EDIT: PICS ADDED
I pushed the AA TS hardware a bit more. I have to hand it to Stimpee, its quality hardware, I cant say for sure if I maxed the intercooler cores out or not, I never got around to testing the pressure drop across them and my IATs are the same as the base stage 3.
I wanted to give a big thanks to Karl at AA for agreeing to remote tune this car for me. I also need to thank Mike Radowski and Donovan of Maximum PSI for excellent fabrication on the custom exhaust, flashing my DME, and dyno time. Donovan was also a huge help with the HG/head studs/and cam install. Both give high quality work for VERY reasonable prices. I also have to thank advant123 for forcing me to listen to the wrong shoulder!
This is completely OBD2 compatible set up. Pics to follow, I am waiting on pics of the exhaust work from Mike. THe dyno below is the standard AA stage 3 vs my new set up and a teaser pic.
My main goal was improving the lower RPM range to 5-6K where I mainly drive. As you can see by the dyno I have 35-55 ft lbs more torque than the average higher boost TS. Unfortunately, the current injectors in the car wont let me get anymore out of it without a totally new in house tune from AA. THe car is very hard to handle right now so I didnt see the need to pursue anymore power
I learned quite a bit during this project about these TS's. First off they need a bigger TB. I tested the inlet and found that I had a restriction that according to Kenne bell was costing me approximately 20-30 BHP. It ended up being the TB. To keep it simple I had riot racing bore me a OEM one to 70mm (about a 13% increase in flow). It worked nicely but Ideally it should be bigger. Forget all that crap about throttle response getting bad with big TB's it does apply to a draw thru TS. Infact it gets better. Hell, KB runs 140mm TB's on some of there cars. If anyone wants to know how to test for it shoot me a PM this post is already getting long.
Second, lower compression is a killer. I intially ran a .140 with like 15-17 psi and the power sucked. Even with huge amounts of timing the car just couldnt get the cylinder pressure up high enough. We settled on a .98 since it had already be proven and the car woke up.
Third. These cars love an open exhaust. When I finally ditched the stock stuff and went to the RMS headers and Maximum PSI exhaust thats when the magic really happened. The torque picked up all over, the boost got lower, and naturally I ran out of injector. You can see that my torque falls off a bit more that it should, I am still working on that, any tips would be apprieciated
Finally, I have to say all in all the Autorotor blower isnt the best choice out there for more power. I think if I were to do this again I would have went with a Wipple simply for the RPM advantage. THe autorotors redline at 13000 RPM while the whipples redline at 18000 rpm...big difference. Stimpee kept pushing me to get a whipple, but since I didnt know if the cores would really take more I didnt want to get it and waste it. Whipples smallest blower is a 2.3 which I felt maybe too big for a stock motor.. Plus I really like the cosmetics of the autorotor....gay move I know. I thought about getting the autorotor 2.2, but I find that the power/boost is much better when you spin these blowers fast, the 2.2 would have required too large of a pulley to keep the boost safe and full boost would have come on later which I didnt want.
Set up:
93 octane, OBD 2 compliant (air pump is still there also)
.98 MLS with arp 2000's angle torqued
shrick exhaust cam
Autorotor 2.0 at 14-15 psi
RMS headers, high flow cats, reasonators and magnaflows. 2.5" SS dual exhaust
70mm RR TB and larger K&N
Walbro wired to the battery/adj FPR.
The redline is 6800 RPM by my choice.
It was fun and I am almost done with it.
For the guys who like the uncorrected numbers they were 470whp/400wtq. Sorry the dynos are in speed but the rpm pick up was erratic. THe AFR's are great.
JMC
Last edited by jmc; 11-21-2008 at 09:09 PM.
Motor: Hurtig/AA custom 2.0l TS OBD2 AA tuned 444whp/384wtq SAE 470whp/400wtq STD
Exhaust RMS headers, Maximum PSI custom exhaust, magnaflow mufflers
Driveline E46 M3 6 SPEED, 2.93 LSD, Rouge SSK/tranny mounts, UUC Ultrasmooth /LTW steel flywheel. CDV delete, UUC clutch pedal bushings with GSP pedal
COOLING: Stewart WP, 78* thermostat, S54 radiator, Euro/S54 oil cooler, ES TS oil cooler adapter, M3 power steering cooler
HANDLING: MR M CAR SF reinforcement, TCK D/A CO 450/500, TCK Camber Plates, Rogue RSM, Ireland SFB, Dinan STB. CCW classics, polished lip, brushed centers. P295/30/18 P245/35/18.
