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Thread: PICS!!!! O-ring block - avoid head gasket failure w/ BIG BOOST

  1. #26
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    pyramids

  2. #27
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    With O'ring head or block (or both) you would use stock, otherwise I don't know how could clamp/seal with copper or MLS type.

    O'ringing the block it's suggested, however doing it well, the head can be done and shouldn't cause problem, although, would be more difficult to center ring or make the groove to have a good seal.

    here is mine if someone want's to check out.

    Link Here
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  3. #28
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    I don't have any pics of a reciever groove but it is just a groove in the head above the O-ring. It lets the o-ring push the gasket into the groove forming a dam of sorts. ///J.T.///
    Lot's of new stuff hope it stays together a little longer. LOL

  4. #29
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    Tom what type of setup did you use? Details sir!

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by diegom6 View Post
    With O'ring head or block (or both) you would use stock, otherwise I don't know how could clamp/seal with copper or MLS type.

    O'ringing the block it's suggested, however doing it well, the head can be done and shouldn't cause problem, although, would be more difficult to center ring or make the groove to have a good seal.

    here is mine if someone want's to check out.

    Link Here
    Actually copper is soft enough to deform around the o-ring, MLS is tooo hard and will not compress at the o-ring thus holding the head off the gasket around the water passages. ///J.T.///
    Lot's of new stuff hope it stays together a little longer. LOL

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by diegom6 View Post
    With O'ring head or block (or both) you would use stock, otherwise I don't know how could clamp/seal with copper or MLS type.

    O'ringing the block it's suggested, however doing it well, the head can be done and shouldn't cause problem, although, would be more difficult to center ring or make the groove to have a good seal.

    here is mine if someone want's to check out.

    Link Here
    Thank you!
    Quote Originally Posted by got psi View Post
    Actually copper is soft enough to deform around the o-ring, MLS is tooo hard and will not compress at the o-ring thus holding the head off the gasket around the water passages. ///J.T.///
    Thank you guys a ton! My head isn't on yet so I have time. I need to see a man about a copper or stock headgasket. What should I do? I have 85mm bore?
    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

  7. #32
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    Cameron, stock gasket. Coppers are for race use, eg you have to change them out. This is just hearsay on my behalf, let JT/others chime in. (BTW, are you going with S52 cams or Evosports?)

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiGmA View Post
    Cameron, stock gasket. Coppers are for race use, eg you have to change them out. This is just hearsay on my behalf, let JT/others chime in. (BTW, are you going with S52 cams or Evosports?)
    That is what I have always been told. Thanks. Stocker then.

    S52 cams. I want to test out the difference between the horrible m50 cams and the s52 cams first. It might make enough power and mid-range will still be nice. With the large cams I will have even more lag because they will move the power band to the right. I know people have made over 800whp with s52 cams. Plus the Evosport cams are expensive and I need to save every dime I can for my family right now.
    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiGmA View Post
    Tom what type of setup did you use? Details sir!
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=845003

  10. #35
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    Copper is more of a race thing. MLS and or stock style is for street setups. ///J.T.///
    Lot's of new stuff hope it stays together a little longer. LOL

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleg Coupe View Post
    For all of our BMW turbo engines we make, we use pyramid rings. All our DSM/EVO engines use O-Ringed blocks from AMS. For me, pyramid is MUCH more stronger solution for high boost applications. But O-Ringed 4G63 blocks holds 30-40psi for years, so it works fine too.

    BTW, great O-Rings pics!
    The guy that built my motor and a few other of the chicago guys motors, is the same guy that builds all of AMS' motors.

    my motor is
    Custom CP's 84.5mm, 9.0:1CR, HD wrist pins, thicker ring lands.
    Arrow rods
    oversized head studs
    S52 crank
    pyramid rings
    oversize valves, dual springs, ti retainers, re ground cams
    ///Andres
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by got psi View Post
    Actually copper is soft enough to deform around the o-ring, MLS is tooo hard and will not compress at the o-ring thus holding the head off the gasket around the water passages. ///J.T.///
    Head is not on so going to changing to stock head gasket. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Concentric190 View Post
    The guy that built my motor and a few other of the chicago guys motors, is the same guy that builds all of AMS' motors.

    my motor is
    Custom CP's 84.5mm, 9.0:1CR, HD wrist pins, thicker ring lands.
    Arrow rods
    oversized head studs
    S52 crank
    pyramid rings
    oversize valves, dual springs, ti retainers, re ground cams
    That is going to be one hell of a engine! Can't wait to see the results!
    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

  13. #38
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    the rings i ordered were whatever JE had specified for heavy boost. when gapping them, they were noticably harder to gap on the grinder than most rings.
    This space for rent.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigugly View Post
    the rings i ordered were whatever JE had specified for heavy boost. when gapping them, they were noticably harder to gap on the grinder than most rings.
    Oh when you said rings I thought you meant pyramid or o-rings.
    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by highboostingm3 View Post
    Thank you!

