Latest ST tire info

[murph1379]

ok guys, I haven't seen any recent updates from the "heavy car" crowd, so I though I'd start another thread to solicit feedback. We've all seen the GRM tests, but I'm not sure how applicable those are to cars weighing 1,000+ lbs more.

I'm shopping for my "second half" tires now, trying to figure out if there's a compelling reason to move away from the RE-11s.

I have little feedback, since I haven't really run anything other than the RE-11s. I like them on the street, they're working well in autocross, though I feel like they don't handle heat well, they seem to drop off in the afternoon. I should look at my data logs for confirmation on that. That's the main reason I'm at all considering something else.

Hollis said *anyone* can drive the RE-11s fast. That's probably good for me. Can anyone expand on that? They have a forgiving limit? I would say they do, but my reference point is the A6.

I'm also interested in hearing about the Kumho XS and the Yok AD08. I like what I hear regarding lateral grip and heat tolerance in the XS, and I like the price, can anyone say anything bad? Anyone test them back to back on a heavy car with the RE-11 and AD08?

The AD08 sounds like it has great dry and wet grip and responds well. It has stiff sidewalls, which makes me nervous it might be uncomfortable on the street. (the difference between 35psi and 40psi in the RE-11s is enough to make them annoying to me on the street) Any feedback on that?

[Fair]

If you want to use them on the street the AD08 will ride a tick former... but most autocrossers that can afford the pricier AD08 aren't going to do much street driving on them, or wouldn't care about street ride. What's more important... cheapness, ride quality, or getting the fastest tire for the class? There is no right or wrong answer - you have to decide what your priorities are.

I drove our EVO today on the AD08s (mounted them for a race this weekend; drove down the street to fuel it up) and it rides about the same as the OEM Yokohama ADVAN tires do (the normal wheel/tire we keep on the car for daily driver use). They rode just like the other sets of ADVAN AD07s and A048s we have for the car, too.


even unshaved these things feel razor sharp

Nothing can match the feel or responsiveness of the Yokohama. Everything else available for ST feels like a soggy marshmallow to me.

[murph1379]

I do have a set of full tread 255/17 star specs that I can swap on for daily duty, but I'd rather not, daily driving the tires is one of the big attractions of STX to me, and I've been very much enjoying that aspect. =]

Terry have you driven many other STX/STU cars with other tires this year, and can you comment on their characteristics? I know you're Yok contract, and seem to like them, but some comparative info would be valuable.

[everbruin]

i've xs on m3; great dry autox and decent ride, much better than ad07. haven't run in wet and not planning to =)

[The Nebulizer]

The Kumho XS is an excellent tire... in the dry. It handles heat incredibly well. I did a TnT the other day in 90 degree weather and put down 25+ runs with no noticeable fall off (and often little to no break between 4 or more runs). They love heat. (I did see some wear though - as you would expect). This tire seems to really handle the heavy e46 well. And with 80 runs in so far they still feel sticky - literally - your hand actually sticks to the tire when they warm up. Their achilles heel is the rain though - they just don't have solid grip in the rain. For that I assume the Yoko and RE-11 are better as seen in the Tirerack review. Check that out if you haven't seen it already - but be sure to look at all the data not just their summaries as they include a lot of things you probably don't care so much about.

Ideally I would run Kumho XS in the dry and have another set of full tread tires for rain - maybe Toyo R1R even. (They are said to not handle heat well, but not much heat in the rain.)

[Fair]

Terry have you driven many other STX/STU cars with other tires this year, and can you comment on their characteristics? I know you're Yok contract, and seem to like them, but some comparative info would be valuable.

I admit that I'm hardly the expert on every one of the latest crop of ST tires, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night and I do have some experience with all of them, if even slight. One of the guys here at Vorshlag has Kumho XS tire on his daily driver/HPDE car (VW MarkV). I drove it to lunch this week - they feel good, just not "Yokohama" good. Ride nice tho.



We raced on a set of Dunlop Star Specs on the EVO right after Brian bought the car last year, tracking and autocrossing on them until they were done. Feel was mushier, grip was bit less, but they did ride better on the street. Several of our local testers have used the Dunlops, RE11, XS or R1Rs and and I've driven some of their cars on a fun run, on our "Test track", or in an autocross co-drive. They all felt remarkably similar to the Dunlop, really... except for...


265/35/18 Yokes on 18x10.5" wheels fit this car so well... its a shame to hobble it with 245s

We've raced the EVO on AD07s, A048s and AD08s this year. They all felt very similar to each other and each one makes great grip, with the A048 being the fastest (60 treadwear), and the AD07 and AD08 were very closely matched (but the AD07 was a 265mm and the AD08 was a 245mm tire).


Left: Yokohama A048s (265/35/18) look great after 7 hours of continuous track abuse. Right: The 245mm AD08s mounted on a 10" wheel

For what its worth I would gladly pay full price for the AD08... Any advantage in tires usually does come at a premium. But don't take my word for it... especially if you are racing in STU. Please - use anything BUT the AD08 when you come to Nationals. I hear the Falkens are making a comeback!

[murph1379]

i've xs on m3; great dry autox and decent ride, much better than ad07. haven't run in wet and not planning to =)

The ride was better than the AD07, or the grip, or both?

