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Thread: Install questions:M5 cluster in a 540

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    Install questions:M5 cluster in a 540

    Just installed a used m5 cluster in my 6/96 540i, wondering the next step. No indie's in my area know how to code it so I'm gonna go my own. Anyone with experience know what I need to do?
    thanks,
    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by listed5 View Post
    Just installed a used m5 cluster in my 6/96 540i, wondering the next step. No indie's in my area know how to code it so I'm gonna go my own. Anyone with experience know what I need to do?
    thanks,
    Chris


    Firstly, Don't drive more than 60 miles with it, otherwise you get to deal with a semi-perminant "tamper" dot in the cluster.

    Secondly, you need to get a new cluster (IKE) and have it coded to the chassis and so that the LCM VIN and mileage match the IKEs.

    You'll also need an oil temp sensor and associated wiring so the cluster can get that reading. You'll also need to recode the DME so that it sees and transmits the oil-temperature data to the IKE.


    good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattmartindrift View Post
    Firstly, Don't drive more than 60 miles with it, otherwise you get to deal with a semi-perminant "tamper" dot in the cluster.

    Secondly, you need to get a new cluster (IKE) and have it coded to the chassis and so that the LCM VIN and mileage match the IKEs.

    You'll also need an oil temp sensor and associated wiring so the cluster can get that reading. You'll also need to recode the DME so that it sees and transmits the oil-temperature data to the IKE.


    good luck.
    where in hell do you dig up this information. You are the king of misinformation and what you posted is 99% wrong.

    To the OP, for the M5 cluster to work you need to have it coded with your ZCS and the VIN changed. See if you can find a local board member with the correct software. I'd help if you were close to me.

    When coded correctly all the gauges on the M5 cluster will work except the oil temp gauge and rev warning light.

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    On a related note, I have a used M5 cluster I bought to replace mine (M5) with missing pixels. Will there be any problems with the IKE or DME you mention? Is the dealer the best place to get the swap done?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
    where in hell do you dig up this information. You are the king of misinformation and what you posted is 99% wrong.

    To the OP, for the M5 cluster to work you need to have it coded with your ZCS and the VIN changed. See if you can find a local board member with the correct software. I'd help if you were close to me.

    When coded correctly all the gauges on the M5 cluster will work except the oil temp gauge and rev warning light.

    99%?

    33% correct: the tamper light will be semi-permanent if driven more than 100km (~62mi)

    33% correct: BMW documentation states you need to replace coded modules with new modules coded for the correct mileage and VIN

    33% correct: You need an oil-temp sensor for the oil temp gauge to work (even you said this). The DME won't automatically recognize this sensor and/or properly transmit the data to the IKE for it to interpret and display.


    perhaps your 99% incorrect was a little off?

    Quote Originally Posted by russap5 View Post
    On a related note, I have a used M5 cluster I bought to replace mine (M5) with missing pixels. Will there be any problems with the IKE or DME you mention? Is the dealer the best place to get the swap done?

    M5 to M5 should be simpler as everything is there; however, I never seen anyone successfully code used clusters. Perhaps mr. Schitzo can 99% prove me wrong again and inform you of a way around BMW's programming.
    Last edited by mattmartindrift; 02-19-2010 at 01:07 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Matt is right... he usually is And schitzo you realize that you basically posted exactly what matt said don't you? Just using different, synonymous terminology?

    That is like saying "No, the sun isn't orange. Its a mix of red and yellow"

    To code an M5 cluster to an M5 you just need to have it coded, to get fully functioning features on a non-M is a lot more work

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattmartindrift View Post
    33% correct: the tamper light will be semi-permanent if driven more than 100km (~62mi)

    33% correct: BMW documentation states you need to replace coded modules with new modules coded for the correct mileage and VIN

    the tamper dot can be removed, you are right bmw documentation does says that however its wrong, bmw states the memory on the ike/lcm which stores the vin is permanently burnt. but thanks to china's reverse engineering you can easily recode the vin with pa soft. and with various eeprom programmers you can rewrite the mileage on both the ike and lcm...

    bmw states the tamper dot activates if there is any discrepancy between the ike and the other data sources. however it just seems to come on if the vin on the ike doesn't match the other modules..
    Last edited by ganesht; 02-19-2010 at 06:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ganesht View Post
    the tamper dot can be removed, you are right bmw documentation does says that however its wrong, bmw states the memory on the ike/lcm which stores the vin is permanently burnt. but thanks to china's reverse engineering you can easily recode the vin with pa soft. and with various eeprom programmers you can rewrite the mileage on both the ike and lcm...

    bmw states the tamper dot activates if there is any discrepancy between the ike and the other data sources. however it just seems to come on if the vin on the ike doesn't match the other modules..