THE SHOW: Stygar Z8 Nozzels, Leather Z armrest, Z8 push button start, chrome door handles, OEM FOGS, BMW Traffic Pro.
Monitoring: PLX Wideband, VDO vision boost/VAC both with custom chrome trim ring.
COMING SOON: custom intake
That's a healthy number right there.
Did you look into Kenne Bell's "H" series blowers?
They have a 2.1L which would have been an awesome fit for your need.
Nutshell:
9.0:1 JE Pauter
GT35R TT Stage II @ 13
(68' Camaro, stolen)
(93' 5.0 stolen)
(95' E36 M Euro S50B32 Swap w/ Gruppe N ECU Totaled)
Hi Everybody
Those are real nice numbers. I wonder if you revved it 7,000; how much more it would give you??
JMC -
Great post.. and results.
I'm moving to a similar set-up. Motor being rebuilt now (with ARP2000s, CP Pistons), but we're maintaining stock compression and do not plan to turn the autorotor any faster. I'm also adding RMS headers (thank you Marco!) to existing 300# cats and Supersprint cat-back. At Josh's suggestion, was already running a larger Dinan throttle body and I, too, have only the Schrick exhaust cam.
At 14-15psi, aren't you bumping up against the redline for the charger?
[EDIT: Just noticed you have a larger 2.0L Autorotor. Mine is 1.7L and may have a lower redline.]
I'm presently around 10.5-11.5 psi and expect that it will drop with the new headers. Still hoping to see a healthy increase in power.
I'm not planning to add boost until TRM is ready to drop in some 42# injectors and new OBDII tune.
Neil
Last edited by Neil; 11-20-2008 at 07:50 PM.
MDORPHN - 2011 Alpine White 1 Series M Coupe w/stuff
Congrats! That must be a really fun car!
They dont sell blowers seperate from kits.
JMC
The 2.0L blower will do 17psi barely. If you looking for staying track worthy I would look into a different blower than the 2.0, unfortunately I dont think you could fit the 2.2 Autorotor with your set up. I know it fits the AA kit though.
I think Josh is retrofitting a different blower maybe it has a better RPM range. I am close to the blower redline hence the 6800 rpm motor redline.
Last edited by jmc; 11-20-2008 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Motor: Hurtig/AA custom 2.0l TS OBD2 AA tuned 444whp/384wtq SAE 470whp/400wtq STD
Exhaust RMS headers, Maximum PSI custom exhaust, magnaflow mufflers
Driveline E46 M3 6 SPEED, 2.93 LSD, Rouge SSK/tranny mounts, UUC Ultrasmooth /LTW steel flywheel. CDV delete, UUC clutch pedal bushings with GSP pedal
COOLING: Stewart WP, 78* thermostat, S54 radiator, Euro/S54 oil cooler, ES TS oil cooler adapter, M3 power steering cooler
HANDLING: MR M CAR SF reinforcement, TCK D/A CO 450/500, TCK Camber Plates, Rogue RSM, Ireland SFB, Dinan STB. CCW classics, polished lip, brushed centers. P295/30/18 P245/35/18.
THE SHOW: Stygar Z8 Nozzels, Leather Z armrest, Z8 push button start, chrome door handles, OEM FOGS, BMW Traffic Pro.
Monitoring: PLX Wideband, VDO vision boost/VAC both with custom chrome trim ring.
COMING SOON: custom intake
OT, BUT why doesn't AA offer their TS anymore??
