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Thread: my next project

  1. #1
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    my next project

    d.
    Last edited by whatt18yahoo; 08-26-2009 at 11:53 PM.

  2. #2
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    1) the M20 when bored and stroked to 3.1L is less likely to hold high boost as well as a stock bore M20. Weld the head up in the coolant passages and you're still going to have issues with an 86.4mm+ bore.

    2) 304 duration does not equal a good turbo cam by default

    3) individual throttle bodies means you will have to run a standalone engine management typically in alpha-n or hybrid alpha-n, which means your performance chip will be useless

    4) turbo and ITB is not necessary nor is it easy to tune

    5) a steel spring is preferred to a titanium one

    6) over sized valves don't do anything if you can't flow the air through the head, which 12v heads have an issue with

    7) ignition is the simplest part of this all, but you sound like you don't know what you're doing yet because of the chip/ITB thing whereas you will need to run a standalone ECU and thus an ignition system is the least of your worries

    Swap in an S50 or M50 with stroker crank and custom pistons and eagle rods and a modest turbo setup and you'll make more than that M20 (if it existed) could ever dream of.

  3. #3
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    ease is not the goal. and stand alone is not a route i choose to go with. i have a far greater understanding of what i'm doing than you evidenced by your complete and total failure to answer my question. on a sidenote your cartoon signature is amusing

  4. #4
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  5. #5
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    You think you are going to get a good tune running the stock ecu as opposed to a stand alone?
    @22psi?

    As evidenced by your question and reply, I think your understanding is far less than you think.
    Good Luck!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgearhead View Post
    Agreed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Brody View Post
    The big bang happened in an M30 block

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgearhead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kipwinger View Post
    agreed!
    bravo gentlemen! :d
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdog68 View Post
    The day I find my E30 M3 will be the day that all is well in my world. I will see her and smile, then she'll smile because she knows!

  8. #8
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    i still don't understand how none of you people have answered my question. where can i find these parts and do they exist. just please answer that.

  9. #9
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    Great way to introduce yourself!

    For titanium rods Pauter Machine makes them not off the shelf but they do make them http://www.pauter.com/titanium.htm ~$6000.00.

    What do you mean by ignition thats kinda a big category.

    As for a drysump good luck try http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/ they look decent.

    But your not going to find anything that you mentioned off the shelf for the M20. Take 5mall5nail5s advice if you want big power and swap motors, it will be cheaper and more reliable.
    Last edited by 93FIM5; 02-06-2009 at 02:48 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatt18yahoo View Post

    1 set of titanium connecting rods i can find a few people to custom order them from but no one seems to make them

    2 high performance oil pump

    3 ignition

    4 not necesary but i would like to know if the damn thing exists dry sump oil delivery

    if anyone can help me locate the missing items it'd be appreciated.
    For the amount of power the head will make you won't need titanium rods. Damn near any rod manufacturer will be able to provide you an I or H beam rod that will hold above the 600whp power level that the m20 won't make.

    The stock oil pump will provide more than enough oiling for the engine.

    For ignition look into either a megasquirt n spark running wasted spark or perhaps an MSD ignition.

    You don't need dry sump. If you want to spend the money for it look at Moroso's catalog, they supply the parts to build that sort of thing.

    Seriously, it's a 12 valve head with an intake from 1902. You're never going to make 1000whp out if it. It's not going to happen. BMW bottom ends are pretty damn stout, the limitations of your car are all in the head. If you want to make real power you're best off spending the money on an m50. If you chase the power on an m20 you'll hit the wall at around 450 hp and a ton of money spend, and need to throw it all away and start over with an m50 or something else.

    At this point it's all up to you. You can either blunder along pigheaded in your quest for massive m20 power, or you can realize it's an evolutionary dead end and move forward.

    Go ahead and bite. Plenty for everyone.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatt18yahoo View Post
    ease is not the goal. and stand alone is not a route i choose to go with. i have a far greater understanding of what i'm doing than you evidenced by your complete and total failure to answer my question. on a sidenote your cartoon signature is amusing
    Do you really think you have a far greater understanding? I didn't fail to answer your questions, I successfully pointed you back on track because you're very concerned with components that won't make a damned bit of difference or help you along the way.

    If you want to talk about building motors and management and so on, we can do that.

    Just a for instance - you mention "22 psi" - what you don't understand is pressure means nothing. 22 psi on a T2 turbocharger is crap for power vs a T6 at 22 psi. So... 22 psi, who cares? You need to grasp what ITBs accomplish, and what alpha-n is, and then apply that to a forced induction scenario and realize what you're faintly chasing is silly.
    Last edited by 5mall5nail5; 02-06-2009 at 03:44 PM.

