Does anyone have a link to rebuild instructions for any medium case diff and Limited Slip units? I need to know what the proper backlash and spacing is, etc. All ive found online are examples out of Chevy's and Ford's.
Also where can i get replacement clutches for the limited slip, other then the expensive ones from Bimmerworld. Thank you.
You are not going to find that info. The people that know aren't going to tell you. (Diffsonline, Matrix Motorsports, Stickley, Metric Mechanic...) It's their business.
I think Dan at diffsonline will sell the parts.
No matter where you go, there you are...
Notes
Fig. 20 Ring gear & pinion tooth contact inspection. Models w/Gleason gears
Fig. 21 Ring gear & pinion tooth contact inspection. Models w/Klingelnberg gears
Fig. 22 Ring Gear & Pinion Tooth Contact Correction Chart
Proper ring gear and pinion tooth contact is essential for proper rear axle operation. After performing basic adjustments outlined previously, slight modifications may be required to ensure proper contact. Tooth contact is adjusted by making modifications to the pinion depth and ring gear backlash settings.
Coat drive and coast face of each ring gear tooth with a suitable marking compound.
Apply braking force to ring gear and turn pinion to rotate ring gear several revolutions in each direction.
Examine tooth contact on models with Gleason gears referring to Fig. 20, and note the following:
Illustration ``A'' shows proper contact without load on gears, while ``A1'' shows proper pattern with gears loaded. Loading gears will shift contact pattern outward slightly.
Illustration ``1,'' high narrow contact pattern, indicates excessive pinion depth. Increase pinion depth shim and increase backlash setting slightly to compensate.
Illustration ``2,'' deep narrow contact, indicates insufficient pinion depth. Decrease thickness of pinion depth shim and reduce backlash slightly to compensate.
Illustration ``3,'' short contact pattern on toe end of ring gear, indicates insufficient backlash. Increase backlash, and if further correction is required increase thickness of pinion depth shim slightly.
Illustration ``4,'' short contact pattern on heel of ring gear, indicates excessive backlash. Decrease backlash, and if further correction is required, decrease thickness of pinion depth shim slightly.
Examine tooth contact pattern on models with Klingelnberg gear referring to Fig. 21, and note the following:
Proper tooth contact pattern without load is shown in ``B,'' and proper contact with load on gears is shown in ``C.''
Pattern shown in ``D'' can be corrected by decreasing pinion depth shim thickness (moving pinion away from ring gear) and slightly decreasing backlash to compensate.
Pattern shown in ``E'' can be corrected by increasing pinion shim thickness (moving pinion toward ring gear) and slightly increasing backlash to compensate.
Other possible incorrect contact patterns and the necessary corrections are shown in Fig. 22.
Perform indicated corrections in assembly adjustments, ensure pinion preload and total assembly preload are properly adjusted, then recheck contact pattern. If pinion depth shim must be replaced, use new collapsible spacer when installing
Damn, let me figure out how to get the pics up
****Edit, figure out what gears you have and ill print the pics and fax them
Last edited by JohnnyBgood95; 11-20-2009 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
SicNA94teggsr, where is that from? TIS?
Though you know what, youre exactly right, i asked Dan from Diffsonline and he said they "didnt share" their specs. Im sure theyre great to deal with when youre throwing money at them, but its selfish that they can get business from this forum and but not share their knowledge with any of us. The reason im here is so that i dont have to send my differential to guys like that.
So does anyone have this secret information?
Also is there a part # for the limited slip clutches? I would think they would be less then $75, though i really dont have anything to compare to.
Last edited by sirius600; 11-24-2009 at 10:14 PM.
Are you kidding? Dan built a business around this, and you expect him to share info for free so he can lose business? I'm not sure how you feel this is your "right" to have the info for free? If Dan discovered it (probably many many hours of his time and effort) you can as well. Or ask BMW ... maybe they'll tell you for free.
Having said that, a dude posted a pretty complete rebuild DIY on here a few years ago ... Turbo555 or something was his username.
Last edited by ScotcH; 11-20-2009 at 10:53 AM.
Walk a mile in my shoes and you are a mile away in someone else's shoes.
Goodridge*UUC sways* Black TME's and mounts( switched from Red)* x-brace*brembo rotors*Zimmerman rear*Pagid*Riken Raptors* Roja Formula 7's (Bronze)* Stromung*Powdercoated AA DSB* OMP strut bar*GC RSM's* M3 alum/leather knob*JTD underpanel *Traffic PRO (sold) *Black hella Ellipsoids w/celis rings * ACS Pedals*ACS handbrake*RE Octane SSK*Wheelskins Eurotones S/ Wheel Cover( tossed-replaced with new one)* Totally Covers Front seat velour covers with custom styling *Rieger roof spoiler-lost it on fwy Stock A/B*URI CP (ditched years ago)*540 HFM (sold) Stock HFM (BeckArnley)*FMS 24 lb inj*Alum rad and some other stuff*Konis w/adj rr's*Vogtland springs ** Passport 8500(sold)*Passpprt 7500 (sold V1-1.8 with POP) No detectors at all.
