Seat Twist Fix Help

[TGreene]

So, I have my seats out of the car, and took the passenger seat into the kitched to get some good light and follow attack eagle's DIY. I go to heat up the thimble so I can pull the cable out, and I cant get it out.



This is from the underneath the front of the seat:



Here are the two motors:



This is after I heated it with a lighter for 10 seconds, then tried to pull the cable out with some needle nosed pliers.



So I heat up the thimble, then pull at the cable right next to the thimble and try to get it out. I am putting out a good deal of force, probably 50-100lbs, and the cable won't budge. I don't want to get it too much hotter either, I could smell the burning after a few seconds, and the flame is really close to the bottom of the seat.

What am I doing wrong?

Also, looking at the first and third picture, which cable in the third pic should I be working on if my seat is leaning the way it is?

Another problem I have is that I cannot unbolt the motor because the two tools that would work either don't fit or have only sizes 9mm and above.

Thanks for whatever you guys can help with.

[LouieD]

I unbolted the motors, but did not completely remove them. That allows you to swing them away from their holders and allow the thimble/cable to come out to a place you can work with them. You will need an 8mm combo wrench. It's slow and tedious work, but it's the only way I was able to get it done. Once you do the first cable, the others come easy. I did all cables for both seats. I found that all of them were too short.

[TGreene]

K, maybe I will have to go borrow it from a friend.

So I have read quite a few of these DIYs, and I am a little fuzzy on the actual problem.

This is what I think it is, please correct me if I am wrong:

There is a metal cable within the black sheath, and over time the metal cable shrinks back within the black sheath, making it shorter/tighter than it should be? So to fix this, you get the cable and sheath out, shorten the sheath so that the cable is flush with the thimble again, then you somehow readjust the seats?

[540msportva]

You've got to loosen the motor to get the cable out. No ifs and or buts about it. You don't have to pull the motor, but you do have to get out 2 out of 3 screws on both sides, matching screws that is. You're a step ahead by removing them completely, I usually just tilt them back and can get to it. It's a pain, but a ratcheting wrench and a ratchet set with some bend attachments can help.

On top of that, your assumption of the fix is right on. Pull the metal piece off, cut a little pieces of the black sheath off, and pull the metal internal part out about 1-2" out of the sheath. Plug it all back in. The real key is to get the seat lined up before you take it out. Get it as level as possible (you probably don't want to hear this as your seat is out.) and than go through this process.

[TGreene]

K, thanks for the help 540, and car.

I found a little ratchet that would slowly get those 8MM bolts out, one click at a time.



2 8MM bolts one each side and the rear-ward motor is out.



The thimble/cable pulled right out once the motor was loose. It was hard to get the thimble off. I put a lighter under it for 20 seconds, then could only yank it off when I held the cable with one hand and use the pliers like this with the other:



Once I got the thimble off, I had a good look at how it worked. I also noticed that I could pull the metal cable out. It came out about 6 inches, then I got afraid that I was breaking something so I stopped testing it and slid it back in. I went to put the thimble back on without cutting anything up, and found that I could not get it slid back over the sheath without hitting it with a hammer:



So I got it back on, and loosely bolted the motor back in place. Tomorrow I will put it back in the car, recline the seats all the way to that there is no lean, take it back out then try cutting at the sheath.

I took a few mins to wipe down underneath the seat where a lot of dirty and dust had collected. I stayed away from where the rails need the grease, but I made sure that everything that is visible or will touch the carpet is clean.

I will let you guys know how it goes tomorrow.

[ltflint]

K, maybe I will have to go borrow it from a friend.

So I have read quite a few of these DIYs, and I am a little fuzzy on the actual problem.

This is what I think it is, please correct me if I am wrong:

There is a metal cable within the black sheath, and over time the metal cable shrinks back within the black sheath, making it shorter/tighter than it should be? So to fix this, you get the cable and sheath out, shorten the sheath so that the cable is flush with the thimble again, then you somehow readjust the seats?

You pretty much summed it up. This is the DIY I found most helpful:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/i/miales/seatcablesfix.htm

[TGreene]

Thanks, that is a really helpful link.

K, so when I cut the sheath I pull the metal cable all of the way out first? Then I slide it back in and it will still work properly?

[jac1d]

Thanks for sharing all the info guys.

I need to do this on my '95 540i with memory seats but I'm a bit intimidated, especially when I saw that the memory seats are a bit more complex. I'll read through the various how-tos and come back with any questions.

TGreene, looking forward to hearing how you made out.

-Jeff

[ltflint]

Thanks, that is a really helpful link.

K, so when I cut the sheath I pull the metal cable all of the way out first? Then I slide it back in and it will still work properly?

Exactly. Pull the flex shaft out of the sheath, heat the metal end and pull it off with the pliers. Cut the sheath, heat the metal end again and re attach it to the sheath. slide the flex shaft back in, you will need to rotate it with your fingers to ensure that it has seated itself and then connect it back to the motor. With the seat out of the car, this is a very quick and easy job. Haven't done it with the seat in.

Thanks for sharing all the info guys.

