Ass-out Tire replacement question

[Kytann]

Hey. I've got a 2001 Z3 3.0 Roadster. 36k miles.
I've also got the 3-piece (or is it 2-piece) BBS looking wheels that were a sport option at the time, 17x7.5 front, 17x8.5 rear.
I've still got the original Dunlop 8080E's on there. Fronts look pretty fine. Rears are pretty much cashed though.

I've been doing searches related to tires and it seems like every post is about getting the max grip for cornering speeds.

Sorry guys, I don't autocross my car. Or race. I do however slide the back end out all of the time. Seems to me like what these cars are made for.

What I like best about the OE 8080E's is that the breakaway characteristics seem to be extremely predictable. That and they've lasted through 36k miles of these kinda antics.

I don't drive it in the deep winter, but I will drive the car through a few light snow falls in the fall and the spring.

Now what I'm looking for in a tire are:
1. Predictable breakaway characteristics. The most like the stiction provided by my old 8080E's would be perfect.
2. Some kinda rim protection for these pretty wheels.
3. Fairly long lasting

Tires I'm considering:
1. BF Goodrich Super Sport A/S
2. Goodyear Eagle GT
3. Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus


Any thoughts on these tires?

I was thinking about going to up my tire size to 235/45R-17 front and 255/40R-17 rear.
For looks really, and to give a little more rim protection on the tire.
I know that'll make it slightly harder to break the rear loose...
That's up only 10mm from stock on each size. My car sits at stock ride height and I have no plan to change it. Again potholes here on MN.



The other thought I had was about putting something like the above on my rear's and something stickier and shorter lived on my fronts. Like Maybe Eagle F1's or something. That way I could slide the back and be pretty sure the front will stick like glue.

Of course in that case four-wheel drifts are out for good. but I've only done that on accident a coupla times. Haven't mastered doing that on purpose.


Anyway, thoughts on tires that are good for my style of ass-out driving?
Thanks



p.s. - I should also say, road noise is an important factor for me, as I love driving top down and wanna hear my exhaust, not my tires

[PbFut]

The harder the tire the more it will slide and not abruptly let go. Soft compounds will grip to a point of release with little noise transmission/warning then let go in an instant. So look to harder compounds, probably in the 220+ range and you will be happy with the handling characteristic as you describe and longevity of the tire. Kuhmo and Hankook both make pretty good 220 tires that are reasonably priced with good grip, wear, and sound qualities.

[Z3Couper]

Originally Posted by PbFut

The harder the tire the more it will slide and not abruptly let go. Soft compounds will grip to a point of release with little noise transmission/warning then let go in an instant. So look to harder compounds, probably in the 220+ range and you will be happy with the handling characteristic as you describe and longevity of the tire. Kuhmo and Hankook both make pretty good 220 tires that are reasonably priced with good grip, wear, and sound qualities.

Solid answer.

[2002Z3]

Originally Posted by PbFut

The harder the tire the more it will slide and not abruptly let go. Soft compounds will grip to a point of release with little noise transmission/warning then let go in an instant. So look to harder compounds, probably in the 220+ range and you will be happy with the handling characteristic as you describe and longevity of the tire. Kuhmo and Hankook both make pretty good 220 tires that are reasonably priced with good grip, wear, and sound qualities.

+2 and for once I have nothing to add.

[VitaminZ]

Sorry to jack the thread, but I need to get a new set of tires for my M roadster. I'm partial to Kuhmo and could use some helping picking the exact model. Maybe the ASX or AST? I don't autocross or anything and I just want a decent quiet tire.

Any input?

[luciano136]

Good info! I have the g-force sport and they grip really well but once they let loose, it's usually too late. It makes exploring the limits on a soft compound tire, kinda spooky.

Actually - and not to hijack this thread- how DO you safely explore the limits of a sticky tire??? Since there is little warning before it lets loose, it's a dangerous undertaking? Lower tire pressure maybe?

Originally Posted by VitaminZ

Sorry to jack the thread, but I need to get a new set of tires for my M roadster. I'm partial to Kuhmo and could use some helping picking the exact model. Maybe the ASX or AST? I don't autocross or anything and I just want a decent quiet tire.

Any input?

I don't have a whole lot to compare to but I did have Kumho's before my g-force sports. They had a V shaped thread pattern and were definitely louder and less sticky than the sports.

[Geo31]

Originally Posted by VitaminZ

Sorry to jack the thread, but I need to get a new set of tires for my M roadster. I'm partial to Kuhmo and could use some helping picking the exact model. Maybe the ASX or AST? I don't autocross or anything and I just want a decent quiet tire.

Any input?

I've had two sets of Kumho SPT on my E46 and think they are the best tire I've had for a road car. Excellent wet/dry grip and reasonably quiet.

Originally Posted by luciano136

Actually - and not to hijack this thread- how DO you safely explore the limits of a sticky tire???

