6/21/08 - GT3RS Smashes into me

[Dinanify]

I was over at Thunderhill this last weekend running with NCRC. Second session of the day, had one of the ARC guys Ted (drives a black/green Forumla car) checking me out to race with ARC. Things were going well, but then a litle after turn 8 (CCW), when checking my guages, I noticed my Oil pressure gauge reading zero.
Thinking back, this was likely just a wire that had become disconnected. I have a second sending unit with a warning light, and I don't think it was illuminated.

But in short, it threw my concentration enough so that I was late on turn-in for 9 just a bit, and may have lifted as well, my memory of the spin isn't great, but in any event, onto the details.

I ended up around 75% up the hill of 9 on the side I started on, well visible to any oncoming traffic, pointed toward them, with about 3/4 of my car off the track (back end, I had let it roll to try to get out of the way).

I hadn't remembered to clutch in, so the car was off.

Talking to an acquaintance of mine, Clive Wu/white mini/ARC racer, who I'd passed back at turn 5-6, he said that when he came through just a bit after me, he looked up at the flag station for 9 like he always does, saw it waving yellow, and while looking at it, saw my car since it wasn't too too far from there (a bit toward the side of the hill he was coming from), slowed his turn in for 9 and very easily avoided me. By the time he got to 14, he saw a frantically waving red flag and stopped.

Several seconds after Clive came by me, a white Porsche 911 (GT3?) came through which wasn't observing the yellow flag, but still easily avoided me under speed. However, the car who was chasing him, an orange Porsche GT3RS didn't check the flag station before turn-in, and was under full speed when entering turn 9, and realized much too late (even though I was visible and under a yellow flag) that there was a car on the outside of 9. toward the top of the hill on the side he was driving up. I saw him at the last second try to do something to avoid. I'm not sure if he lifted and turned or other, but the result of him not paying attention to the environment in front of him, is that he slammed into me mostly straight on, with a slight tendancy to his left (also observable by the direction my bumper ended up bent in after the incident)



After the track was stopped, I got out of the car, felt fine at the time. The only communication I got from the driver of the porsche Gt3rs, Scott Mercer, all day was the one the following:

"Are you alright?"

followed shortly by a

"You're lucky you weren't further over that hill"

(sigh, not exactly the way I would have responded)

That was around 10am on Saturday, june 21st. Saturday night around 730pm, as I was walking back from casa ramos (local food joint), Stuart and I were outside looking at the car and talking and just before we came in, my lower back went into horrible spasm and piercing pain. Since then, I've only been able to stand for a few minutes, and even less if I try to walk as well.

I went into urgent care on Sunday evening after we got back into town (san jose). The xray looks okay, but the doctor was very concerned that when she did the knee reflex test (me fully seated upright), that my rightt knee was showing little to no reflex. She had me ambulanced over to the ER where they continued to look at me. They did the same test at one point, but with my laying down, no pressure on the back, both knees showed regular reflexes. I think at this point, the ER docors became less interested in my case, and decided to give me a shot for the pain, some prescriptions, and send me on my way.

They told me to go back to my primary care doctor to get setup for an MRI (which I did on Monday the 23rd. Meanwhile, I'm on my back, in bed, taking bits of Ibuprofen, vicodin, and valium.

So, to those that think "I don't need a cage if I'm not pushing that hard, nor a Hans Device"....think again (I had all of those). The engine in my car is pushed back, and it appears very much like the only thing that stopped it from being pushed into the cabin is the cage bits that were in front of me in the dash.

Safety first, and a very public thank you to Tony at TCDesign for having built me a safe cage (probably saved my life).

Thank you again, Tony.

[MCain]

Wow. Glad you're ok.

There's no excuse for that happening. Sucks that you paid the price for someone else's mistake.

[sisomphonE]

wow.. glad you're here to tell us the story. best of luck to you.

[vinnymac]

Wow. That looks like one heck of a hard impact. It also looks like the car did it's job and I'm glad to hear you are OK. It's a shame something like this happens because of another driver's inattention.

Good luck with your injuries. Get that MRI and make sure you do not have any lasting spine or nerve damage. Those types of things do not often heal on their own and could become chronic if you do not get proper treatment now.

How bad was the damage to the other car?

[MdE36]

luckly you're ok. Sucks about the car tho.

[Dinanify]

Thanks for the kind wishes.

Hey Vinny,
Yeah, it felt pretty hard, but I could sense the impact being absorbed by the cage (craziness).

The GT3RS had some pretty heafty front end damage, and some scrapes down the side, but I didin't get a good look at it afterward.

They towed his car in during lunch, and after he had it on the trailer, he covered it up while he trailered the car through the paddock (sigh).

Good advice about the back, I've been laying flat since I got back, tryin to give it time to rest/heal, loading myself with either pain pills and now Ibuprofen to bring down any swelling.

[JonathanL]

Originally Posted by MCain

Wow. Glad you're ok.

There's no excuse for that happening. Sucks that you paid the price for someone else's mistake.

+1.

That really sucks, but glad you're okay.

[TIATO]

Ben,

First off, glad you are ok. The car and cage did their job.

