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| 1983 - 1991 (E30) (1983 - 1991) Born from the sporty character of the 2002 and the sharp design lines of the E21, the E30 was a blend of the best of BMW's heritage. The second generation 3 Series provided a thrilling driving experience that used the best technology available. |
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#1
09-28-2009, 07:34 PM
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3 days and little money, drag prepping my E30
basically looking for ideas on how to make it quicker than it currently is. interior is staying.
so far i got: finish my home made airbox setup and either connect it up to the existing feed and scoop behind the grill or pull the light on that side and run the feed direct.anything i havent thought of or missed? not looking to go to the extreme but want to make sure the cars running fairly decent times against the other cars there. will be a mix of cars.. prob alot of jap/euro stuff, gti, vr6, obligatory wrx and evo, prob a few skylines of different shapes and sizes, b16 and lesser civic, misc type r's, M3, etc, etc.. mods on the car atm are 6850rpm chip, uber heavy scorpion back box, exposed mushroom filter, shimmed hood rollers and strip of weather seal removed to run cooler, Z3M stick, mucho stiffer tranny mounts and 4.10 diff.
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 WMMotorsports Chip (6850rpm limit), Custom Ram Air Intake, Scorpion Backbox, Lumenition MS4 Coil, NGK Copper Cores, 5 Spd Swap, M Coupe Shifter & Extended Support Arm, Ruff Auto Technik Trans Mounts, 4.10 Diff, UUC Motorwerks RK2, 8k 35w HID's, Front Strut Brace, E36 M3 Half Leather Seats, Jamex -60F/-55R (mm) Spring Kit. Last edited by DmcL; 09-28-2009 at 07:38 PM.. 
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#2
09-28-2009, 08:16 PM
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no M20 will be a good drag engine without going turbo.
You gotta drop weight for drag racing. You have the 4.10 diff, which is a good thing. But i really dont think that E30s make good drag cars.
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#3
09-28-2009, 08:17 PM
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Disclaimer: At any time, any single thing I say or do could be entirely or partly incorrect, wrong, or just plain in dramatic error. Take all comments, advice, and criticism at face value, and research all references I give in my posts. 
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#4
09-28-2009, 08:34 PM
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The E30 is a better car for auto-x-ing. The M20 simply doesn't have the capability of other engines even when modded to the max. Plus, even with a swap, the E30 areodynamics is like trying to run a marathon with a parachute.
__________________
"Nation? You're like a family to me. That's why this year I'm claiming you all as dependents." -His Truthfully truthiness-ed Excellency The Most Honorable Rev. Fr. Professor Sir Dr. Stephen Tiberius "C-Train" Colbert, Esquire, D.F.A., SC, America's Newsman, Star Commander of the Order of Colbert, Greatest Living American, is a news reporter and anchor known for his romantic style, supergravitastic poise, Lincolnish intellect, extreme uber-hotness, and witty delivery.
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#6
09-29-2009, 03:13 AM
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return to stock and have fun with it
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#7
09-29-2009, 06:13 AM
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dudes and dudettes.. im in europe. a 325i is considered a decently fast car here lol
id say ill be sort of in the middle of everything there times wise.. there will be slower cars and there will be faster but id hazard a guess i should be middle of the pack-ish. last years to give u guys some ideas of what could be there to race against: notice how the majority suck at launching. this is where i think ill do well, esp with the Z3M stick, poly trans mounts and 4.10. im thinking if i can get off the line quickly ill surprise quite a few people. ah and another "mod" (lol) i will have on the car before this is a 318i badge 
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WMMotorsports Chip (6850rpm limit), Custom Ram Air Intake, Scorpion Backbox, Lumenition MS4 Coil, NGK Copper Cores, 5 Spd Swap, M Coupe Shifter & Extended Support Arm, Ruff Auto Technik Trans Mounts, 4.10 Diff, UUC Motorwerks RK2, 8k 35w HID's, Front Strut Brace, E36 M3 Half Leather Seats, Jamex -60F/-55R (mm) Spring Kit.
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#8
09-29-2009, 07:02 AM
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this thread is fail. The only mod worth while for the strip in an e30 m20 is tires and an LSD. 3.73>4.10 enjoy your extra shift with the 4.10.
