Standalone EMS comparisons - Bimmerforums

TheJuggernaut · #1 11-09-2009, 11:19 AM

Hi guys,

Before this thread is deleted or totally crapped out, let me say that I've tried searching, extensively, and I've found some threads but I still don't get it. Most threads seem to compare the ecus by features, but the features some have over others are useless to me. I don't need telemetry, traction control or PnP.

I'm all but sold on VEMS and planning to order mine within a week but I can't shake the feeling that I may have regrets. I'm not rich but if I have to save up another few grand for an EMS that is far superior in how it will operate the engine then I'll do it.

The rocket science Bosch systems are out of my league. My upper bound is the Motec, lower bound being VEMS, with things like AEM in the middle.

The setup in question is an S52 which will be receiving a GT35r, with 550-600rwhp as the goal. The car is track only. A major part of the appeal of playing with standalone to me is the tinkering so the more involving the setup, the better - I actually don't want plug and play or any kind of auto-tuning.

So I guess what I desperately want to know is, are there any reasons why VEMS is an inferior engine management ECU, minus any other bells and whistles or setup ease - just its abilities as an EMS.

If someone can point me to a thread that answers these questions, with hard data and not "I personally feel this is better because it costs more and not put together by Hungarians", that's all I need. Otherwise, any input is very welcome.

Thanks a ton in advance!
D

DanR · #2 11-09-2009, 11:37 AM

Standalones are like politics. Good Luck. Alot of the things with a standalone will be the intangibles. Customer Support, Tuning Support, local tuners.

The best standalone would be the one you have the tuner most comfortable tuning. I wouldn't run anything on an E36 turbo setup that would not run atleast the injection full sequential. Running wasted spark is no big deal as most BMW engines RPM ceiling is pretty low anyway.

I PERSONALLY like Autronic, AEM, Haltech, Pantera EFI in that order.

I am sure VEMS will be perfectly capable. The more you spend the more bells and whistles though, however, I do not think that always equates to a better performing/driving setup.

TheJuggernaut · #3 11-09-2009, 11:42 AM

Thanks Dan.

My tuner said he's fine with just about anything. He explicitly said he's tuned a lot of MS and VEMS setups. And VEMS is fully sequential.

What features from the fancier EMSs would lead to better performance? EDIT: sorry, didn't get hooked on my fonix, I misread "I do not think that always..." as "I do think"

techno550 · #4 11-09-2009, 12:03 PM

It isn't necessarily "features" that get you a better running engine, it is often functionality and precision.

Control strategy is important, but most will be speed density or alpha n. Table size does matter as well.

Matt · #5 11-09-2009, 12:08 PM

MIPS are pretty important but good luck getting that info out of ECU manufacturers.

DTRguy · #6 11-09-2009, 12:09 PM

I am running 034 Motorsport Stg 2c... Not as expensive as most, but has a lot of the features and is pretty user friendly. Check it out here:http://www.034motorsport.com/index.p...ml9qjb027uuus1

My favorite part of these systems as compared to others is that I have never had an issue getting a car started Immediately and driving within minutes of fire. Customer support is very good as well. I'm not the only one on here that has used the system as well. I have experience with Autronic, Wolf, and MS... by far my favorite to deal with is still 034 which is made right here in America... which makes it a lot easier if you do run into an issue.

TheJuggernaut · #7 11-09-2009, 12:26 PM

DTR: Thanks but I'd rather stick to something with a huge user base with these engines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by techno550

It isn't necessarily "features" that get you a better running engine, it is often functionality and precision.

Control strategy is important, but most will be speed density or alpha n. Table size does matter as well.

Thanks. How does VEMS compare to the more expensive ones in those parameters?

DTRguy · #8 11-09-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJuggernaut

DTR: Thanks but I'd rather stick to something with a huge user base with these engines.

Probably a good idea for a first time installer tuner. I have extensive experience with 034 ECU's... but honestly all ECU's are hooked up the same way, and do basically exactly the same thing. It's the user interface that counts to me. I understand AEM is used extensively and if I weren't an 034 type guy I'd probably use that.

clintjg · #9 11-09-2009, 12:38 PM

I've seen cars run very well on Autronic, but also consider ViPec and PecTel. I think either of the latter are pretty much complete with all the bells and whistles you need without the ad-ins. A respected tuner I know speaks very highly of the both but I have no direct experience with them. Yet.

a32guy · #10 11-09-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clintjg

I've seen cars run very well on Autronic, but also consider ViPec and PecTel. I think either of the latter are pretty much complete with all the bells and whistles you need without the ad-ins.