I need to do this on my '95 540i with memory seats but I'm a bit intimidated, especially when I saw that the memory seats are a bit more complex. I'll read through the various how-tos and come back with any questions.

TGreene, looking forward to hearing how you made out.

-Jeff

Did my memory sport seats. It was actually easier than the non memory passenger seat. I found that the motors were more easily removed.

[BMWheadSpence]

fyi, use a drill on the metal cable to adjust the seat back to where it is level. its kinda fun too

[TGreene]

Anyone have a link to a DIY that uses a drill?

I have heard of it before, but only when reading DIY that say stuff like "With this method, you don't have to use a drill" =p

[LouieD]

I left my seats in the car, seat back reclined as far back as possible and the bottom of the seat resting on a box, therefore allowing me access to the cables and motors. Motors plugged in so once the cables were shortened I could use the motors to re-align everything. No drill but I'm sure that will work. Make sure it's a variable speed drill and go slow.

[attack eagle]

WEll, your problem was trying to use pliers.

you have about .8 seconds MAX to get the cable out before the plastic resolidifies.

Heat thimble, yank sheath with other hand. Trim if needed and heat thimble, reinsert.

I did both seats in something like 30 minutes without unplugging the seats, unbolting anything, etc.

I fixed the front one in about 5 minutes without even unbolting the seat from the floor.


There are 3 ways...

Lighter on thimble and yank (to pull the sheath for trimming).

The old "cut the sheath, and use fuel lhose and clamps to reassemble it shorter" method

Or the take it apart with a wrench first, THEN use the lighter to take the thimble off. (or replace the cable completely).

[TGreene]

Alright, I put the seat back in the car and plugged it in. I tried to move it around to a point where there was no lean, but it was all messed up. I put it all the way back where it seemed like there was the least lean, then took the thimble off, then cut about 1/4 inch off of the sheath. I put it back in and there was less of a lean, although it was hard to tell if it was entirely straight. I am perpendicular to a hill, so the passenger side is leaning downhill already. It makes judging it difficult. Getting the thimble back on the sheath is really frustrating. My hands were already all greased up from taking it all apart, and I was trying not to get the carpet dirty (The carpet I had just spent so much time cleaning), trying to get a good hold on things to get the thimble back on firmly but I was slipping all over the place. I used vice grips to hold the greased up sheath still while I used needle nosed pliers to hold the thimble, heat it up, then try and jam it on. That kind of worked, then the thimble would not fit back into the motor even though the motor was unbolted and hanging loosely. Then I held the motor to keep it steady, and moved the seats around and they seemed alright, and I got into the seat the test it while leaning forward and holding the motor, and I was moving the seat back and forth and one side would stop moving while the other continued, getting all twisted and making funny noises.

I tried to remain patient, but I was sweating into my once clean carpet and getting really frustrated. I had to leave it.

I will get back to it later, but I hate you attack eagle for saying you did it in 5 mins.

[ltflint]

Still have an issue with the cables. Both of them must be turning their respective adjustments before you can address the twist issue. Keep working on shortening the sheath, a small bit at a time, as you don't want to cut too much off. Once you get both of the cables operating, you need to get the two sides back in sync.

Run the motor so that the seat is all the way forward. The take the cables out of the motor one at a time and again run the recline motor forward, this time with only one of the seat cables in the motor. Do this for each of the two cables. This will make sure the seat is at the furthest point in it's travel on both sides, and therefore hopefully straight and both sides should be in sync. Then plug both of the seat cables back in and your seat should recline in sync as long as both of the cables are operating properly.

[TGreene]

Get them lined up by using the motor with only one of the cables in it at a time. It is so simple, but I never even thought of it.

Thanks, seriously. I am dumb.

[jac1d]

TGreene,

You're great at doing write ups, can you re-summarize everythign when you're done? I'm not sure I'm entirely following the one cable at a time thing, but then I'm slow...

Thanks,

-Jeff

[TGreene]

Each motor has two cables sticking out either side. This is a bad pic, its hard to see the black sheaths but you can see the thimbles on either side. (The motor is loose and hanging down, in case you are wondering why it is skewed)



What he is saying is to calibrate the seat one side at a time to make it even, so move the seat with only one cable in until you match them up, then when you are satisfied and you are sure that both cables stick out about 1/2 inch out of the sheath (either they were not recessed in the first place, or you cut off some of the sheath to compensate for it), you put them both back into the motor, and resecure the motor.

And about a writeup, yeah I will put one up. I am sure my techniques are not as good as other members, but I will make up for it with a bunch of pics.

[ArnZ]

Jeez reading this makes me want to fix mine... but at the same time cbf doing it.

I cant wait for your write up. The more DIY links the better.

[TGreene]

I went out to work on it today, and finish it up before taking my car to my friends for the clutch/FW stuff, and could not find my camera. I took a video camera outside instead, and took a long video that has me messing around with it. It should be pretty good at giving people an idea of what the problem is and what they will be trying to do before they get under the seat, eventhough it is clear that I am not entirely sure of what I am doing.