Coming...nada
BMWCCA-303681
The TIS can be a great help. Refer to the E30 M3 sections. By the time of the E36, they wanted dealers to remove and replace, not repair. And if you don't have it, find a Chevy dealer that carries GM Gear Lash Paste. It's bright yellow and makes it easy to see. (not all dealers carry it.) In SoCal I think I got mine from either a Huntington Beach or Long Beach dealer. (it was in '05 when I rebuilt one, and I too kept hitting walls looking for info. Ford, Chevy, Dodge way easy, Bimmer's..Secret Handshake Society)
Some links in the link in my Siggy may help....
John
'95 Hellrot M3 w/Dove
AA Euro HFM Stage II (w/21# Injectors & Software) W/Gen III Exhaust - URI Crank Pully - FDM w/3 Row M Coupe Rad - 3.23 LSD - Vogtland Club Spec/Koni SA - UUC Red w/Enforcers - TMS Shims/Rear Camber Bars w/QA1 inners/Sways - VMC F/TMS R End Links - X-Brace - Perf Ultimate/SS Brake Lines - GC Tower Mounts/RTAB Shims - ZKW's w/5000K Hid - Fog Delete - Alpine 9847/Pioneer TS-C130R Kevlar Components/Pioneer PRS-X340/Stealth Box's/Wired Zune 120GB - OE LTW CF Sills/Glove Box Plate - Staggered Black M-Spoke II's w/235/40 (front), 255/40 (Rear) Nitto NT05's - Rolled Fenders!
***Got a '95 M3? (actually pretty common on all years! Even happened to Racer Seth Thomas! ) Check Your LSD! http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=390209
waiting for pictures, as I would LOVE to rebuild a diff I have sitting in garage that's all messed up
"Torque is like cowbell... you can never have too much." - Michael Cervi
in for info, in a thread thats actually worth reading, YAY
-Andrew Mensah
looks like both clutchs for our 188mm diff would be $175 from bimmerworld.
Hmm...
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
-Dr. Seuss
DIY BMW Tools. Charlie For President
Yes i do expect them to share their knowledge when it comes to helping forum members that they are otherwise exploiting for their business. i guarantee you THAT I WILL POST UP THE BACKLASH MEASUREMENTS FOR MY GEAR SWAP AND I HOPE YOU ALL DO THE SAME IF THE OPPORTUNITY PRESENTS. Enough secrets.
I found this one: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=894366
Do you have the link for the other thread your talking about.
Secret handshake, lol. Though youre right, it really is like that, kinda sad. Thanks for the help. I found another page which recommended printers ink, though ill check out the paste.
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/ring_and_pinions/ring_and_pinion_installation_instructions.html
Also a noob question: how do you use a dial indicator?
Last edited by sirius600; 11-20-2009 at 06:51 PM.
I'm part of the community and the forums, and I have no problem at all with sharing info, but I don't expect a business whose sole way to make money is the info you're looking for
Anyway, here is the thread I was talking about (it was Tommy R): http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...t=diff+rebuild
I would just Google that exact question, its really pretty easy. Important thing is to Zero it out properly so you have your baseline. (I don't have one but know how I'd use it)
Have you pinged a dealer or pelican on plates? Curious....
ScottH, I'm in that thread and have it linked in my siggy story I'm sure. It helped a bit....but not enough.
Last edited by JETninja; 11-20-2009 at 08:38 PM.
John
'95 Hellrot M3 w/Dove
AA Euro HFM Stage II (w/21# Injectors & Software) W/Gen III Exhaust - URI Crank Pully - FDM w/3 Row M Coupe Rad - 3.23 LSD - Vogtland Club Spec/Koni SA - UUC Red w/Enforcers - TMS Shims/Rear Camber Bars w/QA1 inners/Sways - VMC F/TMS R End Links - X-Brace - Perf Ultimate/SS Brake Lines - GC Tower Mounts/RTAB Shims - ZKW's w/5000K Hid - Fog Delete - Alpine 9847/Pioneer TS-C130R Kevlar Components/Pioneer PRS-X340/Stealth Box's/Wired Zune 120GB - OE LTW CF Sills/Glove Box Plate - Staggered Black M-Spoke II's w/235/40 (front), 255/40 (Rear) Nitto NT05's - Rolled Fenders!
***Got a '95 M3? (actually pretty common on all years! Even happened to Racer Seth Thomas! ) Check Your LSD! http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=390209
I've never seen that one. Reasonable since I don't frequent the 5 series forums.
