Talk me down, guys (Long)

[BoldUlysses]

Remember when I was hot to unload my 6er a few months ago? I was interested in getting 2002beb's black Euro bumper-converted 633 (the one he's now parting out). It wasn't all it cracked up to be in the pictures, so I passed, but the "trading bug" had some momentum, and by the time it subsided I had posted on a couple other forums just to see who would bite.

Nothing came of the threads (at least nothing interesting) so I let them slide and forgot about them for a couple of months.

Well, somebody "bit" earlier this week, and I have to admit I'm really, really tempted to go for it.

It's an '89 Audi 200 turbo quattro:















5cyl turbo, 5sp, AWD w/torsen center and manually-lockable rear diffs, pearl white, sport seats. Perfect interior, near perfect exterior, 118K.

My car's interior needs considerable work, the outside is fine but I'm constantly paranoid about rust, and my car has 255K. If I traded for the Audi I wouldn't be nearly as concerned about rust, and the only exterior changes I'd need to make would be rims and lowering. My 635 needs Euro bumpers, rims, lowering, and rear spoiler, in addition to the interior work (headliner, seats, dash).

You guys know I'm an Audi buff too; I used to own an '86 4000 quattro that I enjoyed greatly:



The other big reason to prefer the Audi is that when we get a house in the next year or so, I'll probably only have room for one project car, and unfortunately that slot is more-or-less destined to be occupied by the '72 Datsun 240Z my dad bought new and gave me the keys to as a college graduation gift. The passenger side floor pan is rusted out and it needs a full down-to-the-shell restoration. It's been sitting in my parents' garage for years, waiting for me to have space and time to work on it, and selling it would devastate my dad. Not only that, it's an awesome car and I want to work on it, you know? If I kept the 6er, needing as much work as it does, and the Z moved in, my attention, not to mention my finances, would be split between the two. If I replaced the 6er with the Audi, I would tinker with it, sure (034 EFI, maybe a 20vt swap), but it would be my daily and wouldn't compete for the position as my "trophy" car. My lineup would be 240Z (project), 200tq (daily) and minivan (family), instead of 240Z (project), 6er (daily AND project) and minivan (family).

I dunno, guys. It's tough. If you've made it this far, thanks for letting me "bend your ear" about the matter.

Cheers,
Matt

[JRanmann]

I dunno, guys. It's tough. If you've made it this far, thanks for letting me "bend your ear" about the matter.

Should we hang him from the yardarm or just remove an ear and hopefully his senses will return?

Your call guys!

[detroit635csi]

id buy it... but then again i might be a bit audi biased

[BoldUlysses]

Should we hang him from the yardarm or just remove an ear and hopefully his senses will return?

Your call guys!

Yeah, let me have it. I'm fully expecting to be tarred-and-feathered for even contemplating this!

id buy it... but then again i might be a bit audi biased

How so? Audi owner?

-Matt

[Nurburger]

I've had a few 200's & they are truly superb cars. The 20v's are definitely the ones that I've enjoyed the most.

If you do go with the Audi, just don't fool yourself into thinking that it will be a far more reliable car - they do fail regularly & the parts can get expensive.

The power steering rack, alternator, turbo/wastegate, multiple electric issues, trim pieces (headliner) and a seriously bad set of USDOT headlights are all considerations you should be aware of. Amazing interiors are very typical - regardless of mileage.

Still, great cars though & I would buy the "right" avant, should it come along...

Good luck.

[dm635]

They are a nice car, when everything is working as it should. Owned one 5000S & it's highly unlikely I'll own another Audi. Don't know how it is now, but I made way too many expensive trips to the dealers parts dept. Couldn't get parts through regular local parts houses. May have just had a bad one, but that was enough. Don't see many of that body style any more. And don't forget that they had an acceleration/throttle issue back in the 80's.

[BoldUlysses]

I've had a few 200's & they are truly superb cars. The 20v's are definitely the ones that I've enjoyed the most.

If you do go with the Audi, just don't fool yourself into thinking that it will be a far more reliable car - they do fail regularly & the parts can get expensive.

The power steering rack, alternator, turbo/wastegate, multiple electric issues, trim pieces (headliner) and a seriously bad set of USDOT headlights are all considerations you should be aware of. Amazing interiors are very typical - regardless of mileage.

Thanks. We'll see what happens. The great thing about trades is that if both parties can't agree to a trade, in the end they both still have awesome cars. That's the bottom line for me, whether or not it works out (or whether or not I want it to work out).

