e46/e90 Steering wheel swaps onto e36

[ali720]

Just wondering whether anyone has put one of the newer model 3-spoke steering wheels with steering wheel controls onto an e36. I'm just wondering what would be involved. I know the dual-stage airbags likely would be an issue, but maybe there is a work-around for that? What about fitment?

[vlakci]

put a E38/E39 wheel with multufunction. It's a easy yob because it snaps on the E36 steering colum. The slipring is the same size (only 7wires not 4 like on E36). The only thing is to re-pin the conector of the horn and ground + wire one wire to the radio (only will work on CD43 and C33 and C34 models of radio). For the cruise control is much more wiring needed because of the module, actuator, clutch switch... The wheel must be <3/99 because after, were double stage airbags + different slipring + different attachments to the colum.

Here is the picture of mine. I am planing to swap it to a E36/E39 3x spoke M wheel + multifunction.

[AlpineBudBud]

Wow that is nice and really clean looking inside lol

[downeaster1]

What is that little button thing you have in there where the sunglass holder is?

[MParallel]

What is that little button thing you have in there where the sunglass holder is?

It's the same switch as the ACS switch on front of the gearstick. I can only guess it's for some custom option with OEM look on/off switching.

That little console with 2 extra switch spaces is originally for the hands-free mic of the BMW carphone.

[marinm88]

What is that little button thing you have in there where the sunglass holder is?

ejection button for the seat

[jarda]

Vlakci, or anyone else who has put an e38 steering wheel on an e36, could you please help me a bit with this?
I am looking through the electronic manual for E38 and I can't figure out how to get separate signals from each button on the wheel. The E38 uses a common bus for everything which is of no use in E36.. how do you use the buttons?

EDIT: one more thing.. do you know if a 1995 wheel fits an e36 like the 96-99 wheels do?

[MParallel]

Vlakci, or anyone else who has put an e38 steering wheel on an e36, could you please help me a bit with this?
I am looking through the electronic manual for E38 and I can't figure out how to get separate signals from each button on the wheel. The E38 uses a common bus for everything which is of no use in E36.. how do you use the buttons?

EDIT: one more thing.. do you know if a 1995 wheel fits an e36 like the 96-99 wheels do?

He explained it all kindly to me. Up to 3/99 the e38/e39 use the same type slipring as on the e36, with seperate wires for all buttons. Only after that came the can-bus system, together with the dual-stage airbags.

So if you source a <3/99 e38/e39 wheel and the correct slipring, you can get some nice functions from the steering wheel.

I already sourced such a slipring from ebay.de as (of course) this is too cool not to have.

I already have 2 M airbag wheels + airbags, so all I need is the switches for the steering wheel.

After that, you need to repin a couple of wires as the +12v for horn and such are in a different spot. But that's the easiets part of all.

[jarda]

Thanks for the reply but I must disagree. I am looking at the schematics right now and there is a single data line for all the buttons going from the steering wheel to the steering wheel control unit (the control unit is detached on wheels before 96, after that it is integrated in the steering wheel buttons making matters even worse)

You can see for yourself on this screenshot (not allowed to post urls, hence the spaces)
h t t p://w w w.jaroslavklima.com/temp2/bmw/mfu.jpg

EDIT:
This is even better. Page 102 of this document clearly states that the signals from the buttons are digital, transmitted over single line (both before and after 96)
h ttp://w ww.ge39.com/files/part2driverinfo.pdf

[MParallel]

Thanks for the reply but I must disagree. I am looking at the schematics right now and there is a single data line for all the buttons going from the steering wheel to the steering wheel control unit (the control unit is detached on wheels before 96, after that it is integrated in the steering wheel buttons making matters even worse)

You can see for yourself on this screenshot (not allowed to post urls, hence the spaces)
h t t p://w w w.jaroslavklima.com/temp2/bmw/mfu.jpg

EDIT:
This is even better. Page 102 of this document clearly states that the signals from the buttons are digital, transmitted over single line (both before and after 96)
h ttp://w ww.ge39.com/files/part2driverinfo.pdf

Well Vlacki has it in his car right now (as you can see in his pic) and if you check the BMW Electronic Parts Catalogue and look for the e38/e39 you can see the earlier type slipring is exactly the same as the one on the 97+ e36 steering wheels, only with a few extra wires.

Later wheels have the complicated slipring with all the stalks integrated in it too.

The document only goes up to page 60, so I don't know which page 102 you mean.