Weight will not make a difference, suspension will, but you don't necessarily want stiff for drag. Stiff doesn't equal traction from a launch. I run vogtland springs and they are killer for the strip, I have a nastier launch than any other e30's I see launch, and can pull sub 2.1 60ft's on street tires reliably, and 2.0's on street tires are pretty solid launches. Even most turbo guys are slow at the strip because 1) they never practice, 2) They run 17's with rubber band tires and have no sidewall 3) they run too stiff of rear springs and too lowered to squat and go, in conjunction with their already too stiff rubber band tires, and have no traction form a dig. And it always takes more power to get an IRS car to the same traps as a 4link car setup for drag, just how it works. With all of that working against an e30 vs other cars at the strip, that's why most people look slow at the strip. Aerodynamics and weight aren't even factors, that's just ricer bullshit, I wouldn't waste time pulling anything off. Those factors matter, just not until you're in a sub 12 second car. Your best bet is tires and suspension and practice. A chip helps for top end breathing room before having to shift, but you'll never be fast, or even quick, but it's fun getting that sick launch down in an e30.
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#9
09-29-2009, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
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__________________
Disclaimer: At any time, any single thing I say or do could be entirely or partly incorrect, wrong, or just plain in dramatic error. Take all comments, advice, and criticism at face value, and research all references I give in my posts.
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#10
09-29-2009, 08:51 AM
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I'm pretty sure that while it won't hurt anything as far as physical damage to the car goes it might lose you a small amount of power. My reasoning here is that when you raise the octane level in your fuel it takes a little longer to get a complete burn. Following this logic (if you can call it that) you would have to bump the timing up a little to make more power so running high octane on a tune for lower octane would actually lose you power. Not 100% on this so if I'm wrong feel free to tell me that I'm an idiot and tell me how it actually works.
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 Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute. Light a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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#12
09-29-2009, 10:00 AM
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And aerodynamics affecting acceleration aren't going to matter much when you're trapping 80mph. so why don't you quit crying about me being honest and that making me a big fat meanie head, and go find another thread to tell people all about how you make e30's go fast by reducing their weight, because everything I said was 100% true. Chip, diff, springs, and tires, and anything else short of a built motor, boost, or nitrous isn't going to make notable differences in 1/4 mile performance. Period. the end. Nothing to discuss or argue. The only way weight reduction is going to bump you down from 16 to 15 second is if you chop half the damn car off. Last edited by mulholland; 09-29-2009 at 10:01 AM..
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#13
09-29-2009, 10:30 AM
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The 100 lbs per .1 secound works in 13 and 19 secound cars I've done it, its true.
To the original poster, remember, your not racing the other 100 people that show up at the track, your racing yourself. Its all about being consistant and pulling good short times. It really doesn't matter where you stand time wise. Just have fun with it!
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#14
09-29-2009, 10:58 AM
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some of the stuff you did will make the car worse. e36 springs? didnt someone tell you not to do that? stop being such a damn hack. Besides, you don't want stiffer rear springs for drag racing.
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#16
09-29-2009, 02:28 PM
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Go for it.
ignore the nay sayers freaking blast I drag my E30 in the 1/8th miles 10.00 sec 70 mph just run in the class that fits. read threads in drag racing section too I just did it for fun one Friday night, been back 3 times.. I smoked alot of ricers and got smoked by many too, its all good
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Cheers,
-----Richard -----"Fammily Guy Budget Racer"-----  Delphin Metallic '87 325is sleeper (Cardinal Red interior) money pit 
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#17
09-29-2009, 03:22 PM
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Also, even if it is some retard with 17" rubber band tires who doesn't know what he's doing, if he knows enough that he daily drives the car, he's still gonna kick your ass with 300hp vs. your 170, so how do you figure he's slow compared to you? There are also people on r3v and E30tech who have gained everything up to 1/2+ sec. from weight savings, and that's putting it into practice. But yeah, your theory is probably right.  Stop bullshitting and being rude all the time. There's just no need for it. It doesn't make you seem cool or more knowledgeable and it just makes everyone else have to put up with the bullshit and rudeness. Ever notice how most of the better, more helpful, real life knowledge members on here are the older (minus moberg) generally nicer laid back members?
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 Near the Madison WI area and need help? Just let me know. (E30 or just need an extra hand with your other vehicle, whatever)
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#18
09-29-2009, 04:33 PM
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lol its only some fun lighten up people. i just want to shave every extra 10th i can off. as for launches i will have no problems there. i can get off the line (in the dry) without a peep from the tyres in 1st tho 2nd always chirps on asphalt or concrete. i should hopefully have 2 more chips to play with if they arrive in time. if they do ill prob do a couple runs on each chip. current is a 6850rpm venom motorsport chip with unknown spec, the ones im waiting on are an alpina B3 2.7 chip and a slightly tweaked version of said B3 chip. also waiting on a dinan chip but thats coming from the good ol US of A so that wont be here in time.