Vipec will be my next EMS. I hear they have new models being released shortly...

techno550 · #11 11-09-2009, 01:06 PM

VEMS, from what i recall, was a big jump forward from MS1, but unless it has been updated, is slower than a MS2.

In processing power the MS1, and things close to it, are pretty slow. That is a reasonable limitation in itself.

The "up" from there can be way up, and largely budget dependent.

5mall5nail5 · #12 11-09-2009, 01:23 PM

There's many, many, many options out there. Each and every one has a drawback.

So Live · #13 11-09-2009, 01:55 PM

I like my AEM ems. Im using a 30-1050 from a honda. Its basically the same as the AEM universal ems minus the injector drivers but you can run plenty big injectors with out a driver. And i paid $1100 for it. I think its one of the better systems for the money and this box is well proven as the quickest bmws in the country run it. It has a TON of features too.

And you can buy the "plug 'n pin" kit which is the ecu connectors and pins for the honda box.

Good luck with your purchase dude!

5mall5nail5 · #14 11-09-2009, 02:13 PM

Does the 1050 need an ignition module?

DanR · #15 11-09-2009, 02:36 PM

Pantera EFI = 034.

I ran the Stage IIc on my turbo M3 and liked it.

The 1050 does not have a built in coil driver and will require an ignition box or driver from another car.

So Live · #16 11-09-2009, 05:42 PM

Dan got it!

My $30 Nissan ignitor is proven to 500whp on a s50 w/ pump fuel only.

OK so a 30-1050 dosnt have peak and hold injector drivers OR ignition drivers. If thats worth ~$800 to you then so be it. I dont have an issue using high imp injectors and running an ignitor/cdi.

SiGmA · #17 11-09-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a32guy

Vipec will be my next EMS. I hear they have new models being released shortly...

Oh really? I need to talk to Ray about that before I buy my V88. We should chat Chris.

So Live · #18 11-09-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiGmA

Oh really? I need to talk to Ray about that before I buy my V88. We should chat Chris.

Chris is pretty knowledgeable with vipec/ autronic scene. Hes always been super helpful too.

DTRguy · #19 11-09-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanR

Pantera EFI = 034.

I ran the Stage IIc on my turbo M3 and liked it.

The 1050 does not have a built in coil driver and will require an ignition box or driver from another car.

034 ftw

teamsoy · #20 11-09-2009, 08:56 PM

i dont want to thread jack but i am curious about the honda/universal aem ems. reason being is that i thought the only way was the 2k plus mike r set up.

highboostingm3 · #21 11-09-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teamsoy

i dont want to thread jack but i am curious about the honda/universal aem ems. reason being is that i thought the only way was the 2k plus mike r set up.

That's because he is talking about the box only! You have to wire it up yourself. Good luck.

So Live · #22 11-09-2009, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highboostingm3

That's because he is talking about the box only! You have to wire it up yourself. Good luck.

And figure out how to configure everything!

Mike gives you a start up file and its really plug n play. Cant fuck with that...

thespeedfactory · #23 11-09-2009, 10:04 PM

I am running Haltech E11v2.

On board 2.5 bar map, built in low z injector drivers, fully sequential injection, can run LSX coils directly for direct fire ignition, full datalogging, and autotune.

If only I had a dyno...

SiGmA · #24 11-09-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a32guy

Vipec will be my next EMS. I hear they have new models being released shortly...

I just talked to Ray Hall, he said this is incorrect, there are no plans for additional models anytime soon. New firmware with lots more features is coming soon, but not new ViPEC models. Just a heads up! I'd love to hear what your friend has to say tho.

Quote:

Originally Posted by So Live

Chris is pretty knowledgeable with vipec/ autronic scene. Hes always been super helpful too.

Yes, yes he is amazingly helpful! Great guy for sure, he was the final push for me to get a ViPEC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thespeedfactory

I am running Haltech E11v2.

On board 2.5 bar map, built in low z injector drivers, fully sequential injection, can run LSX coils directly for direct fire ignition, full datalogging, and autotune.

If only I had a dyno...

2.5bar MAP? So you can only run 21.7psi?

teamsoy · #25 11-09-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highboostingm3

That's because he is talking about the box only! You have to wire it up yourself. Good luck.

I understand the wiring part ect. like with most stand alones. Though I am curious how everything is done and round about running costs.

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