In the end, my seat is straight though. I am not sure if the cables will stay in the motor, but hopefully they do. I am guessing when the motor is fully bolted back into the seat, there is some mechanism keeping the sheaths/cables connected, in the same way that ya can't yank em out if the motor is bolted in.

Ill post the video when it is uploaded to youtube.

[nirvana19]

This can be done extremely easily with three things: 8mm ratcheting wrench (the clicking type), any cheapo propane torch, and a chuckless drill.

First, remove the seat completely from the car so you have easy access to everything. It's just three reverse torx bolts (two holding down the seat and one for the seatbelt) and the power cable (maybe a few cables with memory seats, they're all nice and color coded so it's a straightforward process). If one side of the seat will still move so that you can straighten the seat out even though it may be an undesirable driving position, do that before you remove the seat so you can just skip the drill part later on.

Next, use the ratcheting wrench to loosen/remove as needed the bolts which hold in the seat motors so you can pivot them out far enough to release the cables. Remove those cables and you will notice that some the square cables on the side are shortened on the sides where the seat is no longer moving. They should protrude about half an inch, if they appear to be the right length then the cable has slid out at the other end (where the cable meats the actual gears). Just slide the cable in as far as possible, twisting if you have to, to actuate it on the other side.

Now, with the propane torch on about the medium setting heat the metal end for about 2-3 seconds and use needle nose pliers to pull it right off, it should come off easily and cleanly (which won't happen with a lighter, I've tried). If it doesn't come off, heat it just a little more, there is a point before it really starts to melt where it is soft and will pull off with very little force. Now, use any sort of cutting tool to cleanly cut down the plastic cable until there is about 1/2 inch of metal sticking out when the metal part has been pushed in (be careful not to burn yourself) as far as it will go while actuating the other end. Then just heat up the metal part for 3-4 seconds and quickly jam it onto the plastic with the pliers, when it cools it will be stuck and the cable should look unmolested. Now, use whatever method you can to turn the square inner cable until the seat is in the appropriate position.

The drill makes things easier because you don't need to have a power cable connected to the seat to adjusted the seatback (once you pull the cable out you lock the drill onto the end of the cable and you run the drill in either forward or reverse until the seat is in the desired position, if this doesn't make sense to you know it'll become clearer when you remove the cable and see how the mechanism works).

Once that is done, stick the cables back in the motors so that the metal ends are securely in the motor, push the motor back into place so that the cable is locked, and put all the 8mm bolts back on.

Put the seat back in, installation is reverse of removal. Done.

*Note: the same process applies for the memory seats, the memory seats just have an extra plastic attachment on the end which is used to recall the cable positions. Because of this. the square cable parts have to be much longer to pass through that extra part and then actuate the motor, I don't remember how much exactly but it should be fairly obvious by looking at the motor and knowing that the motor itself is identical to the non-memory seats. Other than this, the process is identical and the motors are no more difficult to remove. Don't separate the motor from the memory attachment, there's no need to.

[TGreene]

Yeah, I did it with keeping the seat in the car, just lifting it up. I also used moved the seat with only one of the cables in the motor in order to get the back straight. Then when the seat was straight, I took both cables out, made sure 1/2 inch or so of the cable was sticking out of the sheath (while the seat was straight), then put the cables back into the motors, made sure it worked, and bolted the motor back in.

The video files are large. I have to split it into a 9.5 minute part and an 8 minute part. The first file is taking almost an hour to upload to youtube.

[nirvana19]

Yeah, I did it with keeping the seat in the car, just lifting it up. I also used moved the seat with only one of the cables in the motor in order to get the back straight. Then when the seat was straight, I took both cables out, made sure 1/2 inch or so of the cable was sticking out of the sheath (while the seat was straight), then put the cables back into the motors, made sure it worked, and bolted the motor back in.

The video files are large. I have to split it into a 9.5 minute part and an 8 minute part. The first file is taking almost an hour to upload to youtube.

Did you actually shorten the cables or just pull the cable out of the sheath a bit? It'll probably work fine if you did the latter, but if you didn't shorten the cables they might pop out on one end again (happened to my friends car even after he shortened the cable, just not by enough). If you're just pulling the cable out 1/2 on one end, the other end is likely barely touching. Fortunately, the cable usually pops out on the motor side instead of the gear side because of the way the cable is bent, but its still advisable to go through the procedure to cut down the sheath to be sure that the seat will work reliably.

I'd personally do it for all the cables for all the motors (headrest, height, etc.) because on EVERY E32/E34 seat I've found ALL the cables have shrunk and inevitably slip. I'd be happy to help out anyone in the area, this is the same thing those people on ebay charge a couple hundred dollars for (seat frame "rebuilds").

[TGreene]

I pulled the cables out of the sheath, cut the sheath, then put the cables all the way back in. I would be able to show you the video now but for some reason when I left the house while the upload had about 20 mins left, something happened and I got home just now and the video uploaded with audio, but not visual.

Bleh, too tired, going to sleep. Tomorrow maybe.

[jac1d]

Looking forward to it. Thanks for taking it.

-Jeff