As far as the back is concerned, it will get worse before it gets better. Lay on your back, pillows under the back of your legs (kinda like sitting on a chair, only laying down) and ice the area that hurts. Keep on taking vitamin "I" buprofin to reduce the inflamtion. Try to avoid any position that places vertical pressure on your spine. Get comfortable with soap operas.

Rest is the best thing you can do now. It also wouldnt hurt to see a chiropractor.

[NakNak]

Daym it I was so hoping to see your car on the track sometime soon. Glad to see that you are ok, are you going to rebuild your car back?

[Suneal]

Incredible. Glad to see the cage and car did what they're supposed to do, and the RS driver seems like a complete tool. Good luck with the proceedings.

[Dinanify]

Originally Posted by TIATO

Ben,

First off, glad you are ok. The car and cage did their job.

As far as the back is concerned, it will get worse before it gets better. Lay on your back, pillows under the back of your legs (kinda like sitting on a chair, only laying down) and ice the area that hurts. Keep on taking vitamin "I" buprofin to reduce the inflamtion. Try to avoid any position that places vertical pressure on your spine. Get comfortable with soap operas.

Rest is the best thing you can do now. It also wouldnt hurt to see a chiropractor.

Good advice, I'll make sure to put the pillow under the calves, and keep on taking Vitamin I

After I get the MRI, I'll see about a Chiropractor. I also have a referral for physical therapy.

Originally Posted by NakNak

Daym it I was so hoping to see your car on the track sometime soon. Glad to see that you are ok, are you going to rebuild your car back?

Well, it will probably depend on the status of this chassis. The car is still on the trailer, but once my back has a little more to give, I'll be bringing the car over to Tony's for a an evaluation (need to figure out if the chassis is salvageable realistically).

[JClark]

Very sorry to hear. Glad you're ok and your safety gear did its job.

[jonmacs22]

Very sorry for your injury. I broke my back about six years ago and from that now perform rehab exercises multiple times a week in order to remain supported. Best of luck and no matter what, go to physical therapy and do their recommendations like it was a religion, it will make all of the difference.

just wondering, but what is the protocol for something like this when it is an HPDE? Is the Porsche guy liable? I know that the track is obviously free from fault, assuming the waiver we all sign has any backbone.

[B.Watts]

Originally Posted by jonmacs22

just wondering, but what is the protocol for something like this when it is an HPDE? Is the Porsche guy liable?

I'm pretty sure we are all essentially taking out lives into our own hands when we go out on track. It REALLY sucks for the OP, but keep in mind, he also made 2 mistakes (spinning and failing to go both feet in) that led to the incident. It would be hard to assign fault solely to the Porsche driver.

[Dinanify]

Originally Posted by jonmacs22

Very sorry for your injury. I broke my back about six years ago and from that now perform rehab exercises multiple times a week in order to remain supported. Best of luck and no matter what, go to physical therapy and do their recommendations like it was a religion, it will make all of the difference.

just wondering, but what is the protocol for something like this when it is an HPDE? Is the Porsche guy liable? I know that the track is obviously free from fault, assuming the waiver we all sign has any backbone.

we sign all of our rights away when we go to do a track day, and we acknowledge all of the risks involved. Now, I know that if I had caused this to someone else on an HPDE, and it was proven to be my fault, I would try to work with the person/person's car I had caused damage to. But that's the kind of person I am. I don't believe that it is mandatory by any means that the faulting driver is liable. There may be more to it than what I just typed, but I think that is the core of the stance that most organizations take.

And like bryan said, I did make two mistakes. However, even with those mistakes, after talking to Clive further, he, and a Spec Porsche Boxster, and even the white 911 were able to go around me, and I know the yellow was waving at 9 and I and the flag were visible. So, I don't for a moment think that the impact was unavoidable. He just wasn't paying attention to the track and track conditions (included the waving yellow flag). He had the red Myst (blinders to anything but the white 911 in front of him)

[S.Lang]

Yellow flag or no yellow flag, how the hell did this guy not see you? If you were 75% up the hill on drivers right, then you were in plain sight! Was he RIGHT on the tail of the P-car in front of him, and when that car moved left (I assume) then suddenly you were right there? If so, that's pretty bad with a waving yellow right there to driver's left at the top of the hill.....sounds like he was transfixed on the car in front of him. Habits like that will get people killed.

Good job not crying too much about the car. It did it's job, and it looks fixable to me from the photos. You obviously have a grasp on the concept of "can't afford to lose it? Don't track it".

On note of constructive advice I'd give (not that you were asking) - the small straight up the hill between 8 and 9 isn't a great place to check guages. You're just finishing a FAST exit from 8 and are having to prepare pretty quickly for braking into 9, and your eyes have to be just right for the semi-tricky exit of 9. There's enough time if all is well....but if it's not, then you're majorly distracted at a bad time. I'd check them coming out of T13, T15, and T6/7 as long as I wasn't passing someone there.

Hope you feel better, and glad it wasn't worse!

[Cory M]

Originally Posted by B.Watts

I'm pretty sure we are all essentially taking out lives into our own hands when we go out on track. It REALLY sucks for the OP, but keep in mind, he also made 2 mistakes (spinning and failing to go both feet in) that led to the incident. It would be hard to assign fault solely to the Porsche driver.