    Thank you guys a ton! My head isn't on yet so I have time. I need to see a man about a copper or stock headgasket. What should I do? I have 85mm bore?
    Don't do copper Cam, you will hate how it leaks.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 View Post
    Don't do copper Cam, you will hate how it leaks.
    I will be doing stock. Thanks bud.
    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by highboostingm3 View Post
    The "Frankenstein Motor" is getting to be much more popular these days as guys have experienced head gasket issues with 500+whp.

    This combination usually consists of:
    1) 84-85mm bore block (m52 typically).
    2) s52 crank.
    3) 135mm forged rods.
    4) 8.2:1-9.0:1CR forged pistons (Mike Radowski has the proper beefy ones on the shelf ready to go for 84.5mm! )
    5) s52 cams.
    6) TRM ARP 10mm studs or larger.
    7) stock HG (copper works for race engines).
    8) o-ringing block.

    A rather nice combination making up to 3.05 liters, yet keeping that girth between cylinders. I added #8 there because it is nice added insurance.

    I have read that a lot of people aren't sure exactly what o-ringing consists of. It is very simple really. The block is machined to house wire around the cylinders that will pinch the head gasket and help keep pressure from escaping the combustion area. The added cost to machine is not much but the added insurance is huge.

    You can see why you can't go too big on the bore. 85.5mm bore might work. 86mm not sure. Below is 85mm on an m52 block. This is a much easier direction than going with pyramid rings.

    Here you go:



    wow cam! thanks for answering Qs that I was afraid to ask!!

  18. #43
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    I've never heard of using a stock/composite gasket on an o-ringed block. Anyone else ever heard that? I o-ringed my Nissan block 5-6 years ago and it failed with a stock gasket. I was told it would only be reliable with a copper gasket; thus needing maitenance/changing pretty often, ie race car.

    I hope it works out for you though.

    07 335i || Active Autowerke FMIC, Exhaust, DPs, BOV, Meth || DCI || JB4 || H&R || 19" M

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by slopokdave View Post
    I've never heard of using a stock/composite gasket on an o-ringed block. Anyone else ever heard that? I o-ringed my Nissan block 5-6 years ago and it failed with a stock gasket. I was told it would only be reliable with a copper gasket; thus needing maitenance/changing pretty often, ie race car.

    I hope it works out for you though.
    Wow. Getting conflicting opinons here.
    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DADx2 View Post
    Nice pics Cam. I am beginning to think that I may have made a major boo-boo by going with my 87mm bore on my S52. I am just praying that I make decent power on low boost, cause I am worrying that an 87mm bore, Cometic MLS, and big PSI will cause trouble.
    I am running an 87mm bore also with an MLS. No issues so far at 15psi
    That over bore is neither here nor there...it is how close the dang cyls were to begin with that might be a problem so don't feel guilty

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by slopokdave View Post
    I've never heard of using a stock/composite gasket on an o-ringed block. Anyone else ever heard that? I o-ringed my Nissan block 5-6 years ago and it failed with a stock gasket. I was told it would only be reliable with a copper gasket; thus needing maitenance/changing pretty often, ie race car.

    I hope it works out for you though.
    Quote Originally Posted by highboostingm3 View Post
    Wow. Getting conflicting opinons here.

    You can not run stock gasket.The ring is made to bite/compress in to the copper.You can run copper on the street.It just takes a little more prep
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  22. #47
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    FWIW - I have researched copper extensively and can provide multiple links to experienced shops that can manufacture a copper gasket for any application if they do not already have a template on file.

    EACH of these suppliers has cautioned against using CU on a street car. These gaskets are strongly recommended only for use in race machines that are frequently disassembled.

    I understand that there may be a few builders who have used Dirco or Hylomar to achieve a good coolant and oil passage seal, but everyone has discouraged me from pursuing copper for the street.

    Although I have not o-ringed my block yet, I have read that you shouldn't need to ring both the block and head. A receiver groove can be used but is not always necessary, depends how far you have the rings protruding from the deck of the block.

    I have never heard of anyone o-ringing with MLS and I agree that it is doubtful you will deform the steel as intended.

    I think that the originator will be very happy with this design provided the AFRs and ignition are handled properly. As suggested in relation to Pyramid rings, the head gasket may no longer provide an inexpensive relief. Although inconvenient and annoying to repair frequently, a blown HG is far less expensive than bent rods and broken pistons.

    What are boost seeking motorheads supposed to do?

  23. #48
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    Extend coolant and oil passages with like, pipe or something idk, and machine head to receive said 'pipes' then weld head to block. Done and done

  24. #49
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    They discourage copper on the street to prvent headaches,but it is done alot.

    MlS can be used with o-ring the ring will have to be copper so it deforms/compress to the MLS this is done to create more clamp load around the cylinder.

    I know there is a company that makes a copper gasket with a special bonded rubber coating on it to prevent leaks for the BMW
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by highboostingm3 View Post
    Wow. Getting conflicting opinons here.
    What gasket did you have w/ original o-ringing??
    Did it not work?

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