what are characteristics of oil smoke from turbo or engine?

[rt turbo]

Im trying to find the characteristics here on when and how it will put smoke out the exhaust. I always thought that a turbo leaking oil would smoke mostly on decel or at a stop. A turbo can leak either out the exhaust side, compressor side, or both. so I guess if it leaked one side only it would have a different time when it smokes. next, the motor can cause oil smoke from bad rings, valve seals or guides, or head gasket. However, if the motor were the cause of burning off oil, the plugs would reflect this correct? They would be black and not the whitish of normal correct?

The reason I ask is that my car is still smoking. it smokes some on decel, some at a stop, and more when I give it some load. The smoking when I give it load concerns me. Im not giving enough load to boost it, but just to accelerate. I checked all plugs and they appear normal. slightly a hint of white and nothing that would lead me to believe alot of oil burning in the cylinders.

I just want to know what the characteristics are for each source of oil burning.

[Colby Colbs]

maybe she wants boost?

[Ryan-N-Austin]

decel only is usually motor, smoke under accel and decel would tell me you have bad seals in your turbo. If you're running a true GT35R you may have blown the seals if you didnt install an inline oil restrictor ?

[rt turbo]

I have a restrictor, but the turbo is clocked too much. I know this and I am working to get it corrected. My car hardly smokes on decel, just a tiny bit. most is on accel.

[bigbeansm3]

Can you do a compression test?

I would think it's the turbo. If it were coming through the head (seals/guides) you'd smoke on decel and shifts (high vacuum conditions). Sometimes PCV/valve cover breather problems can do this too. I'm not familiar with BMW PCVs, but it would be something to think about.

[DTRguy]

Turbo smoking usually comes from the dynamic seals from what I have experienced/been told. If when you pull in and out on the turbo shaft it moves in and out, there is a possibility that the dynamic seals are either gone, or can't do their job keeping oil out of the turbine housing. I saw this frequently when my turbo's were going south on my old Golf. Some smoke at idle (when hot), little bit of smoke while accel, and TONS on decel... but I had a recirc system that would blow the boost back into the intake of the turbo which in my mind was also creating some of the problem by thrusting the turbo shaft the opposite direction allowing oil to fly past the dynamic seal. When your engine is running can you pull off your oil fill cap and rev the engine to see if you have a lot of blowby? You shouldn't feel that much if any blowing out of that hole.

[rt turbo]

I opened the oil cap and had someone rev it, no pressure came out at all. there was just a hint of vacuum.

[NickG]

Originally Posted by rt turbo

I opened the oil cap and had someone rev it, no pressure came out at all. there was just a hint of vacuum.

Describe your PCV/crankcase system. Where is this vacuum that you feel generated from?

[rt turbo]

Originally Posted by NickG

Describe your PCV/crankcase system. Where is this vacuum that you feel generated from?

that was a very slight vacuum, and I felt it from the oil cap. I have removed the cyclone separator setup and I use a 5/8 barbed oil catch canister hooked into the outlet that the cyclone separator. the other side of the catch can goes to the intake side pre-turbo. I am not catching any oil, and I get no blow by. everything else is stock. new valve guides, new seals.

after thinking about it, the vacuum is likely drawn from the catch can routing into the intake.

[NickG]

Originally Posted by rt turbo

that was a very slight vacuum, and I felt it from the oil cap. I have removed the cyclone separator setup and I use a 5/8 barbed oil catch canister hooked into the outlet that the cyclone separator. the other side of the catch can goes to the intake side pre-turbo. I am not catching any oil, and I get no blow by. everything else is stock. new valve guides, new seals.

after thinking about it, the vacuum is likely drawn from the catch can routing into the intake.

So is the stock cyclone separator still attached to the intake manifold?

[ramzisleiman]

why dont u check the piping for oil remains. if its the turbo the piping should have some oil in them.

[So Live]

Originally Posted by ramzisleiman

why dont u check the piping for oil remains. if its the turbo the piping should have some oil in them.

If the compressor side leaks.

The way i see it theres two sides to every turbo. So the turbine seal can be bad an the compr side not be.

I agree, im not sure if your running the cyclone seperator on the Cover or not. was running a -6AN line and had CCV issues. Now running a -12AN and ive had no issues since (even with the old turbo that puked oil into the charge pipes)

[ramzisleiman]

Originally Posted by So Live

If the compressor side leaks.

The way i see it theres two sides to every turbo. So the turbine seal can be bad an the compr side not be.

I agree, im not sure if your running the cyclone seperator on the Cover or not. was running a -6AN line and had CCV issues. Now running a -12AN and ive had no issues since (even with the old turbo that puked oil into the charge pipes)

Im just saying check the charge pipes! this way u will minimize the options you have.

[So Live]

This is very true dude!! I wasnt trying to say you were wrong or its a bad idea at all! Sorry if it came out that way!!!

[ramzisleiman]

Originally Posted by So Live

This is very true dude!! I wasnt trying to say you were wrong or its a bad idea at all! Sorry if it came out that way!!!