ESS struck a deal with lysholm/autorotor making the blower too expensive and hard to get.
jmc
Motor: Hurtig/AA custom 2.0l TS OBD2 AA tuned 444whp/384wtq SAE 470whp/400wtq STD
Exhaust RMS headers, Maximum PSI custom exhaust, magnaflow mufflers
Driveline E46 M3 6 SPEED, 2.93 LSD, Rouge SSK/tranny mounts, UUC Ultrasmooth /LTW steel flywheel. CDV delete, UUC clutch pedal bushings with GSP pedal
COOLING: Stewart WP, 78* thermostat, S54 radiator, Euro/S54 oil cooler, ES TS oil cooler adapter, M3 power steering cooler
HANDLING: MR M CAR SF reinforcement, TCK D/A CO 450/500, TCK Camber Plates, Rogue RSM, Ireland SFB, Dinan STB. CCW classics, polished lip, brushed centers. P295/30/18 P245/35/18.
THE SHOW: Stygar Z8 Nozzels, Leather Z armrest, Z8 push button start, chrome door handles, OEM FOGS, BMW Traffic Pro.
Monitoring: PLX Wideband, VDO vision boost/VAC both with custom chrome trim ring.
COMING SOON: custom intake
Congrats jmc! The suspense was killing me. I guess I need to save up for a larger throttle body (and new tune)?
Did you manage to "quiet" it down at all?
Last edited by WK446; 11-20-2008 at 08:38 PM.
97 ///M3 Turbo Saloon
VEHICLE: TRM Tuning Turbo System | Built Engine | SwainTech coatings | Custom 3.5" exhaust | Cryo Treated 210mm 3.15 Diff w/40% lock-up | 420G 6-speed transmission | UUC Twin Disc clutch | AMS-500 | AST Suspension | AP Racing | Racelogic TC | Dr. Vanos | Riot Racing BBTB | Vorshlag | UUC | AA | JT Design | Recaro | SPA Technique | VDO | Raid | Turner | Castillo Design FXR Retrofits | Zionsville Autosport | Stewart Components | Motion Motorsport underpanel | Z3 steering rack retrofit | Billet throttle body bushings
SOUND: Pioneer DEX-P99RS | Dynaudio | Morel | Image Dynamics | Arc Audio | JL Audio | Audio Control
OTHER: AEM Wideband Failsafe gauge | Ecliptech | Escort 9500Ci | LI | Hüper Optik | Llumar Air Blue | Skene Design
PHOTOS: Engine Bay: Click
Man I bet thats an awesome ride. I know what my whipple feels like in my Denali and I can only imagine what it would be like in a car with a couple thousand less pounds and rwd. That thing must really be a blast to drive.
Motor: Hurtig/AA custom 2.0l TS OBD2 AA tuned 444whp/384wtq SAE 470whp/400wtq STD
Exhaust RMS headers, Maximum PSI custom exhaust, magnaflow mufflers
Driveline E46 M3 6 SPEED, 2.93 LSD, Rouge SSK/tranny mounts, UUC Ultrasmooth /LTW steel flywheel. CDV delete, UUC clutch pedal bushings with GSP pedal
COOLING: Stewart WP, 78* thermostat, S54 radiator, Euro/S54 oil cooler, ES TS oil cooler adapter, M3 power steering cooler
HANDLING: MR M CAR SF reinforcement, TCK D/A CO 450/500, TCK Camber Plates, Rogue RSM, Ireland SFB, Dinan STB. CCW classics, polished lip, brushed centers. P295/30/18 P245/35/18.
THE SHOW: Stygar Z8 Nozzels, Leather Z armrest, Z8 push button start, chrome door handles, OEM FOGS, BMW Traffic Pro.
Monitoring: PLX Wideband, VDO vision boost/VAC both with custom chrome trim ring.
COMING SOON: custom intake
congrats and nice numbers. did the 2.0L autorotor just bolt up? how did spacing work out with the supercharger snout bracket? it looks like you swapped the snout so i guess the spacing would be the same? which pulley size did you use for the 2.0L twinscrew? did you have to change your belt size?
The 2.0 and 2.2 autorotors should bolt right up, with some replumbing at the back of the inlet housing for the bypass, etc due to the length.
The 2.3 whipple would bolt right up as well, however the snout diameter is a tad smaller, so it would require a modification to the snout bracket to support it.
Nice work Joe!