[jarda]

I can see that but that is not the point.
The point is, that the "few extra wires" are not one wire for each button on the wheel, but one wire for ground, one for +12V and ONE for all the buttons.

Do the buttons on Vlakci's wheel work? I mean the cruise control buttons and the radio buttons - do they do anything? If yes, we are back to my first question.. how?

EDIT again: Ok, his radio buttons work, but I think that is only because the OEM BMW head units understand the digital signals from the steering wheel data line, not because Vlakci has figured out how to separate the signal from each button

[MParallel]

I can see that but that is not the point.
The point is, that the "few extra wires" are not one wire for each button on the wheel, but one wire for ground, one for +12V and ONE for all the buttons.

Do the buttons on Vlakci's wheel work? I mean the cruise control buttons and the radio buttons - do they do anything? If yes, we are back to my first question.. how?

EDIT again: Ok, his radio buttons work, but I think that is only because the OEM BMW head units understand the digital signals from the steering wheel data line, not because Vlakci has figured out how to separate the signal from each button

Yeah could be. I think we need Vlacki's input here as I can only guess. From what I understand, there's more than just one wire, but lets wait for Vlacki. (the e36 slipring is 4-pole, e38/e39 is 7 pole, so there at least 3 extra wires).

[vlakci]

Ok, his radio buttons work, but I think that is only because the OEM BMW head units understand the digital signals from the steering wheel data line, not because Vlakci has figured out how to separate the signal from each button

If we look at a complete sistem for the MFL you have only 4 wires conected to the other electronics of the car:
- power for the MF sistem
- ground,
- Ibus exit
- cruise control exit
For changing the wheel and putting in the 4x wires you need 20min. For putting in the complete cruise control (of an E38/E39) is about 1-2h of work.

The only BMW DIN size radios that operate on Ibus sistem are the CD43 (blaupunkt Business CD), C33 (cassete), C34 (cassete) and one more casete I don't remember the model. The only thing I had to do is to wire +12 and ground to the MFL and then wire the Ibus wire from the MFL to the radio. With the cruise control is ALL operational because I did a complete E38 cruise control instal.

The extra button (ASC above the cigarete lighter) is for Cruise control, because before 9/97 the ON was on the dasboard and OFF on the wheel. Now with newer models the ON/OFF is on the wheel.

For the MFL is possible to wire it to a pioneer, alpine, sony, JVC... unit. There are many companys that build interfaces to put on aftermarket radio on original steering control (MFL).

For now I have the multifunction of an E38 + CD43 radio BMW + CD changer E39 (ALL WORKING IN THE CAR-NO INTERFACES NEEDED!). I am planing to upgrade to M wheel with radio+phone+cruise control switches + dension gateway adapter (USB+Bluetooth). If it will work as planed (mast check the phone answering and USB text display on radio), I will instal it - for now I must first find some time, to go to a dealer and try putting al the dension stuff inside for testing (planed in february-april)

[jarda]

Alright, great job Vlakci

so you don't convert the i-bus signal to anything else, you just use iBus compatible devices. I didn't think of that. I am surprised that an e38 cruise control actuator fits on e36 and that the control unit understands the speed signal and the clutch and brake switch signals. Or do you have automatic transmission? Or a tds? That would explain a lot..

I did a cruise control retrofit myself, but I have the pre-94 cruise control, so no i-bus there. I guess I'll have to figure out the buttons on my own.

In the meantime if anybody knows whether the signal between a pre-96 steering wheel and the MFL control unit is analog or if it is digital, please let me know (I am still waiting for the wheel and I can't find this info anywhere)

[vlakci]

Alright, great job Vlakci

so you don't convert the i-bus signal to anything else, you just use iBus compatible devices. I didn't think of that. I am surprised that an e38 cruise control actuator fits on e36 and that the control unit understands the speed signal and the clutch and brake switch signals. Or do you have automatic transmission? Or a tds? That would explain a lot..
The brake, clutch switches are only on/off signals. The spedd + rpm I had to reprograme the cruise control module. The actuator is by principle the same from E30 to E39. On the E36 you have 4x inputs for controls (on/off) as on E38/E39 (the MFL) it's digital (binary code)

I did a cruise control retrofit myself, but I have the pre-94 cruise control, so no i-bus there. I guess I'll have to figure out the buttons on my own.
Don't mix the terms. Ibus is only the name of the binary sistem that the audio devices use for comunicating between each oder. The cruise control is just "cruise control data line from MFL"

In the meantime if anybody knows whether the signal between a pre-96 steering wheel and the MFL control unit is analog or if it is digital, please let me know (I am still waiting for the wheel and I can't find this info anywhere)
The pre 6/96 (I have it in mine) has a doble unit for the MFL. The MFL switches and from this 1 cable goes to the MFL decoder. There it's separated in 2x lines (one for Ibus, other for cruise control). after 9/96 they eliminated the decoder and made that two cables go directly out the MFL. They have made this by eliminating the ilumination wire going to the MFL (on pre 9/96) and making room for one output wire. The decoder (Ibus and cruise) is then inside the right switch.