Much better for internals than the other one I referenced.
A dial indicator is placed/fixed where the measuring tip is positioned against the piece to be worked on and the pointer set to 0.
Walk a mile in my shoes and you are a mile away in someone else's shoes.
Goodridge*UUC sways* Black TME's and mounts( switched from Red)* x-brace*brembo rotors*Zimmerman rear*Pagid*Riken Raptors* Roja Formula 7's (Bronze)* Stromung*Powdercoated AA DSB* OMP strut bar*GC RSM's* M3 alum/leather knob*JTD underpanel *Traffic PRO (sold) *Black hella Ellipsoids w/celis rings * ACS Pedals*ACS handbrake*RE Octane SSK*Wheelskins Eurotones S/ Wheel Cover( tossed-replaced with new one)* Totally Covers Front seat velour covers with custom styling *Rieger roof spoiler-lost it on fwy Stock A/B*URI CP (ditched years ago)*540 HFM (sold) Stock HFM (BeckArnley)*FMS 24 lb inj*Alum rad and some other stuff*Konis w/adj rr's*Vogtland springs ** Passport 8500(sold)*Passpprt 7500 (sold V1-1.8 with POP) No detectors at all.
Coming...nada
BMWCCA-303681
I just rebuilt the internals of my OEM bmw LSD unit. I did not have to set up lash, etc as i used existing LSD case, and ring and pinion (and existing shims)
this is what happened to the original unit after 4 trackday and lots of motorsports events since June. notice no more splines on the friction disc!
I was noticing a dragging sensation and jacked up 1 rear wheel to notice no locking at all. hm......failed LSD?
minimal metal flakes from the worn friction discs, although im sure some people have had pretty ugly situations to clean up.
I also converted it from a 2 plate to a 4 plate unit, was just a matter of exchanging a metal spacer for plate+shim on each side.
all BMW LSD parts are same: e30,32,34,36: I used some e32 parts (washers, etc) as they were less worn than my stock e36 parts.
clutch plates/shims
worn diff insides stacked; replaced entire stack with clean fresh un-tracked items from spare LSD unit.
completed S3.38 with 4 clutches
as for clutches:
seems like this:
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...layCatalogid=1
or this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-LSD-Drive-Plates-%28Set-of-4%29---NEW-ZF-Replica-Parts_W0QQitemZ150388186676QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20 091112?IMSfp=TL091112182001r35118
Last edited by wanganstyle; 11-24-2009 at 10:26 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Wanganstyle Powertrain
http://www.wanganstyle.com/
S54B32 E36 M3 DTA S100 Sedan Street car full swap:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471
Bravo, we needed more on this diy, thanks.
Walk a mile in my shoes and you are a mile away in someone else's shoes.
Goodridge*UUC sways* Black TME's and mounts( switched from Red)* x-brace*brembo rotors*Zimmerman rear*Pagid*Riken Raptors* Roja Formula 7's (Bronze)* Stromung*Powdercoated AA DSB* OMP strut bar*GC RSM's* M3 alum/leather knob*JTD underpanel *Traffic PRO (sold) *Black hella Ellipsoids w/celis rings * ACS Pedals*ACS handbrake*RE Octane SSK*Wheelskins Eurotones S/ Wheel Cover( tossed-replaced with new one)* Totally Covers Front seat velour covers with custom styling *Rieger roof spoiler-lost it on fwy Stock A/B*URI CP (ditched years ago)*540 HFM (sold) Stock HFM (BeckArnley)*FMS 24 lb inj*Alum rad and some other stuff*Konis w/adj rr's*Vogtland springs ** Passport 8500(sold)*Passpprt 7500 (sold V1-1.8 with POP) No detectors at all.
Coming...nada
BMWCCA-303681
wanganstyle,
How about some feedback when your done with it on how it works and feels compared to the old 2 disc, and then put together a proper DIY and get it towed to the DIY forum.
When re-using the same case, gears, shims, etc it's pretty simple since you've not changed any of the variables. (just don't mix up what shim went to what side!)
I have some extra plates sitting around, I may try this someday in the future, specially if I go FI.
John
'95 Hellrot M3 w/Dove
AA Euro HFM Stage II (w/21# Injectors & Software) W/Gen III Exhaust - URI Crank Pully - FDM w/3 Row M Coupe Rad - 3.23 LSD - Vogtland Club Spec/Koni SA - UUC Red w/Enforcers - TMS Shims/Rear Camber Bars w/QA1 inners/Sways - VMC F/TMS R End Links - X-Brace - Perf Ultimate/SS Brake Lines - GC Tower Mounts/RTAB Shims - ZKW's w/5000K Hid - Fog Delete - Alpine 9847/Pioneer TS-C130R Kevlar Components/Pioneer PRS-X340/Stealth Box's/Wired Zune 120GB - OE LTW CF Sills/Glove Box Plate - Staggered Black M-Spoke II's w/235/40 (front), 255/40 (Rear) Nitto NT05's - Rolled Fenders!