Sorry I couldn't take your call earlier, I was in the middle of a cub scout meeting with the boy! We will catch up soon, since I need a ride!
Have you been Screwed?
Last edited by jmc; 11-20-2008 at 09:48 PM.
Motor: Hurtig/AA custom 2.0l TS OBD2 AA tuned 444whp/384wtq SAE 470whp/400wtq STD
Exhaust RMS headers, Maximum PSI custom exhaust, magnaflow mufflers
Driveline E46 M3 6 SPEED, 2.93 LSD, Rouge SSK/tranny mounts, UUC Ultrasmooth /LTW steel flywheel. CDV delete, UUC clutch pedal bushings with GSP pedal
COOLING: Stewart WP, 78* thermostat, S54 radiator, Euro/S54 oil cooler, ES TS oil cooler adapter, M3 power steering cooler
HANDLING: MR M CAR SF reinforcement, TCK D/A CO 450/500, TCK Camber Plates, Rogue RSM, Ireland SFB, Dinan STB. CCW classics, polished lip, brushed centers. P295/30/18 P245/35/18.
THE SHOW: Stygar Z8 Nozzels, Leather Z armrest, Z8 push button start, chrome door handles, OEM FOGS, BMW Traffic Pro.
Monitoring: PLX Wideband, VDO vision boost/VAC both with custom chrome trim ring.
COMING SOON: custom intake
JMC - those are awesome numbers man. I am happy for you. I knew you had something in the works, but I didn't know it went to this extent. I love seeing people pushing their setups and coming out with great results.
Have fun with it!
I have one with only a few hundred miles on it sitting on a shelf in my garage just waiting for a project!
I think the hardware with the 2.3L blower would still be able to support 475-500 whp on the S52 with the perfect setup. It would certainly be pushing the limits of flow of the intercooler, but I think it would work.
Maybe someday I will buy an E34 touring and stick an S52 and a 6 speed into it and build a 500whp TS setup...
Then I would be almost as cool as Joe!
Have you been Screwed?
Motor: Hurtig/AA custom 2.0l TS OBD2 AA tuned 444whp/384wtq SAE 470whp/400wtq STD
Exhaust RMS headers, Maximum PSI custom exhaust, magnaflow mufflers
Driveline E46 M3 6 SPEED, 2.93 LSD, Rouge SSK/tranny mounts, UUC Ultrasmooth /LTW steel flywheel. CDV delete, UUC clutch pedal bushings with GSP pedal
COOLING: Stewart WP, 78* thermostat, S54 radiator, Euro/S54 oil cooler, ES TS oil cooler adapter, M3 power steering cooler
HANDLING: MR M CAR SF reinforcement, TCK D/A CO 450/500, TCK Camber Plates, Rogue RSM, Ireland SFB, Dinan STB. CCW classics, polished lip, brushed centers. P295/30/18 P245/35/18.
THE SHOW: Stygar Z8 Nozzels, Leather Z armrest, Z8 push button start, chrome door handles, OEM FOGS, BMW Traffic Pro.
Monitoring: PLX Wideband, VDO vision boost/VAC both with custom chrome trim ring.
COMING SOON: custom intake
Great Job!!
Excellent numbers!! Great job!!
Don
Hi everyone. I live right down the street from JMC and have had the privilege of driving this monster, and let me tell you, its absolutely awesome. Just a few weeks ago he told me to punch it from a 3rd gear 3,000 RPM roll and the car got sideways! The instantaneous torque this thing makes is awesome. The best part about this setup isn't really the awesome power, but how the car feels while driving it. It is ultra-smooth, with no check engine lights or any kind of engine problems. It truly drives like a 100% OEM car. Being a previous turbo M3 owner, I can tell you that this is not an easy task to achieve!
Big congrats to JMC/Stimpee/AA/Maximum PSI for building an awesome street car.
1997 M3
1999 Z3 M Coupe - Turbocharged
JMC, I have the exhaust pictures PM ME your email and I can send them over unless you would like me to just post them.
One of my favorite cars! Love the sound of it! Get some bigger rubber in the rear too.
85' Turbo M50 E30 | 95' M3 Nitrous, Coilovers, DJ Autos, UUC SSK
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