DIY: Touring headliner and roof rails removal

[attack eagle]

Was bored and about the time I finally was nodding off, my 20 month old woke up alert and refreshed... so we decided to take the headliner out and remove the roof rails (and change the bulbs in the foglights, had to rescue my wife from a flash flood a couple of blocks away on Monday and water got in while the lights were underwater and popped a bulb).

Thanks to croatan for the inspiration... I have been thinking about how he removed his and filled the holes with the plugs for months now.


I'll take pictures once the sun is up so everyone interested in the sunroof removal (discussed elsewhere) can see what they are going to need in terms of a plug (man that thing is really wide) as well as those wanting to remove the roof rails.

Will not be recovering the headliner at this time (no money!), nor welding them shut so I cna refit the rails if I ever want to.

But it will give me a chance to:
1: work on the leak above my head in heavy heavy rain. Possibly a plugged drain or loose drain.

2: give the water somewhere to go when stopped instead of puddling next to the seal.

3: do a better job of lubing the cartridge.

4: make the car look INCHES lower... much cleaner... and more 'Euro'.
It also makes the Dual sunroof really stand out when open.


Tools:

good phillips head screwdriver

good flat head for removing screw covers on grab bars

13mm socket, extension, driver

Torx for removing the visors if removing the front section... but not needed to remove rails

Open the front roof or rear so you can pull the rubber trim from the opening.

1: remove the side pieces

Remove the screw covers by sliding a flat head under one CORNER of the screw covers and twisting.







Remove the screws and remove the grab handles front and rear.

Remove the screw from the cargo net holder (if equipped)

Pull the light out.

Pull the door seals down and grab the side panels (b pillar and C pilla)r and pull them inboard to free them from the sidepanel, or use the screwdriver to pry them. (don't have to be fully removed)


remove sidepieces, and don;t lose the little white grab handle pins!

(on reinstall you put the handles on the panels FIRST with the white pins.




2: remove rear section.

remove the midrange speaker grills by pulling down from the front, then working the sidetabs loose.

Remove cargo light.

remove rear cargo net holders by removing phillips

Work rear panel out from rear seal.

Pull sharply down in middle to free clip, then work panel free from sides.

(no pics yet... do you really need them?)


Unbolting rails:

3: there are 4 13mm bolts per side, the front 3 are covered by little black plastic round (not square) covers, the rear most is in the same hole as the rear sunroof drain. It IS NOT the 17mm gold bolt... that has a ball socket and is probably the other end of the glass strut... learn from my mistake.







4: Lift off rail, keep the plastic grommets in case you ever wish to reinstall them.


Bored and going to take off other side as soon as the sun is a bit higher.


EDIT: And just rubbing it in... mine are in perfect condition except for some flaking inside the rear groove. Externally they are cherry with supple strips. Just polished them last weekend.


EDIT 2: got both sides off, drivers side paint was in very good shape, about good enough to just polish and leave as is... passengers was not so good... So it looks like the rails will be going back on until I can budget for a roof respray (needed anyway... at some point a PPO taped up the front of the sunroof and the paint is slightly darker).

I have to say it looks so much better, and (believe it or not) the sunroof is seems FAR less turbulent when open.


Anyway I'm going to nap now and work on the front headliner later so I can get to the sunroof drains.

This is FAR easier and FAR less intimidating than I had expected it to be.

E34s - come apart and go together like legos for big boys.


Dirty car, it's been raining every day this week.











Cheers!!!


Lemme KNow what you guys want pictures of while it is apart and I'll shoot it!

[attack eagle]

Rremoving the sunroof panels...

retract front section fully

reach inside the front edge and find the spring steel straps that are pushing down on the roof, push them up with your finger and pull the sunroof liner closed.

Lift out the set of front retainers which are aligned when the liner is fully closed.

Pull forward to the next set of latches, repeat until the front section is off.



rear:

fully close roof so the rear panel raises up and the inner panel drops for maximum room.

same spingsteel latches, but reversed, so push down. As I started to pull it forward it came down on its own so I never had to fight with it. I'm betting it goes out the back or out the front though


god I love this car... what other 17 year old can you get stripped this easy?

[Elekta]

lets see the rails. did your headliner need replacing? If no, do you think it will go back in good as new? How much time to remove? Degree of difficulty?

I desperately need to respray my rails after getting them peeled down to the white plexiglass. Do you think it's all the twisting from having the double roof that makes them delaminate? What kind of paint would you use. I'm thinking of repainting them diamont schwarz metallic like the skirts, and I was going to paint my third brake light piece the same color.

Also, I have hail damage on my panels. would you remove them and tap them out from the inside? Is that possible? What does a separated panel look like? I know they'd respray a lot better if they were removed..

pics:
headliner pieces out of the car.
ceiling with no headliner
roof rail bolts in the ceiling (I guess you did that, but with markings on them.)
roof rails
panels removed
spring latches you were talking about
underside of panels

( I guess you could really detail the put-back with photos and then the story could be told from either end of the job)

wave that flag

[attack eagle]

Front is easy. T20 torx to remove the visors. Used my pliers to undo the electrical connections.

removed main light and sunroof switch panel.