***Got a '95 M3? (actually pretty common on all years! Even happened to Racer Seth Thomas! ) Check Your LSD! http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=390209
Holy crap that is awesome! So the thick spacer you just replaced with another clutch and plate from an identical limited slip? Do you have any more pics?
I know if i simply pull it apart and reuse the 3.23 thats in there, i wont have to deal with backlash and alignment issues. Though heres the thing, i have a 3.46 diff out of a 528, and want to transfer the ring and pinion into my differential. Now using Alldata from my friends shop, i found these pages describing the process of using a BMW special tool to mount a dial gauge in the arbor giving you a zero reading on the center line, then using a set of formulas, along with a modifier number stamped on the pinion, you will find what is the ideal shim size for that particular pinion. Even then you need to use gear lashing paint to set the ring position properly. Does anyone know where to find the tool shown in the pictures? Also where can i find gear lashing paint? Those with the TIS will find the same instructions under 'rear axle'.
sure. Let me go do some trackdays and report on how my progress is post, I am a noob to rebuilding/reconfigure rear diff, and figured I should at least test out my theory/actions first.
As far as comparing it to my 2 plate, it was pretty worn (145k, and dead after the last 4 trackdays/autox event that was heavy on drifting - power over DOT R's FTW). Comparing to a Good BMW 2 plate, the 4 disc conversion bites a bit more aggressively- I figured I would do it simply for wear, as my car sees alot of motorsports time.
as far as DIY for conversion to 4 plate; the E30 guys have it down already;
about as easy as rebuilding the thing in general, theres a spacer on each side, 1 clutch plate and 1 thinner spacer are exactally the same size. just remove thick steel plate, replace with clutch+thinner plate = same thickness
Wanganstyle Powertrain
http://www.wanganstyle.com/
S54B32 E36 M3 DTA S100 Sedan Street car full swap:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471
ran Laguna last week, was pretty good. will change fluid before I run it again this coming week and report back.
Wanganstyle Powertrain
http://www.wanganstyle.com/
S54B32 E36 M3 DTA S100 Sedan Street car full swap:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471
Just a heads up on changing the Ring Gear (done it!) Those bolts are Red Loctited on. I don't have air tools, so I headed off to a garage. First garage I went too, his Impact couldn't budge a single one. So I headed to Pep-Boys, Mech there tried first gun, no luck. Then he got a monster one, after some work we got 2 of the 10 (IIRC) bolts. Couldn't budge anymore. So I went to my neighbor...he's a cool old dude with a Concrete Pumper business and lots of tools. We pondered it a bit, he dug out a cheap and not opened up yet air tool kit, we got the gun, hooked up a line, regulator w/valve and hooked it up to a Nitrogen tank (2000lbs pressure) While he worked the gun, I worked the valve, IIRC it was somewhere around 500psi when they started moving. Got them all off in a couple minutes. YMMV.....
I mentioned Gear Paste, its bright yellow and GM sells it, but not all dealers carry it. You have to ask around. I think I got mine at the Huntington Beach dealer back in '05....
John
'95 Hellrot M3 w/Dove
AA Euro HFM Stage II (w/21# Injectors & Software) W/Gen III Exhaust - URI Crank Pully - FDM w/3 Row M Coupe Rad - 3.23 LSD - Vogtland Club Spec/Koni SA - UUC Red w/Enforcers - TMS Shims/Rear Camber Bars w/QA1 inners/Sways - VMC F/TMS R End Links - X-Brace - Perf Ultimate/SS Brake Lines - GC Tower Mounts/RTAB Shims - ZKW's w/5000K Hid - Fog Delete - Alpine 9847/Pioneer TS-C130R Kevlar Components/Pioneer PRS-X340/Stealth Box's/Wired Zune 120GB - OE LTW CF Sills/Glove Box Plate - Staggered Black M-Spoke II's w/235/40 (front), 255/40 (Rear) Nitto NT05's - Rolled Fenders!
***Got a '95 M3? (actually pretty common on all years! Even happened to Racer Seth Thomas! ) Check Your LSD! http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=390209
Here's a couple of links that might be helpful to some.
http://www.factory3performance.com/p...eplacement.pdf
http://www.e30eta.com/ecdiff.htm
GrifM3
Also, when you do the 4 plate clutch conversion the feel of engagement and engagement point of the diff will change, Mine is set on the tight side, did some wet skidpad testing and the car loves to kick the rear around and then sit smokey and the bandit style.
Wanganstyle Powertrain
http://www.wanganstyle.com/
S54B32 E36 M3 DTA S100 Sedan Street car full swap:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471
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