  12. #12
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    How are you planning on tuning/running the car from the AFM, a MAF, MAP sensor, Alpha-N or something different?

    AFM you can get chips for, but then you're stuck with the AFM.
    MAF, you'd have to talk to Miller or get a piggy back.
    Anything else you'll need standalone or a piggyback.

    2.7 litres is cheapest to get to, then 2.9, don't you have to increase the bore to get to 3.1 litres?

    ITB's are for throttle response and novelty.

    Off the shelf non titanium conrods will be more than enough if you're worried about the stock ones.

    Hot cam + custom N/A chip + 22psi = an expensive pile of FUBAR metal
    Last edited by 5271990; 02-07-2009 at 07:19 AM.
    E3.4

  13. #13
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    93fim5 thank you for your help unlike most of the other replies you were actually helpful.

    forgot to mention a local shop here in indianapolis has agreed to make me some roller rockers out of 4034 steel or aircraft aluminum or even titianium. i think i'll opt for the steel rockers for the project. they are ball bearing rollers in case you don't know what those are look on wikipedia i'm sure they can help even you 5mall5nail5.
    Last edited by whatt18yahoo; 02-09-2009 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  14. #14
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    To the OP ...

    You should have trolled the forums more before joining ... then you realise who knows their sh!t.

    For example, smallsnail knows his stuff ... here is his build threads http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=855052

    Listen to his advice



    As for me, im sorry i have none, im a mechcanical retard when it comes to most things cars .... I am just good at reading.


  15. #15
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    My advice is to go to the E30 forum and look at other M20 FI builds. You will then realize the limitations / contradictions of your design so eloquently pointed out here.

    GL in any event.

  16. #16
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    what other stuff have you done so we can get a better understanding of your "boost knowledge?"

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatt18yahoo View Post
    stand alone is not a route i choose to go with.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatt18yahoo View Post
    i have a far greater understanding of what i'm doing than you evidenced by your complete and total failure to answer my question.
    Wow that is complete ignorance, goodluck with your project and please post the pictures of your sad face after you blow up your motor. I am pretty sure it will happen if you do everything listed above evidenced by your ignorance clearly posted above.

    Unless you are Corky Bell, I am not amused at the least.

    Welcome to the forums and get ready to be bagged on with your crappy ass attitude.
    Last edited by Electricalbox; 02-09-2009 at 11:08 AM.

  18. #18
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    22psi on a m20.....mmmm POWAHH lol

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatt18yahoo View Post
    93fim5 thank you for your help unlike most of the other replies you were actually helpful.

    forgot to mention a local shop here in indianapolis has agreed to make me some roller rockers out of 4034 steel or aircraft aluminum or even titianium. i think i'll opt for the steel rockers for the project. they are ball bearing rollers in case you don't know what those are look on wikipedia i'm sure they can help even you 5mall5nail5.
    Thanks sir - I know what a roller rocker is, and most are needle bearings because ball bearings have their own issue.

    Anyway, you're dumping money into the M20. Its a great motor in a 2002 or E21/E30, but when looking for serious power its not the platform to go with. You can reach your goal on a stock M50 with ARP 2000 studs and .090" MLS for like 1/100 of the price you're looking at.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatt18yahoo View Post
    93fim5 thank you for your help unlike most of the other replies you were actually helpful.

    forgot to mention a local shop here in indianapolis has agreed to make me some roller rockers out of 4034 steel or aircraft aluminum or even titianium. i think i'll opt for the steel rockers for the project. they are ball bearing rollers in case you don't know what those are look on wikipedia i'm sure they can help even you 5mall5nail5.
    Wow dude, your level of ignorance is amazing. It's like... the level of ignorance is only trumped by your arrogance. Your arrogance is trumped by your ability to troll. Your ability to troll is trumped by your ability to be a dick. For the sake of your impossible goals for your build, let's hope all of this is trumped by your ability to spend Aerospace levels of money, because you're going to need it.

    Go ahead and bite. Plenty for everyone.

  21. #21
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    * Discounted Price * Style 8 Wheels, Brembo Rotors, Stainless Brake Lines ETC. For Sale All New.
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...1#post21382181

  22. #22
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    Lmao, this is a fun thread!

  23. #23
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    i still don't get how so few of you can just supply answers to my questions

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatt18yahoo View Post
    i still don't get how so few of you can just supply answers to my questions
    your questions are ridiculous - people who use titanium connecting rods do not need to know where to get them

  25. #25
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    titanium connecting rods on an m20........ at $6k..............there must be better things to spend your money on then that.

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