On the E36 original you have 2x wires going on the slipring (beside the airbag). the horn brown-red is left where it is, the brown ground is put on pin5 witch is of no use (if instaling -9/96 MFL) or left on pin1 as it is (if going to +9/96 MFL)

The second thing you must be carefull is about the diference in the wiring between 9/96 and 3/99. In 9/97 they eliminated the switch on the dashboard (cruise control ON) and put in together with the OFF button already on the MFL (old wheels have only O the newer I/O)
Then in 3/99 they changed the slipring (not mounted on the wheel but on the colum) and slowely all wheels were coverted to dual stage airbags. If you have the M 3x spoke E36 wheel, there is one good news. The M MFL switches are good from 9/96 to 3/2001 because they waited to change the switches, but allready changed the slipring.

The -9/96 sistem is connected to the car throw: ilumination, ground, ibus, cruise, power + 3x wires going on the MF switches from the decoder (+the cruise control complete sistem that is 90% same as the original E36).
The new sistem (+9/96) is connected to the car throw power, ground, Ibus, cruise directly from the MFL (no decoder) + the cruise control as above described.

Converting from a -9/96 to a +9/96 is easy. You remove the MFL decoder under the wheel and on his connector make some bridges (between pin 4 and 6, 3 and 1, 7 and 5) + change the pins under the steering colum before the slipring (brown wire the ground before on pin5 not useded to pin1 and the old 1pin to 4pin). with this you keep the old wiring already made and have all the options with Ibus and cruise control. The extra ilumination wire that was on pin4 (that now is free) you can put it to pin5 witch is of no use. For +9/97 you have to remove the dashboard switch, witch is now of no use + reprograme the cruise control module to the new sistem (no dashboard switch, new MFL with I/O button)

In short: you have 3x sistems. the -9/96, the +9/96 to 9/97 and the +9/97 to 3/99

[MParallel]

Excellent pioneering work Vlacki! I would've never found this out myself, while I think it's one of the coolest futures. I'll go for the no-dash-switch setup with the I/O switchblock.

Jarda:

<3/99 slipring for e38/e38 that fits the later e36 steering wheels directly:



As you can see, on the airbag side, you have the yellow airbag signal plug and the ground connector, plus the small one for the horn (or vice versa) + an extra wide connector for the switchblocks (I only see one though, so I wonder how this connects to both switchblocks).

Than on the steering column side there's the orange airbag wire and the other wide connector. In that last connector are only 2 wires in the e36, but 4 or 5 for the e38/e39 as you can see.

This is the later style slipring with stalks attached to it:



That one of course, will not work.

You say you have a 1994 e36, which means you will have the old(est) type slipring. You will need to upgrade to a 96/97+ steering wheel to fit that slipring.

[jarda]

Thank you for the writeup, I have been searching all over the internet for the past few days and I found a lot of information - you now put it all together.

So I will be fitting the same wheel you have ('95 e38 in my case) to a '92 e36. I will want to convert the signals from the cruise control buttons to operate the -94 cruise control unit and the radio signals to a Clarion head unit with OEM steering wheel controls input jack.

The latter should be easy - just buy a converter if everything else fails. The former I have yet to figure out. Maybe I'll just swap the circuit board in the buttons for my own.

Do you know anything about the signals sent from the buttons to the MFL control unit? Are they digital or is it just a +12V line with variable resistance? This is the one piece of information I have not found anywhere. I think this will be the best place to tap - easier than decoding the i-Bus line - even if they are digital.