Not al all bro!.. no worries

[So Live]

Originally Posted by ramzisleiman

Not al all bro!.. no worries

Haha good deal man!

OP good luck getting it sorted. Ive had my fair share of shitty oil problems/leaks. Its never a lot of fun sorting them out. I actually had the same issues as you but ended up replacing the motor AND the turbo so i cant really comment on what fixed it.

And how is your oil drain set up? Definitely not horizontal and above the oil level or is there a pump? I think if your drain is OK and the CCV is ok and the motor checks out ok w/ leak down it is very likely its the turbo... But i could be wrong...

[SiGmA]

Andy's turbo is clocked over pretty far, maybe 25-30*? That could be part of the issue.

Andy, could you explain your CCV setup better? I am running a 5/8" (-10 size) hose from the stock OBD1 valve cover to a catch can to my exhaust and I have no CCV issues. I am also running basically the same size turbo (SC61 vs GT35R) on a SPA like you are, but mine is clocked nearly straight up and down, and I have zero smoke.

[rt turbo]

Originally Posted by NickG

So is the stock cyclone separator still attached to the intake manifold?

nope, the separator is gone.

Originally Posted by SiGmA

Andy's turbo is clocked over pretty far, maybe 25-30*? That could be part of the issue.

Andy, could you explain your CCV setup better? I am running a 5/8" (-10 size) hose from the stock OBD1 valve cover to a catch can to my exhaust and I have no CCV issues. I am also running basically the same size turbo (SC61 vs GT35R) on a SPA like you are, but mine is clocked nearly straight up and down, and I have zero smoke.

yeah, its about 30-35 *. I am reclocking it once I get the chance (not driving it until then). My CCv is not a -10 line. I thought it was 5/8, but after looking its about a 3/8-1/2 hose. Ive run these on past cars without issues. Im not running it to the exhaust. Im running to the intake preturbo. Ive seen many running it this way and some that just run the little crank vent filter.

my car didnt smoke at all when I put the first 100 miles on her. she slowly started with puffs, then hard core when I overfilled the oil. she didnt stop after I removed oil, so I think the seals are done. I have not boosted it at all yet so I dont think its blowing oil from the compressor side.

[rt turbo]

Here is my catch can setup. what could cause problems from this? The other side goes to the intake (pre-turbo) pipe.





this is my drain setup. from what garrett says, 15* should be max. it is clocked 30-35*:

from what

[SiGmA]

I'm not so convinced seals die that quickly, but maybe they do on
dbb's. My journal bearing Spa was clocked like yours for 2k and smoked mildly, which went away when I reclocked it.

What I'd do is reclock the turbo, and
disconnect the breather from the valve cover entirely. Put a rag over it so it can vent and not make a mess. If the smoke goes away, put the ccv back on and see how it goes. If it doesn't, have the turbo seals replaced.

[rt turbo]

Originally Posted by SiGmA

I'm not so convinced seals die that quickly, but maybe they do on
dbb's. My journal bearing Spa was clocked like yours for 2k and smoked mildly, which went away when I reclocked it.

What I'd do is reclock the turbo, and
disconnect the breather from the valve cover entirely. Put a rag over it so it can vent and not make a mess. If the smoke goes away, put the ccv back on and see how it goes. If it doesn't, have the turbo seals replaced.

well, the thing with the dbbs, they dont have seals like a journal does. it is a small metal ring that is more meant to keep exhaust gasses out. that is why they are touchy. any excessive pressure or oil backing up will leak. I dont think it has destroyed the ring yet. Im hoping that the clocking will stop the leaking.

Also, what is your definition of mildly smoking? I am not used to smoke at all, so my definition may be similar to what you saw? I dunno.

Also, I am buying this catch can. Mine was an ebay cheapy that was cheaper than this obx one. This obx unit has large 5/8 openings. The one on now is much smaller and the fittings themselves close to less than a 1/4" going into the can. so maybe it is not large enough?

BTW, what is the concept of what is happening with the CCV? What would happen to it to make the motor smoke? Just am curious to see if I misunderstand it or not.

[SiGmA]

My smoking wasn't constant, mostly under boost iirc.

I have an eBay greddy knock off can that I tapped for 1/2npt fittings with 5/8" barbs. Honestly a 3/8" hose should be fine with good leakdown numbers...

[rt turbo]

Originally Posted by SiGmA

My smoking wasn't constant, mostly under boost iirc.

I have an eBay greddy knock off can that I tapped for 1/2npt fittings with 5/8" barbs. Honestly a 3/8" hose should be fine with good leakdown numbers...

thats what im thinking. and I dont think my smoking is result of the motor. I may try a compression test and leakdown just to rule it out.

[5mall5nail5]

Somebody say smoke?

YouTube

YouTube

[rt turbo]

yeah, its nothing like that ^

well, the one night I overfilled it was. this sucks, it didnt start this until I changed the oil to castrol ctx conventional.