was out working on the car a bit today, got the airbox for the mushroom filter finished and the seal around the edge is pretty damn good.. is say not much air will leak past it so should have a bit of a ram air effect when moving. as for trap speeds.. i think ill do a bit better than 80mph tbh. im guessing ill be running something around 15 second 1/4's just going by videos i see of cars i have raced on the street which run similar times. as for the E36 stiffer rear spring thing.. my logic in it is that i can get off the line without spinning already so the current amount of front to back weight transfer is basically just lost forward movement as i dont need the extra weight for grip. the octane booster thing was just an idea.. want to make sure its running 100%. already have changed quite alot of sensors and whatnot (fuel pump, plugs, leads, distributor, tps, have a lumenition MS4 coil, yadda yadda) so i know the stock/servicable stuff is working 100%. i definately notice a difference running shells ordinary stuff when compared to a lower grade like from texaco or wherever. noticed that even before the chip was put in it.
__________________
WMMotorsports Chip (6850rpm limit), Custom Ram Air Intake, Scorpion Backbox, Lumenition MS4 Coil, NGK Copper Cores, 5 Spd Swap, M Coupe Shifter & Extended Support Arm, Ruff Auto Technik Trans Mounts, 4.10 Diff, UUC Motorwerks RK2, 8k 35w HID's, Front Strut Brace, E36 M3 Half Leather Seats, Jamex -60F/-55R (mm) Spring Kit.
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#19
09-29-2009, 04:45 PM
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If you want to run faster times remove ALL weight you can from the car. Simple enough. Take out all the seats, take off the door panels, glove box, middle console, etc. After all is said and done you will practically negate driver weight by removing the seats. I know you said you want to keep the interior, but if you want to run faster times it -has to be done-. As far as gas goes you wont gain anything from running ultra high octane or octane booster unless you need it for your tune. You could always advance the timing and run something silly, like 110  but I'm still not sure how much extra power you would see out of it. 91/92/93 should be good depending on tune.
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#20
09-29-2009, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
You make valid points in your posts regarding the rear suspension in a drag car; you generally want to have a stiff front suspension in a car, and a softer rear (but not so soft that the rear end wallows out on launch). Too stiff a rear suspension and you get wheelspin and hop like crazy. There's a reason why Dodge musclecars consistently beat Chevy and Ford vehicles on the strip when raced straight out of the box in the 60's and 70's; with two leafs on the right side of the car, and three on the left, it compensated for the natural squat of a RWD car when launched from a standstill. The overall effect of this was to even out the dip of the rear suspension. While the Chevy and Ford vehicles dipped lower on one side, lifting up the opposite side and causing wheelspin, the Dodges offered a fluid transmission of power to the ground, utilizing both wheels evenly to launch. You're also correct with your mention of thin-wall tires on oversized rims. While that sort of thing is preferably on a track car (to reduce sidewall flex and loss of grip), it's definitely not preferable on a drag strip. Two points to you for that comment. Aerodynamics agreeably don't begin to play a major part on the drag strip until you're reaching much higher speeds than his car is capable of reaching at this point in time. However... To say that shedding weight from the car will not benefit his 1/4-mile times is at best mis-informed and at worse just plain ignorant. Whether it be a track car or a drag car, the loss of weight can be seen in many ways, whether it be better handling or a quicker trap speed and overall time. Take two cars, with identical engine power, suspension, driver skill, etc. Now add 500 pounds to one car. Every other thing between the cars being equal, the lighter car will win 100% of the time. It comes down to a little thing called a Power-to-Weight Ratio, or P/W. Here's the thing with P/W. It can be used to compare everything from batteries to the space shuttle. Weigh a certain brand of battery and then divide that by the total amount of power it can put out, then compare that against other batteries. Applied to your car, the formula is thus: P/W Ratio = Power of engine/Curb weight of car Ex: A 1989 325i, bone stock, has a curb weight of approx. 2500 pounds. The M20 engine of that year is rated at, from the factory, 168hp. P/W Ratio = 168/2500 = P/W Ratio = .0672hp per pound of vehicle weight (as a matter of comparison, a Corvette C6 has a P/W of .135hp per pound of curb weight) Let me go off-track here for a moment and address the potential weight-loss that can be had with an E30. Taken from 'The Official E30 Weight Reduction Thread', here's a list of possible weight loss that can be done with an E30: Quote:
168/1932 = .0869hp per pound of curb weight Getting better! Let's look at some more weight-savings, again from the official E30 weight-reduction thread: Quote:
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The end result of all this is that the car launches quicker, gets up to speed quicker, brakes quicker, handles better, and a host of other positive effects. Coupled with a 4.10 rear end, it makes for a very quick-accelerating vehicle. Also keep mind that most drag cars are running a 4.55-5.50 ration in their differential; when you only have to go a quarter-mile, fuel-economy is a null issue. You made some competent points in your posts, Mulholland. Sticky tires, a sorted suspension, and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE will thoroughly enhance your ability to scoot down the drag strip. At this point, I would say that indeed is more important than shedding weight out of the car. If you don't have the skills to properly launch it, no amount of weight-loss or engine power gain will make you a drag-strip god, nor will you do well with spinning street tires or a suspension that looks like it's taking a dump every time you launch. DMCL, you need to make a decision about how serious you want to get with dragging your car. I understand you have no money, and that this is happening in a few days, but is this something you want to continue doing? Do you want to be competitive, or just go out and have a fun time whether you win or lose? My recommendation is to take your car as-is to the track, race your races, and talk to some of the other folk there. Watch to see who's properly launching their cars, then pick their brains. You'd be surprised at the amount of information they'll be willing to share and teach you, and knowledgeable teaching is one of the best upgrades you can do to your car. My tirade is over...it ended up being longer than I anticipate, but there it is. I'm going to go have a beer now. 
