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Thread: Pros & Cons about obd1 and obd2

  1. #1
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    Pros & Cons about obd1 and obd2

    Anyone can explain me pros & cons about obd1(95M3) and
    obd2(96~99M3) ?

    I heard obd1 is faster than obd2. Is that true?
    I need informations about obd1 and 2.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    OBDI requires a 'chip' for ECU performance mods.
    OBDI has two O2 sensors.

    OBDII required ECU 'flash' for ECU performance mods.
    OBDII has four O2 sensors.

    There's nothing wrong with the '95 and '96 models. There are several differences between '95 models and '96+ models, including: 1995 1996+ Engine 3.0L 3.2L HP 240 240 TRQ 225lb/ft 236lb/ft Engine Mgmt OBDI OBDII O2 Sensors 1 4 Wheels/Tires 235/40ZR17 225/45ZR17(F) on 17x7.5 on 17x7.5 245/40ZR17(R) on 17x8.5 all around Final Drive 3.15:1 3.23:1 Some other comparisons, issues, concerns, and tidbits: '95 models are easier (and cheaper) to modify because of OBDI '95 and'96 models have narrow chrome trim around the front grilles, and have larger side markers than the '97-99 models do. Also, later models (98-99?) changed the black bumper trim strip from smooth to pebble grain. Minor changes, but they make a slight difference in appearance. ASC+T (traction control) was not available on '95 models, but was standard starting in 1996. The ASC+T throttle control on these cars is located in such a way to limit the choice of front strutbars (if you choose to add one at a later date). However, there are several strut bars that will fit the '96 and later cars. ASC+T measures speed variations between wheels, so changing tire sizes (from standard) can result in ASC+T mistakenly activating at high speeds (because the speed difference between front and rear wheels makes ASC+T think that wheelspin is taking place). Just something to be mindful of. '96+ models added staggered tire/wheels and some suspension geometry changes (front caster & camber, swaybar sizing, etc) to make them 'safer' (more understeer). The staggered wheel/tire arrangement also prohibits you doing a proper tire rotation. (LR->LF, LF->RR, RR->RF, RF->LR). '96+ models have a more free-flowing exhaust system, and have a steel header rather than a cast iron exhaust manifold '96+ models have a digital climate control system, vs a 4-knob analog system on the '95s. All BMWs with the M50/S50 and M52/S52 engines (any 2.5, 2.8, 3.0 or 3.2 liter engine prior to 1997 timeframe, installed in 3-series (325i, 328i, M3) and 5-series (525i) cars) have a water pump with a plastic impeller, which seems to fail at around 60k miles. Beginning in 1997, a metal impeller was used. Newer models (98-99) added things like side airbags, lighted shift knob, different cup holder/console design '95 models allow you to lock doors and close windows via the key lock. '96+ models add the ability to also close the sunroof via the key. '99 models have a cool three-spoke steering wheel The sunroof in all models reduces headroom by over an inch, so if you're tall (6'+), or are tall from the waist up, you may have trouble fitting into a car with a sunroof. Non-sunroof models are hard to come by. There are standard and luxury models, with luxury models having power seats, wood trim, M-Contour wheels, etc. The Luxury package adds over 100lbs to the weight of the car. The standard sound system in all models is pretty poor. The Harmon-Kardon option made things better. If you're really concerned with having a high quality stereo, plan to install an aftermarket system. All 3-series cars can benefit from the installation of the x-brace, which was used on the E36 convertible and the M3 Lightweight. Some early '95 models (9/94 build date and earlier) may not have the nutserts in the frame to bolt the x-brace on, but they can be added. All 3-series cars starting in 9/94 have the nutserts installed. Rear shock mounts on all E36 cars are weak, and will tend to wear out after 30k miles. The E46 rear shock mounts will work as a replacement, and are much stronger. '96+ models have front strut tower reinforcements installed on top of the front struts. These can be added to the '95 models. Overall, you can't go wrong with any of the M3s, but the newer models tend to be a little better (running changes during production). So, unless you're bent on some serious engine modifications (which would make the '95 model w/OBDI a better choice), I'd suggest finding the newest model you can afford, with the lowest mileage, and a known repair history.

  3. #3
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    It helped alot. Can you explain me the digital climate control system and a 4-knob analog system?
    I was going buy obd2 m3 and the guy said digital climate control doesn't work on that m3. So I was wondering if the car necessary need it or not?


