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Thread: FYI - I had 4" of rain water under my driver's side cabin filter...

  1. #1
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    FYI - I had 4" of rain water under my driver's side cabin filter...

    Last night it rained bigtime. I drove through it, no problems with Bridgestone RE760's ftw.

    Pull over to get pizza and it's raining more and more, for hours.

    Get back in car. Turn key, place foot on brake and prepare to put the auto tranny in drive. GURRGLE noises, sounded like a SCUBA tank underwater as I placed my foot on the brake pedal. WTF?

    The brake pedal was hard/fine, brakes worked, but WTF?

    Get out of car, remove driver's side cabin filter to look at Master Cylinder etc and what do I see? Water about 1" below the Master Cylinder and another inch of water trapped under the driver's side windshield wiper motor. WTF?

    I keep my cabin filter drains clean all the time, once a month I check them. Check them and they are not clogged. They have a small rubber drain on the inner side and also a larger drain on their fender-side which drains behind the front wheel....my drains were fine. So WTF?

    I removed all the water with towels and this resolved the gurggling noise (which was water acting as a speaker for the vacuum in the Bell Housing etc) was gone. I then woke up this am, determined to find the problem in daylight.

    Here it is...on the driver's side cabin filter, where it meets the car itself, there is enough space for water to rush through. Perhaps the car needs to be at a certain angle for this to occur, I dunno, but I do not intend to find out again.

    Here are photos of the problem and the cure:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
    ~Macktheknife in my epic Jennifer Connelly OT Thread

  2. #2
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    Moar:
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    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
    ~Macktheknife in my epic Jennifer Connelly OT Thread

  3. #3
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    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
    ~Macktheknife in my epic Jennifer Connelly OT Thread

  4. #4
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    in the first set of pics, i thought i was watching the part in ferris bueller where they zoom in on the painting..

  5. #5
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    I liek bonus!

    I never had my car gurgle at me, but shortly after I bought it I saw that gap. Turned out the plastic pieces are supposed to overlap there, I believe. I'll take a pic when I can to showcase my repair.

  6. #6
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryb View Post
    in the first set of pics, i thought i was watching the part in ferris bueller where they zoom in on the painting..
    i was going for the hitchcock effect.
    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
    ~Macktheknife in my epic Jennifer Connelly OT Thread

  8. #8
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    I had the same problem with the brakes and also a rough running engine on my car after a car wash once and after rain storms occasionally. I got code P1353 (Misfire Cylinder 6 With Fuel Cut-off). Turns out it's a clogged drain by the brake master cylinder. Remove the interior cabin filter on the driver side, unhook the vent tube, squeeze the clamp and lift up the plastic tray the air filter rests in. There you will find the brake fluid reservoir and master cylinder, and it will have water in the bottom if your drain is plugged. Use a straight coat hanger and clear the drain hole which is in the bottom of this area towards the middle of the car. After I did this I didn't have any more trouble. Wish I had known this before I had the coil and spark plug replaced on cylinder 6. The reason water causes these symptoms is that when you depress the brake pedal water gets into the brake booster and then gets sucked into the engine.

  9. #9
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    I am pretty sure they're supposed to overlap there so the water has a good pathway to run.

    Putting those boxes back in is kind of a pain in the butt.

    I've had mine out a few times since I got my car 2 weeks ago, and each time I struggle to make sure everything is lined up perfect, and seals go back where they're supposed to.

  10. #10
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    Update wtf fml i am pissed off

    UPDATE ON THE ABOVE PHOTOS...

    Recently I've been having MAJOR brake issues as in having a rock hard brake pedal upon start-up, a pedal that will not move and no brakes...then after 30 minutes of warming up, the brakes worked fine. Okay, I deduced it was contaminated brake fluid...water got into the system due to the above situation (see photos posted above).

    So I replaced all the brake fluid last week. No problems. Now I am in Boston, enduring another cold snap and BAM, I go outside, start the car and again, rock hard brake pedal and no brake power whatsover. WTF?

    Car idles fine, no vacuum issues.
    Re-check brake fluid level, it's fine and 100% brand new.
    NO LIGHTS on the dashboard regarding ABS etc.
    WTF?

    I call mmm635 and also my friend at the BMW Dealer.

    The BMW dealer-friend calls back with, "By chance, have you ever had a pool of water trapped under your brake booster? A drain gets clogged, the area fills with rain water, that water gets into the system and destroys the brake booster."

    Wow, I hadn't even told him about my rain-water saga above.

    So now, after letting the car warm up for 2 hours, I have about 50% brake power. It's like driving a car from many decades ago before the invention of power brakes. I plan on driving home from Boston at a very off-hour, avoiding traffic and then spending $500.00 on a friggin brake booster to avoid getting killed on the road.

    Needless to say, this all sucks a lot.
    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
    ~Macktheknife in my epic Jennifer Connelly OT Thread

  11. #11
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    Oh my....

    I tried calling you back...
    I thought you were buried in snow, or something...
    Did you try calling Jared, and see if he can over-night a new brake-booster to you???

    Michel doesn't answer his phone either...
    Last edited by Jason5driver; 12-30-2009 at 03:49 PM.