+1

[gobuffs]

Originally Posted by TIATO

Keep on taking vitamin "I" buprofin to reduce the inflamtion. Try to avoid any position that places vertical pressure on your spine. Get comfortable with soap operas.

Rest is the best thing you can do now. It also wouldnt hurt to see a chiropractor.

Aleve (Naproxen) is a more powerful anti-inflammatory than ibuprofen. I don't like chiropractors, but I am a physical therapist so what would you expect me to say? :-)

[txse46m3]

Originally Posted by TIATO

It also wouldnt hurt to see a chiropractor.

Are you an MD? If not, stop now. If you are you should have your license yanked.

I received advice like that when I hurt my neck. If I had been foolish enough to follow it, I'd likely never be able to use my left hand again. This is according to the Neurosurgeon who put a titanium plate in my neck.

[Dinanify]

Originally Posted by S.Lang

Yellow flag or no yellow flag, how the hell did this guy not see you? If you were 75% up the hill on drivers right, then you were in plain sight! Was he RIGHT on the tail of the P-car in front of him, and when that car moved left (I assume) then suddenly you were right there? If so, that's pretty bad with a waving yellow right there to driver's left at the top of the hill.....sounds like he was transfixed on the car in front of him. Habits like that will get people killed.

That's pretty much what I took away from what happened, and I agree with your analysis of those kinds of habits.

Originally Posted by S.Lang

Good job not crying too much about the car. It did it's job, and it looks fixable to me from the photos. You obviously have a grasp on the concept of "can't afford to lose it? Don't track it".

A car's just a car, I walked away from it, on to fight another day Car has a lot of love in it, but car's can be rebuilt.

Originally Posted by S.Lang

On note of constructive advice I'd give (not that you were asking) - the small straight up the hill between 8 and 9 isn't a great place to check guages. You're just finishing a FAST exit from 8 and are having to prepare pretty quickly for braking into 9, and your eyes have to be just right for the semi-tricky exit of 9. There's enough time if all is well....but if it's not, then you're majorly distracted at a bad time. I'd check them coming out of T13, T15, and T6/7 as long as I wasn't passing someone there.

Good advice, typically don't check there, but will definitely make sure to keep your recommendations in mind for the future.

Originally Posted by S.Lang

Hope you feel better, and glad it wasn't worse!

Thanks, me too, I walked away, mostly unscathed, could have been a lot worse!

[txse46m3]

Originally Posted by B.Watts

I'm pretty sure we are all essentially taking out lives into our own hands when we go out on track. It REALLY sucks for the OP, but keep in mind, he also made 2 mistakes (spinning and failing to go both feet in) that led to the incident. It would be hard to assign fault solely to the Porsche driver.

Every time I strap in, I do so knowing that someone else might kill me. It's a risky hobby and not always within our control. The only way to be confident you wont get smashed or hurt is to stay home. Once you leave the house, you've made an informed decision.

It takes a lot of guts and class to own up to and pay for damage that you contribute to. I can't honestly blame the PCar guy for not saying more simply because of how quickly civil suits get filed. Keep that in mind when you judge him.

[Dinanify]

Originally Posted by txse46m3

Every time I strap in, I do so knowing that someone else might kill me. It's a risky hobby and not always within our control. The only way to be confident you wont get smashed or hurt is to stay home. Once you leave the house, you've made an informed decision.

It takes a lot of guts and class to own up to and pay for damage that you contribute to. I can't honestly blame the PCar guy for not saying more simply because of how quickly civil suits get filed. Keep that in mind when you judge him.

I understand the idea of why he might not have used the phrase 'im sorry', but I know that I could have, having been in his shoes, come up with a way to show compassion without accepting blame. It does take a lot of guts, ...but I know it didn't take any guts to cover his car when he trailered it through the paddock, nor to be completely silent to me after the accident less the words 'are you alright' (there were multiple times he came down near where the car was, where we were trying to get it onto the trailer, towtruck driver was there helping us).

But in short, I do understand what you are saying, and had already thought about that at the track after the incident. I accept the risks that are present when I pull up to the track. I also hope that everyone that reads this thread will understand how to appropriately act should they slam into someone else's car, or better yet, how to avoid doing so in the first place by watching whats up ahead on the track, and checking each flag station before they start to fully engage their car's capabilities for a turn at a known manned flag station.

[Chrome Horn]

Originally Posted by Dinanify

I.........

Holy cow, Ben! Glad you are relatively unscathed. Wow.

[Cory M]

Originally Posted by Dinanify

...but I know it didn't take any guts to cover his car when he drove it through the paddock...

He probably covered it up so pictures of it don't end up all over the internet, smart move if you plan on trying the insurance route...

[skiboard06]

Glad to hear you're ok.


So has the Porsche guy made any attempt to contact you or offer any sort of compensation for your car's damage?

Anyone else had an incident on track where the "at fault" driver stepped up and paid for damages?

I've thought a lot about these situations before, fortunately for me tires can't hire lawyers.