I'm not under any illusions it's going to be more reliable. I love working on cars and honestly don't know what I'd do if I didn't have anything to work on. Part of the draw here is that the Audi is far closer to 100% and that any repairs would be either just that, reparative, or preventative--not restorative like they would be on the 6er. I just feel like I'm playing catch-up, you know?

FWIW, the Audi's owner recently replaced the whole steering rack with the factory part ($$$), so that's taken care of, at least. I love Audi interiors, too.

And don't forget that they had an acceleration/throttle issue back in the 80's.

Myth. Debunked:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/in-...the-audi-5000/

-Matt

[PRJKTGRMN]

i'm a man of both badges so i'm not much help here...

i would never part with my 6, but damn that audi is clean and they are so very hard to find these days.

totally different car though and driving experience, the two just don't compare, but each are great in their own right.

follow your heart and what makes YOU happy.

[flipakine]

Should we hang him from the yardarm or just remove an ear and hopefully his senses will return?

Your call guys!

Hang him haha! Jk I know the delema..sentimemtal value vs your love. I say keep both. buy the audio but keep the 6er. I'm sorry but you will regret kissing her.

[Roku35]

Regardless of the Audi Quatro's good reputation, and having had an Audi myself (a long time ago), now finally owning a nice E24, I would have to say...ARE YOU CRAZY? I've always had my share of nagging problems when I had my 4000cs and wouldn't be afraid to say no thank you sir I'll never have another. IMHO, the coolness factor of the E24 is exponentially greater than the Audi's of the 80s & 90's (see how shallow I can be). They just look terrible. I'd take a clean decent (not perfect) E24 to work on over a spotless Audi Quatro in a heartbeat. Just my two cents.

[flipakine]

Missing her* sorry typing on the eris.

[carsnplanes]

I am partial to the Audi as well . I have had a several Audi 100LS 73 and a 77. Also a 84 5000S , a 86 coupe GT and a 86 5000TQ Avant (pic). I loved them all and yes, I did my share of working on them. The best ones were the coupe GT and the Avant with Quattro. Awesome snow machine. That you show is in great shape. They were built with galvanized sheet metal which is why no rust. I'd say play with that for a while. I'd like to see you in both but ...hey.

You show it's a 200 so you should already have the 20v version. You said you wanted to do a 20 v swap if you got it.

[Taylor Marshall]

The 1989 200 is a SOHC 10 valve. The 20V 200 was only introduced in 1991 and for that one model year only (at least in the USA...not sure if they were available in Europe before but I don't think so...and none were allowed into Canada by our DoT). There were fewer than a thousand total imported into the USA and they were the pinnacle of the Type 44 and the last expression of that chassis.

[BoldUlysses]

Regardless of the Audi Quatro's good reputation, and having had an Audi myself (a long time ago), now finally owning a nice E24, I would have to say...ARE YOU CRAZY? I've always had my share of nagging problems when I had my 4000cs and wouldn't be afraid to say no thank you sir I'll never have another. IMHO, the coolness factor of the E24 is exponentially greater than the Audi's of the 80s & 90's (see how shallow I can be).

I knew you'd weigh in, Carl. I won't argue that the coolness factor is very much on the side of the 6er. It gets the looks. For someone who gets excited almost as much about the mechanical bits as the aesthetics, Audis have always been cool to me, though in a different way. The sleeper appeal is strong with them.

I'd like to see you in both but ...hey.

I'd love to have both, but the finances and space just aren't there at the moment. Maybe when we get our house with the five-car detached garage () I'll be able to go for it.

The 1989 200 is a SOHC 10 valve. The 20V 200 was only introduced in 1991 and for that one model year only (at least in the USA...not sure if they were available in Europe before but I don't think so...and none were allowed into Canada by our DoT). There were fewer than a thousand total imported into the USA and they were the pinnacle of the Type 44 and the last expression of that chassis.

It is indeed a SOHC 10V (engine code MC2). Hence the comment about the 20V swap.

Still not totally sold on the trade. Thanks to everyone for weighing in. Will keep you posted.

-Matt

[Flash635]

Is all wheel drive capability a factor where you live?


Someone once told me that an Audi is a BMW with all the driveability sucked out of it.