Race track. Sign up for a DE.

[Car54]

Originally Posted by luciano136

Actually - and not to hijack this thread- how DO you safely explore the limits of a sticky tire??? Since there is little warning before it lets loose, it's a dangerous undertaking? Lower tire pressure maybe?

Repeating the same turns, increasing entry-corner-exit speed, over and over. That's why it's nearly impossible to "really" drive on the streets, not many of them loop.

[Sky1Z3]

Hmm... id have to say if you are drifting frequently, and like the characteristics of your tires now.. why not go with the same ones?

I have to agree with the guys, keep the testing the limits of your tires in a safe environment, and not on city streets.

[LAWLence]

Originally Posted by PbFut

The harder the tire the more it will slide and not abruptly let go. Soft compounds will grip to a point of release with little noise transmission/warning then let go in an instant. So look to harder compounds, probably in the 220+ range and you will be happy with the handling characteristic as you describe and longevity of the tire. Kuhmo and Hankook both make pretty good 220 tires that are reasonably priced with good grip, wear, and sound qualities.

I beg to differ. I've found that stickier street tires (the 200 treadwear bunch) tend to be much more progressive than say a 300 treadwear tire which tend to let go like an R Comp would. They do make less noise in an oversteer situation, but they are much more controllable over the limit.

OP - As others have said, try to keep it on the track. I'm guilty of hanging it sideways around turns every once in a while (usually when I haven't been to the track in a long time), but it is a danger to everyone else around you. While you may have superior car control, other people on the streets may not.

You don't necessarily have to sign up for a DE if you just want to hang the ass out, as you said. I recommend drift events/car control clinics. You'll spend enough time sideways to actually get a feel for your car. It will make you a better driver if you ever do decide to attend a DE.
Fact: I've logged over 150 miles in an oversteer situation with the past 2 cars I've owned.

[jbrannon7]

I have a set of Pilot Sport A/Ss on my car now. They have good enough grip for DD but are a little noisey, not as noisey as Extreme Performance tires but not as quiet as most DD tires. I have them on because I dont want my soft compound tires sitting out in the cold over the winter.

Joe

[z3papa]

This is an interesting thread to read in as much as I hated the OE 8080's which were deemed defective on my car and replaced by Dunlop with Goodyear GSD3's for free. The improvement was radical. Can't imagine wanting to have those back.

[Kytann]

Originally Posted by LAWLence

OP - As others have said, try to keep it on the track. I'm guilty of hanging it sideways around turns every once in a while (usually when I haven't been to the track in a long time), but it is a danger to everyone else around you. While you may have superior car control, other people on the streets may not.

*lol* a danger to others.
I'm talking about first gear from a stop type situations. Not drifting the back through a corner. Hard to imagine anything too dangerous about speeds less than 30 mph.
Besides, since when did this forum turn all politically correct?
If I wanted to pay to go to a track, I'd do it on my motorcycle. A whole helluva alot faster and more fun to push the limits on.

Originally Posted by Sky1Z3

Hmm... id have to say if you are drifting frequently, and like the characteristics of your tires now.. why not go with the same ones?

As for why not just go with the same thing again?

1. the 8080E's are expensive
2. I'd like to be able to drive the car in light snow situations as well. Not heavy icy stuff but if it snows while I'm at work I don't wanna be screwed, you know.

Still leaning towards the Eagle GT's. They're a new design as of last year, haven't heard much bad about them, and they're cheap.
About the only negative in the reviews I've read is a slight loss of on-center feel. Which since I can currently seem to feel every single pebble that passes under the front tires may not be such a bad thing to tone down.

Something like $600 installed for the Eagle GTs, $900+ for the 8080E's. That's a big chunk of change for a difference.

[Geo31]

Originally Posted by Kytann

*lol* a danger to others.
I'm talking about first gear from a stop type situations. Not drifting the back through a corner. Hard to imagine anything too dangerous about speeds less than 30 mph.

Grrrrrrr.........

People with tudes like yours simply piss me off.

Yesterday I helped get people out of car that had just been in a rollover accident that happened at less than 30 mph. Stop thinking just about yourself. The street is no place to play "boy racer."

It's interesting that pretty much universally people who have racing/track experience see the folly in such antics that you're talking about.

[Kytann]

Originally Posted by Geo31

Grrrrrrr.........

People with tudes like yours simply piss me off.

Yesterday I helped get people out of car that had just been in a rollover accident that happened at less than 30 mph. Stop thinking just about yourself. The street is no place to play "boy racer."

It's interesting that pretty much universally people who have racing/track experience see the folly in such antics that you're talking about.

Whatever dude. Get off of your high and mighty horse.

If you're that scared of your car that you think you're going to flip over at less than 30 mph then I feel sorry for you.