Pull out the a-pillars at the top to release the front panel.

[attack eagle]

Originally Posted by Elekta

lets see the rails. did your headliner need replacing? If no, do you think it will go back in good as new? How much time to remove? Degree of difficulty?

Headliner does need recovering.
Will it go back in as good as it was? You bet. this is easy.

Time to remove headliner

side pieces, 10 minutes each

rear section 10 minutes

front section 15-20 minutes

inner panels (once I figured it out!) about 5 minutes each.

5 out of 10 wrenches. not much harder ( and maybe easier) than taking out spark plugs.

Originally Posted by Elekta

I desperately need to respray my rails after getting them peeled down to the white plexiglass. Do you think it's all the twisting from having the double roof that makes them delaminate? What kind of paint would you use. I'm thinking of repainting them diamont schwarz metallic like the skirts, and I was going to paint my third brake light piece the same color.

I would guess that it is from solar damage, heat damage, or something similar. I really have no idea since mine are only flaking inside from the aluminum inner rail. definitely something with a flex agent added.

Originally Posted by Elekta

Also, I have hail damage on my panels. would you remove them and tap them out from the inside? Is that possible? What does a separated panel look like? I know they'd respray a lot better if they were removed...

there is a big sound insulating pad glued to the inside of the roof skin. my front one is gone though, so I'll go out and look again after the boys and I finish playing with our 4th of July poppers and see if it is a single skin panel. if so... yes you could dolly them right on the car. I'm not going to take my outer panels completely out but I'll look and see if they seem easily detachable.

Originally Posted by Elekta

pics:
headliner pieces out of the car.
ceiling with no headliner
roof rail bolts in the ceiling (I guess you did that, but with markings on them.)
roof rails
panels removed
spring latches you were talking about
underside of panels

( I guess you could really detail the put-back with photos and then the story could be told from either end of the job)

wave that flag

will do, though I will probably have to wait until tomorrow to do it.

[525fourthew1n]

GOOOOODDDDDD I want to do this. What is involved in getting the headliner out? I happen to love and enjoyed playing with Legos all my life, so I'm fine with dis-assembling the other parts underneath the headliner, I'm just timid because I had the headliner replaced to the tune of $650 dollars recently....

So you said you're not going to recover the headliner at the moment which is fine, are you just leaving the roof as is then?

Again, you did great work and excellent write-up. Before I overhaul the Touring's body and paint I KNOW I will be doing this.

Great work!

[attack eagle]

nah I'm going to stick it back up later. just wanted to do it to learn and show how to do it.

it's basically 1-2 pop clips, and the screws for the trim bits, and the pillar covers that locate it. very easy to remove all those.

more pics tomorrow when there is light as per Geoffs request.

I do NOT have anyway to highlight or circle (no ms paint etc on the mac) the parts so I will attempt to use my handy dandy screwdriver pointer. Or my son.

[Elekta]

get your son to draw some arrows on a sticky, and just put them in the shot.

thanks again for this. at $80+ an hour these days. I would prefer to bring my tourer to the painter with the rails removed and maybe even the panels separated so that they can be repaired and resprayed to the highest level.

I need a new windshield and one of those plastic rain/trim pieces around it, and I have to replace my third brake light assembly which the indy chickened out to unscrew the two screws holding it to the hatch glass. I also have to have the tint r&r'd from the glass, so I may do all of this at once. I have so little time for this, but neither can I afford to pay top dollar for these aesthetic only improvements.

What I'd really love is if an indy would come to my house for beer and half wages to remove all these bits....the glass the cassette in pieces and also the headliner. Then I can have the windshield removed up at the painters and a real spray around the roof and glass openings can be achieved...and the pesky hail dents gone from the panels. Then they can be sprayed individually on a table

I must be dreaming about this, but I have only $1600 from allstate, and that would all be chewed up in r&r hours, and not in real paint prep and paint and clear coat.

thanks again, and hopefully your dog wasn't as freaked as mine was last night.....good soaking rain = many fire works after hours-basically all night in the city.

[attack eagle]

just took a lot more pics geoff.



Rails:







closer:





inner trim panels.
rear: mounting rear. slider block on rear




fits onto these pins on the sunroof rear panel





front panels sliders



sunroof drain:


sunroof brain and rear motor




front motor

[attack eagle]

spacer







and it looks like you just might be able to undo the outer skins from the inner frames... darth vader will show you.







roof rail nut covers



Location of Tabs

[Mr Project]

Looking good! Thanks, AE, I need to pull mine apart this year to paint the roof (maybe the whole car) and do the headliner. If only I hadn't loaned the car to my dad while I'm doing the headgasket on his E32....