[carsnplanes]

They are definitely unsuspecting.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7HmVc9PUTE&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6Y9VclR9Zk[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vefrOFclK0M&feature=related[/ame]

[Taylor Marshall]

They are definitely unsuspecting.

I love it ! Especially the Avanti with the Thule on the roof..... RFLMOL

But those guys must have increased boost, etc because stock the 200 20V (all of them turbo of course like all the 200's ) only makes about 217 HP and weighs about 3200 lbs. No way it's faster than a Viper.

I have pretty well the same motor (the AAN code) in my '94 S4 but it gets 227 HP since it has the POS (don't laugh...that's what it's called) ignition system that finally eliminated caps n rotors in Audi's. It's seriously peppy and with the Quattro drive and a superb rack ( n pinion ...down boys) in a 2900 lb car is really quite tossable for a biggish sedan.

Matt,
I don't think you're going to be able to easily find an AAN motor in good shape to swap in.

[carsnplanes]

I love it ! Especially the Avanti with the Thule on the roof..... RFLMOL

But they those guys must have increased boost, etc because stock the 2K20V (all of them turbo of course like all the 200's ) only makes about 217 HP and weighs about 3200 lbs. No way it's faster than a Viper.

I have pretty well the same motor (the AAN code) in my '94 S4 but it gets 227 HP since it has the POS (don't laugh...that's what it's called) ignition system that finally eliminated caps n rotors in Audi's. It's seriously peppy and with the Quattro drive and a superb rack ( n pinion ...down boys) in a 2900 lb car really quite tossable for a biggish sedan.

Matt,
I don't think you're going to be able to easily find an AAN motor in good shape to swap in.

"But they those guys must have increased boost, etc because stock the 2K20V (all of them turbo of course like all the 200's ) only makes about 217 HP and weighs about 3200 lbs. No way it's faster than a Viper."

Probably so Taylor, but it just goes to show how much potential and ruggedness that motor and car is. Who else would even think to compete with a big block....and win.

Emotions are stirring for another TQ avant. We (my wife) have had for a couple of years now a 98 A6 quattro avant. Not a fan of the 12v V6.

There's somethng about the long ass of the type 44 avant.

[BoldUlysses]

But those guys must have increased boost, etc because stock the 200 20V (all of them turbo of course like all the 200's ) only makes about 217 HP and weighs about 3200 lbs. No way it's faster than a Viper.

Wastegate spring, chip, bigger turbo, injectors, exhaust, etc... The Audi 5-cyls are all basically interchangeable and very customizable. No way it's 3200 lbs, though. The 200 shown in my original post weighs in about the same as the 6er--right at 3400--and your UrS4 is north of 3800.

I don't think you're going to be able to easily find an AAN motor in good shape to swap in.

Maybe not, but that's part of the beauty of Audi 5cyls--they all mix and match to a certain degree. I could add a 20V head from a 7A (much more plentiful) and an aftermarket exhaust manifold, and...all of a sudden it's turned into the project I bought the car to try to avoid.

There's somethng about the long ass of the type 44 avant.

It's definitely got odd proportions, but they're not unappealing. The c-pillar is thinnish, but they still managed to get some "wedge" into the profile.

-Matt

[barry8108]

You can always find another e24, but a clean audi 200 are getting harder to find. i would go for the audi, I had a 90 100 and it was a great car. All audi interiors are way nicer than BMW's. Do the trade and i think u will be happy.

[Taylor Marshall]

and your UrS4 is north of 3800.

Bummer...you're right. I was going off the net weight figure of 1345 kgs stated on the Quebec official registration. I have never in all the cars I've owned and registered here seen that figure be mis-stated on the official registration but they're clearly out to lunch this time.

But this very good site solidly supports you and the door jamb label gives a max laden weight of 2205 kgs so clearly net ain't 1345

http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/troubl...orm.html#other

[BoldUlysses]

But this very good site solidly supports you and the door jamb label gives a max laden weight of 2205 kgs so clearly net ain't 1345

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings... I was going by this:

http://www.audiworld.com/model/s4/94/94-s4.shtml

-Matt

[scottMA 635csi]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/in-defense-of-the-audi-5000/[/URL]

-Matt

thats what toyota said....

[e24mpwr]

LOL - Matt you slay me. That looks like a nice car. My question would be how wallet-hungry it will be during your resto of the Z. Audi looks nice overall, and four doors is nice with a family, but I'd guess you can solve this by flipping a coin - if you're tempted to go for two out of three you know the answer.