    Thanks.
    Last edited by megam3; 11-12-2009 at 08:56 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluptgm3 View Post
    obdi requires a 'chip' for ecu performance mods.
    Obdi has two o2 sensors.

    Obdii required ecu 'flash' for ecu performance mods.
    Obdii has four o2 sensors.

    There's nothing wrong with the '95 and '96 models. There are several differences between '95 models and '96+ models, including: 1995 1996+ engine 3.0l 3.2l hp 240 240 trq 225lb/ft 236lb/ft engine mgmt obdi obdii o2 sensors 1 4 wheels/tires 235/40zr17 225/45zr17(f) on 17x7.5 on 17x7.5 245/40zr17(r) on 17x8.5 all around final drive 3.15:1 3.23:1 some other comparisons, issues, concerns, and tidbits: '95 models are easier (and cheaper) to modify because of obdi '95 and'96 models have narrow chrome trim around the front grilles, and have larger side markers than the '97-99 models do. Also, later models (98-99?) changed the black bumper trim strip from smooth to pebble grain. Minor changes, but they make a slight difference in appearance. Asc+t (traction control) was not available on '95 models, but was standard starting in 1996. The asc+t throttle control on these cars is located in such a way to limit the choice of front strutbars (if you choose to add one at a later date). However, there are several strut bars that will fit the '96 and later cars. Asc+t measures speed variations between wheels, so changing tire sizes (from standard) can result in asc+t mistakenly activating at high speeds (because the speed difference between front and rear wheels makes asc+t think that wheelspin is taking place). Just something to be mindful of. '96+ models added staggered tire/wheels and some suspension geometry changes (front caster & camber, swaybar sizing, etc) to make them 'safer' (more understeer). The staggered wheel/tire arrangement also prohibits you doing a proper tire rotation. (lr->lf, lf->rr, rr->rf, rf->lr). '96+ models have a more free-flowing exhaust system, and have a steel header rather than a cast iron exhaust manifold '96+ models have a digital climate control system, vs a 4-knob analog system on the '95s. All bmws with the m50/s50 and m52/s52 engines (any 2.5, 2.8, 3.0 or 3.2 liter engine prior to 1997 timeframe, installed in 3-series (325i, 328i, m3) and 5-series (525i) cars) have a water pump with a plastic impeller, which seems to fail at around 60k miles. Beginning in 1997, a metal impeller was used. Newer models (98-99) added things like side airbags, lighted shift knob, different cup holder/console design '95 models allow you to lock doors and close windows via the key lock. '96+ models add the ability to also close the sunroof via the key. '99 models have a cool three-spoke steering wheel the sunroof in all models reduces headroom by over an inch, so if you're tall (6'+), or are tall from the waist up, you may have trouble fitting into a car with a sunroof. Non-sunroof models are hard to come by. There are standard and luxury models, with luxury models having power seats, wood trim, m-contour wheels, etc. The luxury package adds over 100lbs to the weight of the car. The standard sound system in all models is pretty poor. The harmon-kardon option made things better. If you're really concerned with having a high quality stereo, plan to install an aftermarket system. All 3-series cars can benefit from the installation of the x-brace, which was used on the e36 convertible and the m3 lightweight. Some early '95 models (9/94 build date and earlier) may not have the nutserts in the frame to bolt the x-brace on, but they can be added. All 3-series cars starting in 9/94 have the nutserts installed. Rear shock mounts on all e36 cars are weak, and will tend to wear out after 30k miles. The e46 rear shock mounts will work as a replacement, and are much stronger. '96+ models have front strut tower reinforcements installed on top of the front struts. These can be added to the '95 models. Overall, you can't go wrong with any of the m3s, but the newer models tend to be a little better (running changes during production). So, unless you're bent on some serious engine modifications (which would make the '95 model w/obdi a better choice), i'd suggest finding the newest model you can afford, with the lowest mileage, and a known repair history.
    and breathe!!!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluptgm3 View Post
    OBDI requires a 'chip' for ECU performance mods.
    OBDI has two O2 sensors.

    OBDII required ECU 'flash' for ECU performance mods.
    OBDII has four O2 sensors.

