be very difficult to use without looking at what I was doing, which is dangerous.

Focals are NICE speakers. If you don't mind spending the bucks, go for it. I can tell you that I would be jealous if you did. I may even go listen to some myself, now that you mention it. Now that I've got all the hard work done I should be able to mount just about anything up front. I was looking at speakers in the Focal price range and the MTX speakers look really nice and they're comparably priced, if not cheaper.

[sdmike1]

Just an update on the Pioneer speakers in the kick panels. I finally got around to installing my Pioneer TS-A1302C 5.25" speakers in the kick panels, and I'm very happy with the results. Just the other night my repaired stock speaker started popping again, and when I removed the panel I noticed another rip in a different location from my repair. Instead of continuing to chase down tears I decided to fully install the Pioneers on both sides. Too funny that when I got the driver's side speaker out...the one NOT making popping noises...I found that it was ripped 100% around the diameter of the speaker. Holy crap. lol.

Anyway, these Pioneers were a bit smaller than the stock speakers and left small gaps between the speaker and the sheet metal when mounted. While I know this isn't a "sealed" location, I still opted to use some impermeable foam stripping tin the install, as you can see in the pictures. Overall I like the sound a LOT better than the stock. These are high sensitivity speakers (90db) and the sound level is strong. It's nice to have real sound again. It took me about 30 minutes total while half working and half watching the basketball game. These speakers fit with no modification to the speakers or the kick panel cover. Here are just a few pictures.



Stock on the left, Pioneer on the right. You can see my silicone repairs on the stock speaker.





Passenger side kick panel, mounted

[mherington]

SDmike, did you put the tweeters and crossovers in, or just the kicks?

[sdmike1]

SDmike, did you put the tweeters and crossovers in, or just the kicks?

Just the mid-woofers. If I swap out the amp or head unit I'll install the crossover. Right now with the HU and amp stock I didn't want to mess around with it much