    Yeah, I have read a number of things supporting what you've said; hence, "semi-permanent".

    However, given the context of the original post [and me assuming there was a lack of searching], I wouldn't consider the OP to be well versed in Elec. Engineering and the systems at hand.

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    Chris, I have an M5 cluster and as stated above, the rpm lights for oil temp do not work, the oil temp gauge doesn't work, and the water temp gauge sits at almost 3/4 instead of vertical at the 1/2.

    My cluster is not aligned yet, I know a couple of guys that have a GT1 and certain software that should be able to align the cluster and code it for all the necessary corrections. I don't think the oil temp or the water temp will ever be right because of the variation between 540 sensors on the M62 vs the ones used on the S62s, I could be wrong, but that's all I found in my searches. The guys are in Fairfax, i'll let you know soon enough how it turns out for me, and maybe you can make a trip down, Shephardstown is only like 1.5 hours away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJA87 View Post
    Chris, I have an M5 cluster and as stated above, the rpm lights for oil temp do not work, the oil temp gauge doesn't work, and the water temp gauge sits at almost 3/4 instead of vertical at the 1/2.

    My cluster is not aligned yet, I know a couple of guys that have a GT1 and certain software that should be able to align the cluster and code it for all the necessary corrections. I don't think the oil temp or the water temp will ever be right because of the variation between 540 sensors on the M62 vs the ones used on the S62s, I could be wrong, but that's all I found in my searches. The guys are in Fairfax, i'll let you know soon enough how it turns out for me, and maybe you can make a trip down, Shephardstown is only like 1.5 hours away.
    Thanks for the offer! Did buy a used one also? It's my understanding that if you install a used cluster, you can use pa soft to wipe the vin and then recode it, but any gt1 with V48 or newer eliminates the ability to code... pa soft is only ~$100 anyway so I think I'm just going to go ahead and buy it to find out what how it's abilities and how it may affect my cluster. If you find a solution through a shop in Fairfax, I'd be more than happy to make the drive!

    It seems to be that making a used cluster work is entirely possible! I've seen a few people on various boards (through searching) that were successful. Most had someone else code the IKE so they weren't aware of the processes and the dealership doesn't have the "hacker" style software that allows you to recode a used part.
    I'm thinking of buying this unit:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PA-So...motiveQ5fTools

    Claims you can code IKE and correct mileage. I'm not certain of the steps I would have to take to do so, but hoping a fellow forum member could indicate me!
    Thanks,
    Chris

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    there is a software that lets you change the VIN and similar information (miles) on the cluster, BMWScanner i think its called

    i done it myself on mine and im no mechanic (using only a laptop and OBDII port!) only problem for me is the dumbass who originally fitted the clocks got them from a petrol car and mines a diesel. so not only does the rev counter read wrong, so does the speedo and fuel guage never goes to full even after filling the tank (70L)

    assholes

    mine was showin the tamper dot when i got it. i didnt realise they were clocks for a petrol car fitted to a diesel till later on, when i used my tomtom and the speedo reading compared to the satellite speed reading was WAY off (usually only like 3mph out, but this is almost 7mph out regular speeds and even more at some point!!! gets worse the faster you go)

    clocks read 155 and im doing like 136mph

    is there a way to re calibrate the petrol clocks or am i just better off buyign a complete cluster from same year/model car as mien. had enough problems with it already!!! but it still owes me less than its worth so im happy

    btw, to change the vin, click the bit where it says "write FGSTNR" on the IKE unit page, below is a prt screen of the ABS unit page where it shows the write fgstnr button but it is faded out because it is not needed for this unit

    great bit of software, and best thing is you can buy it off ebay for next to nothing, with the correct leads, and it changes mileage, resets faults, lights (airbag and EML) and you can read codes (some softwares dont let you though, so ask seller before buying)



    p.s. does anyone have a link to a GT1 scanner, one that is best to buy? and not too expensive (chinese copy?)

    thanks in advance.

    sorry to rape your thread
    Last edited by cluster; 02-20-2010 at 12:01 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Quote Originally Posted by cluster View Post
    great bit of software, and best thing is you can buy it off ebay for next to nothing, with the correct leads, and it changes mileage, resets faults, lights (airbag and EML) and you can read codes (some softwares dont let you though, so ask seller before buying)
    the pa software is great and all, but IT WILL most likely not allow you to change your mileage...

    cant remember the build dates for the programmable eeprom over the i bus.
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    Mileage isn't so much of a concern, much more interested in regaining my tach and temp gauge... A board member pm'd me that the pa soft will allow you to wipe/change the vin, but a gt1/dis must be used to program the new one. Not sure what the gt1 is needed for, but I guess I'll find out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
    where in hell do you dig up this information. You are the king of misinformation and what you posted is 99% wrong.