    There's nothing wrong with the '95 and '96 models. There are several differences between '95 models and '96+ models, including: 1995 1996+ Engine 3.0L 3.2L HP 240 240 TRQ 225lb/ft 236lb/ft Engine Mgmt OBDI OBDII O2 Sensors 1 4 Wheels/Tires 235/40ZR17 225/45ZR17(F) on 17x7.5 on 17x7.5 245/40ZR17(R) on 17x8.5 all around Final Drive 3.15:1 3.23:1 Some other comparisons, issues, concerns, and tidbits: '95 models are easier (and cheaper) to modify because of OBDI '95 and'96 models have narrow chrome trim around the front grilles, and have larger side markers than the '97-99 models do. Also, later models (98-99?) changed the black bumper trim strip from smooth to pebble grain. Minor changes, but they make a slight difference in appearance. ASC+T (traction control) was not available on '95 models, but was standard starting in 1996. The ASC+T throttle control on these cars is located in such a way to limit the choice of front strutbars (if you choose to add one at a later date). However, there are several strut bars that will fit the '96 and later cars. ASC+T measures speed variations between wheels, so changing tire sizes (from standard) can result in ASC+T mistakenly activating at high speeds (because the speed difference between front and rear wheels makes ASC+T think that wheelspin is taking place). Just something to be mindful of. '96+ models added staggered tire/wheels and some suspension geometry changes (front caster & camber, swaybar sizing, etc) to make them 'safer' (more understeer). The staggered wheel/tire arrangement also prohibits you doing a proper tire rotation. (LR->LF, LF->RR, RR->RF, RF->LR). '96+ models have a more free-flowing exhaust system, and have a steel header rather than a cast iron exhaust manifold '96+ models have a digital climate control system, vs a 4-knob analog system on the '95s. All BMWs with the M50/S50 and M52/S52 engines (any 2.5, 2.8, 3.0 or 3.2 liter engine prior to 1997 timeframe, installed in 3-series (325i, 328i, M3) and 5-series (525i) cars) have a water pump with a plastic impeller, which seems to fail at around 60k miles. Beginning in 1997, a metal impeller was used. Newer models (98-99) added things like side airbags, lighted shift knob, different cup holder/console design '95 models allow you to lock doors and close windows via the key lock. '96+ models add the ability to also close the sunroof via the key. '99 models have a cool three-spoke steering wheel The sunroof in all models reduces headroom by over an inch, so if you're tall (6'+), or are tall from the waist up, you may have trouble fitting into a car with a sunroof. Non-sunroof models are hard to come by. There are standard and luxury models, with luxury models having power seats, wood trim, M-Contour wheels, etc. The Luxury package adds over 100lbs to the weight of the car. The standard sound system in all models is pretty poor. The Harmon-Kardon option made things better. If you're really concerned with having a high quality stereo, plan to install an aftermarket system. All 3-series cars can benefit from the installation of the x-brace, which was used on the E36 convertible and the M3 Lightweight. Some early '95 models (9/94 build date and earlier) may not have the nutserts in the frame to bolt the x-brace on, but they can be added. All 3-series cars starting in 9/94 have the nutserts installed. Rear shock mounts on all E36 cars are weak, and will tend to wear out after 30k miles. The E46 rear shock mounts will work as a replacement, and are much stronger. '96+ models have front strut tower reinforcements installed on top of the front struts. These can be added to the '95 models. Overall, you can't go wrong with any of the M3s, but the newer models tend to be a little better (running changes during production). So, unless you're bent on some serious engine modifications (which would make the '95 model w/OBDI a better choice), I'd suggest finding the newest model you can afford, with the lowest mileage, and a known repair history.
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  6. #6
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    I think I'm going to copy and paste that into every thread that a newbie makes without searching.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by megam3 View Post
    Anyone can explain me pros & cons about obd1(95M3) and
    obd2(96~99M3) ?

    I heard obd1 is faster than obd2. Is that true?
    I need informations about obd1 and 2.

    Thanks.
    Universal pro: All pros and cons can be found using the 'Search' feature.

    Sorry to be that guy.



  8. #8
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    OBD1 has 1 O2 sensor, not 2... OBD2 has 4...

    OBD2 pros? Can't think of any...

    Con's, WAY more crap that will cause a check engine light.

    As far a performance differences between 1, and 2? None...(anymore) Provided you use a good tuner...
    No matter where you go, there you are...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRSperry View Post
    OBD1 has 1 O2 sensor, not 2... OBD2 has 4...