    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner …

  12. #12
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    This has happened to me also. Based on your 9/29 post you haven't cleared the correct drain. The clogged drain causing the problem is a ~3/4" dia hole 8'' below the master cylinder, towards the engine. See 12/10 post by zanspgn. If you can put your car in a garage overnight, brake booster will thaw and brake will be OK. Booster will eventually dry out since air passes thru it everytime you use the brakes.

    Paul S.
    BMW CCA 69606




    Quote Originally Posted by bimmerfiver View Post
    UPDATE ON THE ABOVE PHOTOS...

    Recently I've been having MAJOR brake issues as in having a rock hard brake pedal upon start-up, a pedal that will not move and no brakes...then after 30 minutes of warming up, the brakes worked fine. Okay, I deduced it was contaminated brake fluid...water got into the system due to the above situation (see photos posted above).

    So I replaced all the brake fluid last week. No problems. Now I am in Boston, enduring another cold snap and BAM, I go outside, start the car and again, rock hard brake pedal and no brake power whatsover. WTF?

    Car idles fine, no vacuum issues.
    Re-check brake fluid level, it's fine and 100% brand new.
    NO LIGHTS on the dashboard regarding ABS etc.
    WTF?

    I call mmm635 and also my friend at the BMW Dealer.

    The BMW dealer-friend calls back with, "By chance, have you ever had a pool of water trapped under your brake booster? A drain gets clogged, the area fills with rain water, that water gets into the system and destroys the brake booster."

    Wow, I hadn't even told him about my rain-water saga above.

    So now, after letting the car warm up for 2 hours, I have about 50% brake power. It's like driving a car from many decades ago before the invention of power brakes. I plan on driving home from Boston at a very off-hour, avoiding traffic and then spending $500.00 on a friggin brake booster to avoid getting killed on the road.

    Needless to say, this all sucks a lot.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
    This has happened to me also. Based on your 9/29 post you haven't cleared the correct drain. The clogged drain causing the problem is a ~3/4" dia hole 8'' below the master cylinder, towards the engine. See 12/10 post by zanspgn. If you can put your car in a garage overnight, brake booster will thaw and brake will be OK. Booster will eventually dry out since air passes thru it everytime you use the brakes.

    Paul S.
    BMW CCA 69606
    I did clean the drain...and there has not been any more accumulation of water in this area.

    I dunno wtf is going on...did the water seep into the brake booster and due to now-freezing temps, destroy the inner diaphram of the brake booster? Or is the check-valve broken?

    Since the brakes improve somewhat as the car heats up...from Fred Flinstone-type, to what I can now drive (with extreme caution)...I have to believe the check valve is kaput or the brake booster is cooked.

    I'd agree with you IF there was rain the past few days...if there was water in the area. However, the only time the brake booster was contaiminated with water was from my original post above.

    I want to be wrong and I hope you are right.

    I am replacing the check-valve tomorrow afternoon. I will look into the drain again and test while I am there. I am leaving Boston at midnight to avoid traffic and will drive 55mph the whole way as I currently have non-power-assisted brakes. If I get killed, kerryb can have my Thundercats dvds.

    This whole situation pisses me the **** off. I am seriously seriously frustrated.
    Last edited by bimmerfiver; 12-30-2009 at 05:23 PM.
    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
    ~Macktheknife in my epic Jennifer Connelly OT Thread

  14. #14
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    keith - we did this to my car last week... water was getting down into my brake booster because my windshield cowl is pretty much shot.

    talk to gumbi, he can give you better details..

  15. #15
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    OK, I'm glad to hear you did more then you describe in your 9/29 post. After you get water in the booster it takes a very long time for it to dry out completely so it won't freeze. Mine only froze once. It was a year ago when it was in an airport parking lot for several days. This was 6 months after I cleared the drains and solved the infiltration problem. I believe mine has dried out. I've tested mine by keeping car outside in sub-freezing weather....no freezeups yet this winter. You won't know if booster is permanently damaged until temps get above freezing. Need to get car into an above freezing environment. Some have claimed success using a hair dryer to thaw out booster. I doubt a new check valve will help.

    Paul S
    BMW CCA 69606







    Quote Originally Posted by bimmerfiver View Post
    I did clean the drain...and there has not been any more accumulation of water in this area.

    I dunno wtf is going on...did the water seep into the brake booster and due to now-freezing temps, destroy the inner diaphram of the brake booster? Or is the check-valve broken?

    Since the brakes improve somewhat as the car heats up...from Fred Flinstone-type, to what I can now drive (with extreme caution)...I have to believe the check valve is kaput or the brake booster is cooked.

    I'd agree with you IF there was rain the past few days...if there was water in the area. However, the only time the brake booster was contaiminated with water was from my original post above.

    I want to be wrong and I hope you are right.

    I am replacing the check-valve tomorrow afternoon. I will look into the drain again and test while I am there. I am leaving Boston at midnight to avoid traffic and will drive 55mph the whole way as I currently have non-power-assisted brakes. If I get killed, kerryb can have my Thundercats dvds.