[vlakci]

As you can see, on the airbag side, you have the yellow airbag signal plug and the ground connector (brown wire), plus the small one for the horn (blue) + an extra wide connector for the switchblocks (4 wires).
The left MF switch is connected to the right. The right MF switch has 2x connectors (one to slipring on to left MF switch)


Than on the steering column side there's the orange airbag wire and the other wide connector. In that last connector are only 2 wires in the e36, but 5 for the e38/e39 as you can see.
E36 pin:
1. ground
6. horn

old tipe MFL (-96/9) pin:
1. to MFL decoder pin4
2. to MFL decoder pin3
3. to MFL decoder pin7
4. ilumination (gry-red)
5. not used (I put in the E36 old brown wire that is not used)
6. horn (brn-red)

new tipe (9/96 to 3/99) pin:
1. ground (brn)
2. power from fuse (key position1, 5A)
3. cruise control output
4. Ibus to radio
5. not used (if conversing from -9/96 you can put te ilumination wire not any more used)
6. horn (brn-red)



You say you have a 1994 e36, which means you will have the old(est) type slipring. You will need to upgrade to a 96/97+ steering wheel to fit that slipring.
Not only swaping the new wheel and slipring but some wires cutting because:
- the old slipring on the E36 has a diferent horn connector as newer type
- the old slipring doesn't have the ground wire (is only a 3x wire slipring)

For converting to newer type you have to remove the horn slider in the steering colum and to cut and re-wire to the 6pol conector (the on picture Mpararel put of the 7pol slipring) + adding a ground wire now missing

Here you go - you have it all. For the cruise control wiring explanation is to much wires to explain. Get a wiring diagram of an E38/E39 and do it one wire at a time. If you want to swap from original cruise control E36 to E38 cruise control (operated throw MFL) you must change the main cruise control module + remove some wires, wire some new wires (one from the MFL, 2x from the cluster for speed and RPM. On the end you will have to do some reprogarming of the module (not if you get the cruise module from a E39 with the same tipe of motor as you E36)

[MParallel]

old tipe MFL (-96/9) pin:
1. to MFL decoder pin4
2. to MFL decoder pin3
3. to MFL decoder pin7
4. ilumination (gry-red)
5. not used (I put in the E36 old brown wire that is not used)
6. horn (brn-red)

new tipe (9/96 to 3/99) pin:
1. ground (brn)
2. power from fuse (key position1, 5A)
3. cruise control output
4. Ibus to radio
5. not used (if conversing from -9/96 you can put te ilumination wire not any more used)
6. horn (brn-red)

Nice.

So the "MFL module" ->



You only need that with the old type.

From what I understand also, the old type is this:

]

And the later type is:








Unless!....BOTH are the new style! (because both have the I/O button on it).

Vlacki, in that case you emails make sense now. But what I wonder then...is what the OLD style switches look like, because I only know these 2 types.

Or is the old type the one of the 4-spoke steering wheel?

I also found a pic of the connecting wire:

[jarda]

According to the WDS for e38, the wiring for the -96 slip ring is a little bit different, but thanks.

I don't think I will be switching to the e39 cruise control module any time soon, I will rather try to make a converter.

You said: You say you have a 1994 e36, which means you will have the old(est) type slipring. You will need to upgrade to a 96/97+ steering wheel to fit that slipring.

I have a 1992 e36 (with a pre-1994 cruise control). Why do you think I need a 97+ steering wheel? I am getting a 95 wheel along with its original slip ring, shouldn't that fit (with some wire-cutting)?


I like the 4-spoke wheel more, can't help it..

[vlakci]

@mpararel:

you are mixind terms. The pictures you put:
1. wheel is a +3/99 - you can see it by how the center piece is done (there where big bolt goes on the colum - this one will not fit E36!)
2. this one is 9/97 to 3/2001. I can not tell witch year model (new/old) because i would must see the slipring or center attachment of the bolt

The diference in the switches is about the phone control!! Both wheel are +9/97!! The one whit total 8 buttons is for nonphone, the other with extra 2x buttons (one on each side) is for phone sistem. All the informations I put on is about the electrical part and not diference in the 4x spoke, 4x spoke with heating, 3x spoke M, 3x spoke M new tipe (+3/99)...

@jarda

You can put anything from when the MFL that was invented in E38/E39 models until 3/99 (if swaping all - wheel, module, MF swicthes). If you are only converting the M E36 3x spoke wheel you have to buy the M switches from E39/E38 that where in use from 9/96 to 3/2001.