    OBD2 pros? Can't think of any...

    Con's, WAY more crap that will cause a check engine light.

    As far a performance differences between 1, and 2? None...(anymore) Provided you use a good tuner...

    Richard.. .i'm sure it's no coincidence that you own a '95.... and cannot figure out how to use a simple $90 code reader. the cons to 96-99 is that 95 owners get bitter.

    it's model year 2010... if you still think that OBD2 is complicated WAKE UP. every car made for the road for the last 13 years is OBDII.... get over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by RRSperry View Post
    OBD2 pros? Can't think of any...
    ...

    even you must realize how stupid and bitter that sounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluptgm3 View Post
    OBDI requires a 'chip' for ECU performance mods.
    OBDI has two O2 sensors.

    OBDII required ECU 'flash' for ECU performance mods.
    OBDII has four O2 sensors.

    There's nothing wrong with the '95 and '96 models. .
    '96 is OBDII.

    there are many things wrong with the '95 model.
    Last edited by Badgtho is back; 11-13-2009 at 10:30 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

    current = '99 Estoril/Mulberry M3 Coupe :: past = '97 Alpine/Anthrazit M3 Coupe

  10. #10
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    These threads always end with OB1 vs OB2 fights. I'm not too sure what's the point of it all.

    Folks should realize that the primary purpose of OBD1 and OBD2 is for emissions control.

    I'm going to assume that the OP is wanting to know about performance. If that's the case, then one could argue that OBD1 is "better" because you get 240HP out of a 3.0L engine vs. 240HP out of a 3.2L engine. Now that does not mean that the 3.0L engine IS better, it just means that at the time the emissions laws were not as strict. Everyone already knows the 3.2L has a bit more torque. With the new emissions guidelines in place, performance is handicapped. That's why the ZHP engines on the E46s only put out 235HP when it also is a 3.0L.

    I think a lot of folks are asking the wrong question. The real question should be which engine has better performance the 3.0 or the 3.2 and why. In reality they're pretty much the same despite what people say.

  11. #11
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    IMHO Bottom line is that OP lives in Cali, so he should buy a '95. Smog sucks here and it's hard enough to pass without a tech plugging into your car to find more reasons to fail.


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  12. #12
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    I'm not bitter or saying anything all about the cars. The OP asked about OBD1 vs 2 engine diagnostics. If he was asking about the cars, then that's slightly different.

    I own a GT1 so a cheap code reader isn't the problem. Point to a single thing about OBD2 that makes it better? Not the car, but the engine diagnostics.

    OBD2 was supposed to make repairing and diagnosing cars easier, and cheaper for the consumer. It didn't.
    No matter where you go, there you are...

  13. #13
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    I've owned BOTH the 95 OBD1 car and 96 OBD2 car...

    My 2-cents:

    ODB1:
    + LESS parts to worry about/buy/replace. Somewhat easy to bolt-on chip upgrades
    - chip bolt-ons are nice but not as efficient as software, plus you really NEED a realtime dyno tuned chip with your car versus an off-shelf solution for maximum performance (but that's being extreme of me)

    OBD2:
    + much more efficient/software driven upgrades and performance
    - kiloton of extra emissions stuff like air pumps, FOUR o2 sensors, obd2 electronics to fail... etc.

    Honestly... for a low-mod daily, the OBD2 is good.
    For mods, OBD1.

    If you go extreme - it's a wash.
    BMW CCA Member 186373 - Golden Gate Chapter
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post
    I've owned BOTH the 95 OBD1 car and 96 OBD2 car...

    My 2-cents:

    ODB1:
    + LESS parts to worry about/buy/replace. Somewhat easy to bolt-on chip upgrades
    - chip bolt-ons are nice but not as efficient as software, plus you really NEED a realtime dyno tuned chip with your car versus an off-shelf solution for maximum performance (but that's being extreme of me)

    OBD2:
    + much more efficient/software driven upgrades and performance
    - kiloton of extra emissions stuff like air pumps, FOUR o2 sensors, obd2 electronics to fail... etc.

    Honestly... for a low-mod daily, the OBD2 is good.
    For mods, OBD1.