[attack eagle]

Rails appear to be plastic/ composite. Not fiberglass. look injection molded.








contacts for visors:







many more pictures @
http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oof/?start=all

[attack eagle]

ANYTHING ELSE YOU GUYS NEED PICTURES OF BEFORE I put it back together?

[Elekta]

yeah, I need more wide shots of the panels. think like Hitchcock in NXNW. Big wide shot master, mid shot, two shot, reverse, close up...anyone to shoot you assembling? So we can see how they came out or went in? Any big wide shot of the naked ceiling that you could take and then you could mspaint all sorts of arrows all on the same pic. I should send you my fish eye.

those rubber gaskets on the rails look like warm soap and water would make like new.

thanks again...this is entirely motivating.

[attack eagle]

yeah sorry, I'm already using 18mm focal length.
that isthe problem witha black car... and el paso weather. Without clouds it is impossible to shoot outside and inside you are too close to see the thing.

need a camcorder, but I dont have one.

[jone34t]

So whale on this topic has anyone figured out how to get rid of the squeaky sunroofs. I know if you put pressure on the sunroof it will then temp quite it down????

[attack eagle]

Stop the car from twisting so much with a rear brace a la Mr. Project.

clean the felt and seals.

[upallnight]

Did you replace the Glass Struts?

[attack eagle]

nope.

[CAPEBOY]

Thanks AE,

I think I have to tackle removing my headliner soon, I had a small incident with 6 bags of mulch and the headliner... oops!

[attack eagle]

ok, I put the rails back on.

And I reinstalled rear and front section of the head liner.

REAR:

pull the d pillars out a bit, lift rear panel into place and slip one corner under the d pillar, and then bend it slightly to get the other side in.

Yes it will be floppy... don;t worry. Grab the speaker covers and put those back in.

Remember they only go on one way. there are 3 tabs on one side and those go in the back.

Those will hold the rear up while you work the trim rubber (around the 1/4 windows) back over the panels. Once that is in, then press the single clip (see darth vader) into place. Install the rear set of cargo net mounts if so equipped.


Front.
real pita. Pull your A pillar out and lidethe panel behind it.
Hold panel into place while you reach up and fish the wires for the visor and visor clips down thru the holes. Clip the makeup light harnesses back in.

While pressing the headliner up with one hand, grab your t20 and screw and try to get one of the sunvisor clips on, or one of the visors. Once you get one of the screws started, work on the other unit on the same side. Once you have one side on the headliner is aligned and the other side is easier. No clips on this one.



Side panels. Install handles on the sidepanels with the white retaining pins. Rear grab handle has a coat hanger built in. Front does not.

PLace them up against the roof and while holding them firmly in place, open handle and screw the handles in.

Sorry guys but there is no way to shoot pictures of them going back in. amybe next time after they are recovered.

I'll try to take pictures of the side panels with the handles preinstalled before I put them in tomorrow. It is raining and dark.


INstall rear sunroof panel by lining up the 4 mounting blocks with the pins (while roof is closed) and pushing back to latch into place.

Install Front panel by sliding front roof wode open, and slipping the panel (it is plastic and flexible)'s tabs thru the sunroof rail opening (picture tomorrow), sliding back to the next one, repeat until it is all the way in.

Reinstall the sunroof gasket/trim rubber around the opening

Reinstall the door seal around the 4 doors.

[540Greg]

Great write-up and pics. The insulation on my front panel was coming off and getting bunched up. I'm going to remove it and use dynamat to insulate the panel.

Greg

[attack eagle]

FIxed my sunroof drain finally.

left one wasn;t draining. useda spool of solder to run thru the working one until it bottomed out (no they don;t come out the bottom of the car, they drain into the rocker, and use the rocker's drain) and marked it, then measured that the left one stopped about 3 inches shorter.

that told me the stoppage was in the last 3 inches.

removed the kickpanel
reached behind the second grey backing (not the carpet piece, the OTHER grey one that is semi-glued down) and found the drain and pulled it out.

full of mud/slime/crap.
used an opened clothes hanger (twisty end) as a snake/auger to pull the stuff out, rinsed it out by pouring water in the drain,repeat until clean and clear, and then pushed it back in ( it goes behind the innermost skin (you'll feel it, smaller opening) ) and ran more water thru it to help clean the rocker out.

Also pulled the wing/fender lower screws out and pulled it out enough to clean the mud buildup behind them. Doesn;t drain there but I figured (correctly) that there would be a lot of build up on that side to.


leakage when nose down and raining or in acar wash, or when getting splashed on roof in deep water... now fixed. Also Now the sunroof material won't come unglued when I finally redo it. and I won't have a ton of water pouring on me out of the blue & randomly in the rain.

[attack eagle]

also jsut found this and wanted to include it

http://www.e38.org/e34/touring_sun_roof.pdf