__________________
Disclaimer: At any time, any single thing I say or do could be entirely or partly incorrect, wrong, or just plain in dramatic error. Take all comments, advice, and criticism at face value, and research all references I give in my posts.
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#21
09-29-2009, 08:58 PM
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Don't get me wrong, I am not saying you cannot pull time off your passes by reducing weight, I am just saying being honest and practical, unless he is going to do his best to tub the car, he won't see gains from it and shouldn't bother.
Weighing less affects all aspects of the vehicle, handling, stopping, going, economy. It's good to be lighter, but not necessarily practical. I just wanted to let him know all of the mods and best ways to be faster and have more fun. You can push the envelope further of course for marginal gains, but you'll never see the gains you'd see in a car with a 4link solid rear end that was meant to go straight and hard that you'll get from an indy rear end like our poor e30's have. I love it everywhere but the strip... then I hate it for making me slow and end up being worried to push too hard or I have to take it home on a flatbed. Just remember to have fun, launch on the last yellow, and don't be afraid to launch it, because it's sticky out there, and if you don't launch hard you'll stumble the start.
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#22
09-29-2009, 09:54 PM
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i know its not going to make a noticable difference.. just incase ur thinking im a total goon lol
i do however run around with a spare, tool box, duffle bag full of cleaning stuff, sub and some other stuff on a daily basis. i do think if i remove the stuff mentioned it might make the slightest of gains on the butt dyno.. oh, not forgetting taking the uber heavy muffler out of the equation. RE: launching, no problems there. i have a 4.10 diff, i couldnt get it to stumble if i tried tbh. i can come off the clutch at like 1500rpm and break the rears loose if i wanted to tho last time i did on the street i got insane amounts of wheel hop all thru 1st so my line of thinking is since 1st is so short with the 4.10 i dont really need to launch as such because there is no stumbling or bogging point apart from dropping the clutch at idle. as for the E36 springs, i ask because i happen to have a set of OEM E36 318i springs laying around so its totally free.. i wouldnt actually go out and buy E36 rears lol.. just thinkin less squat means more forward movement and it does squat and bounce back a bit into 2nd and i know ill be chirping 2nd all day long if its dry.
__________________
WMMotorsports Chip (6850rpm limit), Custom Ram Air Intake, Scorpion Backbox, Lumenition MS4 Coil, NGK Copper Cores, 5 Spd Swap, M Coupe Shifter & Extended Support Arm, Ruff Auto Technik Trans Mounts, 4.10 Diff, UUC Motorwerks RK2, 8k 35w HID's, Front Strut Brace, E36 M3 Half Leather Seats, Jamex -60F/-55R (mm) Spring Kit.
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#23
09-29-2009, 09:57 PM
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stiff means wheel spin which means wasted energy, soft means squating which means stored energy and traction, to put thinks simply. You do want a slight amount of wheel spin, just not much.
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#24
09-29-2009, 11:38 PM
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Hal's biggest text post ever?
__________________
"Nation? You're like a family to me. That's why this year I'm claiming you all as dependents." -His Truthfully truthiness-ed Excellency The Most Honorable Rev. Fr. Professor Sir Dr. Stephen Tiberius "C-Train" Colbert, Esquire, D.F.A., SC, America's Newsman, Star Commander of the Order of Colbert, Greatest Living American, is a news reporter and anchor known for his romantic style, supergravitastic poise, Lincolnish intellect, extreme uber-hotness, and witty delivery.
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#25
09-30-2009, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
__________________
Disclaimer: At any time, any single thing I say or do could be entirely or partly incorrect, wrong, or just plain in dramatic error. Take all comments, advice, and criticism at face value, and research all references I give in my posts.
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