I bet you never ever break the speed limit either?

I've been driving for 20 years. Haven't had any grannys run out in front my me yet on the street, or any crashes due to my 'crazy antics'.
Hell haven't even gotten a ticket for it. Must be doing something right.

I came here for some tire advice, not a lecture about my driving habits. When getting tire advice you have to be honest with your driving style. If that offends you then so be it.

[smackin]

Sounds like Kytann is looking for inexpensive tires, so this is directed to others looking at the thread. Just put on a set of Michelin Pilot Sports PS2's Tires that do it all! Awesome grip and handling, very compliant ride. Only downside is the cost and the blah tread pattern. I guess Michelin is concentrating more on the quality and purpose of the tread, than the look.

[Geo31]

Kytann, you're a real class act laughing about being a danger to others and when someone points out that indeed at 30mph you can be in a very serious accident you get snotty. You even laughed about taking to the proper venue. Grow up.

[Kytann]

Originally Posted by Geo31

Kytann, you're a real class act laughing about being a danger to others and when someone points out that indeed at 30mph you can be in a very serious accident you get snotty. You even laughed about taking to the proper venue. Grow up.

You're funny. Coming in here shitting all over my thread acting all superior.

what is your problem anyway? inferiority complex? do you happen to be a short man or something?

You have no idea how I drive, and no place to put any sort of judgement on my driving style.
That's what the Police are for, not you.

I think my record speaks for itself, which I discussed in a previous post.


As for whether I'm classy or not, who is the one causing trouble here?
Didn't your mom teach you "if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all"

Just go away and let some productive discussion about tires take place and quit spreading your vitriol

[Z3Couper]

Originally Posted by Kytann

You're funny. Coming in here shitting all over my thread acting all superior.

what is your problem anyway? inferiority complex? do you happen to be a short man or something?

You have no idea how I drive, and no place to put any sort of judgement on my driving style.
That's what the Police are for, not you.

I think my record speaks for itself, which I discussed in a previous post.


As for whether I'm classy or not, who is the one causing trouble here?
Didn't your mom teach you "if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all"

Just go away and let some productive discussion about tires take place and quit spreading your vitriol

Chill out bro. He made a fair point, no matter how accurate it may be. Your attitude is unwelcome in the Z3 sub-forum. Just drop it. Nobody wants to see this crap.

[smackin]

^^ :

[Kytann]

Originally Posted by Z3Couper

Chill out bro. He made a fair point, no matter how accurate it may be. Your attitude is unwelcome in the Z3 sub-forum. Just drop it. Nobody wants to see this crap.

Funny. Just dropping it was what I was asking of Geo31.

On a side note:

One of my original questions was never answered:

would any problems arise by going up 10mm in size front and rear to
235/45R-17 front
255/40R-17 rear

on the stock Style 42 cross-spoke wheels,
17x7.5 front
17x8.5 rear


?

[Z3Couper]

Originally Posted by Kytann

Funny. Just dropping it was what I was asking of Geo31.

On a side note:

One of my original questions was never answered:

would any problems arise by going up 10mm in size front and rear to
235/45R-17 front
255/40R-17 rear

on the stock Style 42 cross-spoke wheels,
17x7.5 front
17x8.5 rear


?

Good deal. I'm not sure what the right answer is to your question. You may have rubbed somebody the wrong way who knows the answer, but hopefully somebody will give you an answer anyway. You may be able to figure out the answer with this.

[luciano136]

Originally Posted by Kytann

Funny. Just dropping it was what I was asking of Geo31.

On a side note:

One of my original questions was never answered:

would any problems arise by going up 10mm in size front and rear to
235/45R-17 front
255/40R-17 rear

on the stock Style 42 cross-spoke wheels,
17x7.5 front
17x8.5 rear


?

Are your stock sizes 225 F / 245 R ?

I believe tirerack.com has the a whole sizing chart per tire. I think 255 might be the max on that rim. I've been thinking about it as well since my car gets a bit tail happy with 245s.

[Car54]

Size is less important than compound if you're looking for grip. If you're looking for adverse weather grip, narrow is generally better. My advice is to buy the best tires you can afford that fit the rims you have. Every tire has a sizing chart, try going to the manufacturer's site.

[Kytann]

Originally Posted by luciano136

Are your stock sizes 225 F / 245 R ?

I believe tirerack.com has the a whole sizing chart per tire. I think 255 might be the max on that rim. I've been thinking about it as well since my car gets a bit tail happy with 245s.

Yes 225 & 245 are my stick sizes.

I've looked at the sizing charts. They say less that half of an inch size difference. Which means less than a quarter
inch on each side.

I know some guys fit 275s on the roadstars? Seems like going up to 255 wouldn't make much difference.

I've read lots of tirerack info. Till my eyes hurt pretty much.

The other question is to buy them from Sears or Discount Tire...