    This whole situation pisses me the **** off. I am seriously seriously frustrated.
    Last edited by pshovest; 12-30-2009 at 05:54 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryb View Post
    keith - we did this to my car last week... water was getting down into my brake booster because my windshield cowl is pretty much shot.

    talk to gumbi, he can give you better details..
    What did you do? Replace the booster? Clean out the drain? Replace the check-valve, what?

    Have you and or Gumbi call me ASAP. I am in Boston and about to wig the eff out.
    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
    ~Macktheknife in my epic Jennifer Connelly OT Thread

  17. #17
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    We replaced the booster. The thing had more water in it than you could think of. I had the same problem you have, my rock hard brake pedal was at the floor in the morning if it was below freezing out.

    I was pumping the clutch and brake pedal many times, that cleared out the brake booster to work properly, before I replaced it. I was nervous just like you are, but once above freezing and the brakes "cleared" out, the brakes worked as should.

    Call Gumbi.

  18. #18
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    SAME thing happened to me, just started freezing with the temp drops. My filter cover was installed OVER the plastic coming down from the windshield (supposed to go under) so the rain water was funneled right into that area. I drained mine in the summer but was still more than enough in the booster to freeze in the winter. Had a used brake booster put in and all is well. Don't press your luck, be safe.
    Last edited by ryanK; 12-30-2009 at 06:20 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimmerfiver View Post
    Here it is...on the driver's side cabin filter, where it meets the car itself, there is enough space for water to rush through. Perhaps the car needs to be at a certain angle for this to occur, I dunno, but I do not intend to find out again.
    When the micro filter housing is installed correctly the gap you indicate in your original post should not be there. When installing the housing there are two tabs on the back (near windshield) that must go up and through the slots on the lower window trim.

    When I originally bought my car the previous owner had incorrectly installed the micro filter housing in without putting the rear tabs throught the lower window trim.

    Don't know if this is your problem or perhaps something else is out of alignment.
    Last edited by jagerhund; 12-30-2009 at 10:40 PM.
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  20. #20
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    I give you points for creative use of weatherstrip adhesive but ... as Jager mentioned above ... the gap isn't supposed to be there.

    When reinstalling the microfilter housing you have to pivot that corner under the windshield wiper cowl so that water runs over the overlapping plastic of that joint.

    Here are some pics of Mine:

    driver's side:




    Passenger side:



    Remove and reinstall.

    There is another thread on here where poster had same booster problem. EAC tuning offered a spare booster unit they had but ... we never determined how the water got into the booster unit. That unit was replaced with a used one for reportedly reasonable $.
    Last edited by jase007; 12-30-2009 at 09:00 PM.
    Jason

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    JScott Racing

  21. #21
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    I planned on contacting EAC Tuning after I stepped into the phase of acceptance. I spent the day in denial. Senor Gumbi now knows of such brake booster issues and FYI and FWIW to all e39'ers...be aware that no, I am not the solo on this problem, there are others. It's yes, somewhat freaky, but no not entirely rare and those in cold weather areas ought to make certain they don't encounter this issue. It's worse than a gummed-up CCV...when your brake pedal does NOT move, you don't have a working automobile.

    I'm driving back to NY and will get the problem resolved asap. It will be a new brake booster along with many moments of deep stares, gazing into that oh so simple Greek aquaduct known as BMW rubber/plastic which is supposed to NEVER allow 6" of rain water into one's brake booster.

    A). new brake booster
    B). re-check the drain under the booster
    C). re-check the plastic cover/water ramp
    D). this sucks cause i wanted new winter tires, not gerbling with brake booster bs.

    I imagine we'll have a thread about all of this above, including egg roll stories from Gumbi's shop next week. As far as I am concerned, any brake issue in a car is a MAJOR issue and this one is no bs in the winter.

    Happy New Year to all.
    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
    ~Macktheknife in my epic Jennifer Connelly OT Thread

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimmerfiver View Post
    It's worse than a gummed-up CCV...when your brake pedal does NOT move, you don't have a working automobile.
    Good luck getting your brakes and car back to normal, stepping on the brakes and finding them unserviceable is definitely not something you want to experience.
    2003 530iA Sport - Titangrau Metallic/Schwarz Montana
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  23. #23
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    Here is a little picture of the drain on my cabin filter...



    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner …

  24. #24
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    Got the same drains on the 740i and glad I looked here,

    Didn't even know those knob things were drains I better get cleaning as I have had my drivers side filter (other side for us in the UK) soaking wet whenever it rains.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ez64 View Post
    Got the same drains on the 740i and glad I looked here,

    Didn't even know those knob things were drains I better get cleaning as I have had my drivers side filter (other side for us in the UK) soaking wet whenever it rains.
    The drains that jason5driver has shown above, YES, need to be cleaned out and ANY Jawa can do it easily, BUT, here is the BUT---THOSE drains are only SOME of the drains that need to be kept clean AND---THEY PALE in comparison to THE ONE I speak of in post # 8 here:

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...2#post18360262

    For the one I am referring to---you must remove the driver side can filter over, filter and base.

    That is all.
    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
    ~Macktheknife in my epic Jennifer Connelly OT Thread

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