[STirish]

I can't believe we're having a comfort conversation about max performance street tires! AKA, autocross tires. If you really want to know, the AD08s ride little better and have a touch less noise than the Z1*. IMO.

Having run the RE-11s and AD08s back to back the AD08s are a touch faster. The RE-11s can be fast, but require you to be on your game getting that fast run in on your first or second run before they fall off (Like a rock). We have moved away from the RE-11s due a few things, but mostly the ability to take heat and feel of the stiffer sidewalls. I would consider running the RE-11s if we didn't co-drive due to the chance of winning contingency.

On a ~60 second course we ran the RE11 in the morning and AD08 in the afternoon. I ran my fastest time on the RE11s my 5th (9th run on the tires due to co-driving) run in the morning due to pulling my head out. Came on in the afternoon on AD08s and immediately ran 1.3 seconds faster. That was a combination of better driving, cool tires, and a slightly faster tire. At that point I was pretty much plateaued. Take from it what you will.

We have a set of good RE11s and AD08s on identical wheels sitting next to each other. I'm taking the AD08s to Packwood even though there is a chance at winning money on the RE11s. I need all the help I can get! Don't know if that is helpful or not.

The question I have for you is, why not try the AD08s for the experience if nothing else?

Rob

[murph1379]

Thanks Rob, that was helpful.

Do you notice any setup changes are required between the two? What kind of pressures are you running on the RE-11s?

[ding]

http://www.caranddriver.com/blog/200...nine-less.html

good read

[fsmtnbiker]

I drove on pretty-dead Z1's back to back with pretty fresh RE11s at a local BMWCCA event. The RE11s were slower, and noticeably less sharp through transitions and in feel. I would not run the RE11's if I had a choice between them and the AD08, AD07, or Dunlop.

The AD07s and AD08s seem pretty similar to me, at least in the cars I've driven them on. The Dunlops are right there too, I don't feel like they give up much to the Yoks and seem to be a little more forgiving if you surpass the limits (or overdrive them.)

Personally, if I was buying tires, I would run either the Dunlops or the Yokohamas, just depends on how much money you want to spend. They both handle heat really well.

[sab0276]

Anyone try the new Nitto NT05? How do they compare?

-Scott

[n2bimmer]

Great info here, But im not sure what you guys mean by the ---- tire was slower or faster. You mean sharper on the turn?.

[murph1379]

Great info here, But im not sure what you guys mean by the ---- tire was slower or faster. You mean sharper on the turn?.

lower autocross time.

A tire can feel better, but ultimately have less grip, and therefore a slower time.

[n2bimmer]

lower autocross time.

A tire can feel better, but ultimately have less grip, and therefore a slower time.

ahh, i see. tnx.

[everbruin]

only the ride =). rob, the ride is a side benefit, but a significant one when the car is on koni sa and very bumpy san fran streets. ps good luck vs geoff in packwood; he schooled me twice here

The ride was better than the AD07, or the grip, or both?

thanks, good to compare to http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=118

http://www.caranddriver.com/blog/200...nine-less.html

[STirish]

Thanks Rob, that was helpful.

Do you notice any setup changes are required between the two? What kind of pressures are you running on the RE-11s?

Surprisingly enough, not much change needed in setup at least for the AWD cars. The setup has been changing constantly since we stuffed suspension under the car though.

I believe we were running high 30s to low 40s for pressure in the RE11s. They seem to be pretty pressure sensitive.

Rob

[AC330Ci]

Latest Car and driver just did a "Affordable Summer" tire comparison using the PS2 as the benchmark. This is probably not what the OP is looking for, but interesting none the less. The Dunlop is one of the tire compared.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

[BrianGT]

I drove the NT05 last weekend on an MX5, and they didn't feel horrible. They just didn't feel as grippy as the AD08.

[nick325xit 5spd]

Latest Car and driver just did a "Affordable Summer" tire comparison using the PS2 as the benchmark. This is probably not what the OP is looking for, but interesting none the less. The Dunlop is one of the tire compared.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

Sadly, it's an utterly useless test as it ignores the majority of the relevant tires. I do completely agree with the comments about the XS, though.

[chebimmer]

Car and Driver, and a useless test?
Maybe not totally useless though; the bandwagon who for years have been buying PS2s thinking they are the best tire money can buy will wake up.

[savage217]

I have been on star specs this season and have been very happy with them. On the autox they are very good. On the track they were very good the first day but I overheated them the second. I guess it's expected on a street tire, even some r comps will overheat I am told on the track. Overall though hands down best tire I have used but the only other tire I have used to compare it to would be the ps2. I do daily drive the car though and the ride quality is excellent imho.

[Hammer03]

I was *very* happy with the XS I have on my e36, both at autox and driving around town. Coming from azenis, the XS is quieter, has more grip, and is just as easy to drive. I don't think you would regret them, but I haven't tried many other tires just yet. I have a set of RE01R's that will be going on another set of wheels soon, I can't wait to compare (although not the best test, 255-17 bstone on a 9", 245-35-18 kumho on 8.5")

[Shellystone]

I need to get new tires on my bmw, good to know info thanks!