    If you go extreme - it's a wash.
    why would you say OBD1 for mods? it's not significantly cheaper to mod OBD1, nor does it yield better performance than its OBD2 counterpart.

    i really thought we were past this old wives' tale about OBD1 being better for mods. if anything, the obd2 ecu can do more for performance than obd1 because it has control over more things. tuners like conforti, who have completely mapped out the ecu for both, would have more tuning control with obd2 than obd1. i'm pretty sure this came up in conforti's massive shark edit thread. if i get a minute, i'll try to find it.

    EDIT:

    here's a couple quotes in reference to what i said above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Conforti View Post
    For OBD-I vehicles, that requires hardware to replace the
    chip in the DME.

    For OBD-II vehicles, it will be an add-on.

    The kicker with OBD-II vehicles is that the ability to "emulate"
    and do "live tuning" was built into the ECU from the factory.

    Jim
    Quote Originally Posted by NickG View Post
    OBD2 all the way!!! There is so much more control and speed in the OBD2 MS41 ECU vs. the OBD1 M3.3.1 ECU that it's not even funny.

    BUT, you list your car as being a 95 M3. Unless you plan on changing cars, you really don't have a choice as to which setup to get
    Quote Originally Posted by NickG View Post
    My suggestion: convert to OBD2.

    You must be saying "What, are you crazy!?"

    Why yes, yes I am I feel I can do a better job tuning OBD2 than OBD1. Believe it or not, I have more control and can probably make more power with the MS41 ECU than the M3.3.1 ECU. Talk to ICS if you want more details.
    Quote Originally Posted by NickG View Post
    Faster diagnositcs/communications, more maps, etc.
    Last edited by jworms; 11-13-2009 at 04:28 PM.
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    1/4 mile: 13.3@104.2mph; 8.6 in 1/8; 2.04 60' | Best 1/8 mile: 8.3@83mph; 1.81 60'
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  15. #15
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    I think that a common misconception about the idea of OBD1 being cheaper and easier to make fast is on some level validated in my area. Because of emissions laws in Utah, it is almost impossible to sneak around the law on an OBD2 car but with OBD1 you can get away with a lot more: no cats, check engine light on, turbo, blah blah blah.

    On OBD1 if you know the right people you can just get your emissions tag even if your car is completely illegal. With OBD2, Utah's new emission test machine cross references the VIN of the OBD2 port with the vin on the registration and if they are different the car, the emissions tester, and the shop ALL get screwed.

    So the argument that the OBD1 DME is more tunable is certainly debatable, but the idea that OBD1 is easier to make power is absolutely and undeniably true, at least in Utah.

  16. #16
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    I am kinda confused.
    obd2 is good for low mods and obd1 is for high mods?
    Or...?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by megam3 View Post
    I am kinda confused.
    obd2 is good for low mods and obd1 is for high mods?
    Or...?
    it is COMPLETELY FALSE that obd1 inherently makes more power than obd2 at ANY level. read the quotes i mentioned in my previous reply you will see it's quite the opposite. for reference, those quotes are from very well known and respected tuners in this community.

    furthermore, the obd version does not dictate the amount of power you can gain at the naturally aspirated, basic bolt-on level for these cars using off-the-shelf software (which is more than sufficiently available for both obd1 and obd2). the answer i think you are looking for is, if you stay naturally aspirated, the bigger engine (obd2) will provide better gains in performance. if you want to go the FI route, that's a different discussion which is heavily reliant on your plans for the car.
    Last edited by jworms; 11-14-2009 at 02:17 AM.
    UUC EVO III SSK | M50 Intake Manifold | Conforti 3.5" CAI | AA Software | 3.5" HFM (unplugged)
    Fan Delete | Strömung Exhaust | UUC Stg2 Ltw Flywheel | X-Brace | AA Track Pipe | 3.46 Differential


    1/4 mile: 13.3@104.2mph; 8.6 in 1/8; 2.04 60' | Best 1/8 mile: 8.3@83mph; 1.81 60'
    Dyno: 242rwhp/232rwtq
    SOLD

  18. #18
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    OP, you are in CA and our smog standards are tough to pass with OBD2.
    But you are in No. Cal and your standard is slighly less than the LA area.
    My car passes the OBD1 standards but not quite the OBD2 tests without help.
    That being said, I would always buy the newest best kept car you can afford.
    The pros and cons are a wash or not really anything to worry about if you want one of these cars. Plenty of mods are available for either.

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