    To the OP, for the M5 cluster to work you need to have it coded with your ZCS and the VIN changed. See if you can find a local board member with the correct software. I'd help if you were close to me.

    When coded correctly all the gauges on the M5 cluster will work except the oil temp gauge and rev warning light.

    bump.

    I'm coming back to "semi"-eat my words.


    Recoding the mileage and VIN on a 2000 M5 with a used LCM has eliminated the tamper light and the car has been driven for well over 6 months this way.


    I have also, since this thread, successfully coded an M5 cluster into a 97 or 98 (I forget) 540 and it works exactly as described. All gauges work; however, the "oil temp" is now a vacuum/fuel economy gauge, and the rev warning lights don't function.

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    Thanks for the "update"...but can you spell out what is required (like in steps) to do this. Doesn't need to be precisely detailed...but i can still see some noobs falling on their swords thinking that it's a simple swap...when it appears one still needs to have several ducks aligned in a row to accomplish this. Like software/hardware...and what components need to be recoded etc. to prevent tamper dot illumination and get the instrument cluster's mileage and other gauges to work properly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattmartindrift View Post
    bump.

    I'm coming back to "semi"-eat my words.


    Recoding the mileage and VIN on a 2000 M5 with a used LCM has eliminated the tamper light and the car has been driven for well over 6 months this way.


    I have also, since this thread, successfully coded an M5 cluster into a 97 or 98 (I forget) 540 and it works exactly as described. All gauges work; however, the "oil temp" is now a vacuum/fuel economy gauge, and the rev warning lights don't function.
    glad you are on the same page now

    I all together stopped posting in threads partaining to this issue because I felt like it was futile.
    Last edited by Schitzo; 04-22-2011 at 05:28 PM.

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    Can you take a few photos of the tach actually working on the vehicle ? Actually a video would be better. This goes for anyone with a pre-vanos e39 that has been successful at getting all the gauges or most to work.

    Thing is , OP has a 97 540i, which means non-vanos. It does not matter what software you use. You simply do not have the sensors to switch over and get the tach to work.

    This is what happens for anyone with an older model e39

    - tach will not work
    - speedo will work
    - fuel gauge will work
    - oil temp will not work
    - temp gauge reads off
    - loss of OBC functions (example stopwatch / memo / consumption etc)
    - reverse lights will no longer function if automatic
    - few other misc problems will come up

    I think the swap may be doable on a newer model e39, but I have yet to see proof of it working on an older model.

    not worth the money, just simply get some nice cluster rings and call it a day.

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    ^^ This is the kind of nonsense I was referring to. You absolutely have no legitimate sources to base your comments on yet you are confident posting wrong information. You sure do smoke some good stuff up there!

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    I used NCSexpert. First, you read the cluster's old data and save it using ncsexpert. Then, remove the old cluster. Put in m5 cluster, now write the saved data (from the old cluster) to the m5 cluster. Done.


    The real meat and potatoes is telling the cluster where to look for the data - over CAN or otherwise.

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    It does not work end of story,

    post the video or end discussion

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    Car isn't mine, but the member's car I coded was.a non-vanos car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexkid View Post
    It does not work end of story,

    post the video or end discussion
    Give me an m5 cluster and I would gladly do so.

    PM for mailing address. I'll even return the cluster to you.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexkid View Post
    Can you take a few photos of the tach actually working on the vehicle ? Actually a video would be better. This goes for anyone with a pre-vanos e39 that has been successful at getting all the gauges or most to work.

    Thing is , OP has a 97 540i, which means non-vanos. It does not matter what software you use. You simply do not have the sensors to switch over and get the tach to work.

    This is what happens for anyone with an older model e39

    - tach will not work
    - speedo will work
    - fuel gauge will work
    - oil temp will not work
    - temp gauge reads off
    - loss of OBC functions (example stopwatch / memo / consumption etc)
    - reverse lights will no longer function if automatic
    - few other misc problems will come up

    I think the swap may be doable on a newer model e39, but I have yet to see proof of it working on an older model.

    not worth the money, just simply get some nice cluster rings and call it a day.
    How does the speedo work if the tach does not? It uses different sensors, too. Temp gauge doesn't read off, it uses what bmw calls 'motorsport' damping; so in fact, you're getting a more realistic visual interpretation of the engine's coolant temp.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexkid View Post
    It does not work end of story,

    post the video or end discussion
    +1 Would love to see some videos, never confirmed to see a functioning M5 cluster in a 540

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