You have only to be careful when buying parts because there are 3x diferent sistems per model car
the -9/96 = extra MFL module under wheel + dashboard cuise button
the 9/96 to 9/97 = dashboard cruise button
the 9/97 t0 3/99 = everything in the MF wheel

If you get to M wheel you can have the E36/E38/E39 M 3x spoke wheel until 3/99 and then put on the MF switches (M wheel has start from 9/96) witch you can use from 9/96 to 3/2001 (with the same diference in the switches happening in 9/97)

The extra wiring in pre 9/96 is only one conector with 7x wires: ground, power, ibus, cruise and 3x going on the MF wheel. With the +9/96 you have eliminated this module and the wires go directly on the MF wheel (4x wires, the ground is common with the horn ground of the E36)

with converting original E36 cruise module, you have to build a converter that will a binary sequencial code (on one line coming from the MF) transformes in a 4x wire ON/OFF switch witch will go on the module. Plus you have to find all al the double codes or redundance codes, because if two switches on MF are triggered on by another or sime time they can mix - and it's allready programed in BMW modules, that some switches has priority (the off cruise control switch is first be priority). You would have to mesaure all the codes (5x sequances) + the double codes (if two switches pressed together), analize all that, build a decoder program, output parts... Much easyer and better to put in the E38/E39 cruise modul because it only to rewire some wires and the E38/E39 module has some tricks (it's acceleration is much smother).

Unless!....BOTH are the new style! (because both have the I/O button on it).

Vlacki, in that case you emails make sense now. But what I wonder then...is what the OLD style switches look like, because I only know these 2 types.
You have 2x types of M switches (think only about the switches not the wheel!) in your case. The term "switches" is abot the left+right MF switch together. The M wheel MFL came in production in 9/96 when the decoder module was alreay eliminated and there were non need for a -9/96 switches. The firts type is from 9/96 to 9/97 and is then split in the "non phone" and "with phone" ; then is the time from 9/97 to 3/2001 where second types and were splited to "nonphone" and "with phone". In this time (in 3/99) the wheel was changed but that isn't important for is because we already have the E36 M wheel and want only to buy switches (maybe used and we must know what dates to look)

Or is the old type the one of the 4-spoke steering wheel?
no this is onyl difernet wheels, not MFL sistems

I have answered all. so If anyone doesn't get it read it twice

[MParallel]

@mpararel:

you are mixind terms. The pictures you put:
1. wheel is a +3/99 - you can see it by how the center piece is done (there where big bolt goes on the colum - this one will not fit E36!)
2. this one is 9/97 to 3/2001. I can not tell witch year model (new/old) because i would must see the slipring or center attachment of the bolt

The diference in the switches is about the phone control!! Both wheel are +9/97!! The one whit total 8 buttons is for nonphone, the other with extra 2x buttons (one on each side) is for phone sistem. All the informations I put on is about the electrical part and not diference in the 4x spoke, 4x spoke with heating, 3x spoke M, 3x spoke M new tipe (+3/99)...

...

Vlacki I know about the pics of the wheels. I was just using them as a reference to the different model switchblocks.

I'm also aware about the phone buttons on the version with 5 buttons per side. I was just wondering if BOTH type of switchblocks are of the newer type you are talking about, as both these versions have an I/O button on them. (so no dashboard switch needed).

Ha I was already wondering what that other switch was for on the 4-spoke wheel...it's for heating!

I still wonder what the switchblocks look like with only the "O" switch (where the "I" one is on the dash).

[vlakci]

Ha I was already wondering what that other switch was for on the 4-spoke wheel...it's for heating!
Or for "inside air circulation" or for "wheel heating" - this was only possible on 4x spoke wheels.

I still wonder what the switchblocks look like with only the "O" switch (where the "I" one is on the dash).
It looks like the same as the one you posted befor only that the simbol is "O" and not "I/O". In the shape there is no difference, only iside the electronics and the simbol "O" simbol

.

[MParallel]

It looks like the same as the one you posted befor only that the simbol is "O" and not "I/O". In the shape there is no difference, only iside the electronics and the simbol "O" simbol

Oh like that! Didn't realise that. Can finally sleep now.

[jarda]

So I have disassembled the 1995 4-spoke wheel buttons and found one U6050B transmitter under each side. These two transmitters are connected in master/slave mode and they transmit digital signal to the MFL unit over a single line.

Decoding this signal will definitely be much easier than manually connecting to the i-bus line, so it is what I am gonna do.

Every millisecond or so, the transmitters scan the state of all buttons and send a bitmask over the data line, so multiple buttons pushed at the same time will be just as hard to decode as single buttons - my receiver will have to work on bit level anyway.

EDIT: from what I read, it seams that the same U6050B transmitter can be used for receiving the signal and driving a relay, which would be so easy I am almost losing interest

Let me correct myself.

The U6050B is only a transmitter. The receiver and relay driver is U6052B.

What I don't get yet is why there is one more U6050B in the MFL unit and two U6052B . One receiver would make perfect sense, but why another transmitter/receiver pair in the same unit?