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Thread: LIFETIME FILL - I Don't Think So!

  1. #1
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    LIFETIME FILL - I Don't Think So!

    I finally replaced my ATF in my GM tranny - A5S-390R.

    My car is at 83k miles.

    From looking at the fluid, it should have been changed at 20k miles, maybe even 15k miles.

    I noticed NO difference in how the car drives, so far...

    It's picture-pages time:

    What a load of crap!



    I just opened her up...





    A not so clean pan:




    This is the clump of goo from the magnets...


    It took a long time to clean this thing!
    But it finally came clean.




    I thought I would share my woes, and warn people NOT to wait, put off, or believe the Lifetime fill lie!

    I used Jo's write-up from EuroDyne.

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=860655

    It was the most clear and straight forward, and related to my GM tranny.

    I noticed that no-one really notes how much fluid they put in.
    I guess because everyone had different trannys with different compacities.

    According to BMWtips.com, my A5S-390R uses 9 total quarts, 8 without the torque converter.

    I am assuming that means that my torque converter holds 1 quart?
    This sounds wrong to me...

    So, after I drained the old fluid, and put in the new ATF, I filled the old ATF into the empty quart bottles.
    This way I could tell how much old fluid came out, and I could match approx. the amount of new fluid going in.

    So, about 6-6.5 quarts (old ATF) came out, and the same amount (new ATF) went back in.

    One other thing:
    I was pumping in the new fluid while the car was on and in neutral.
    You are suppose to stop pumping fluid in as soon as fluid starts to trickle out.
    The hose from the pump blocks most of the flow of fluid, so when you remove the hose after fluid trickles out, much more fluid flows out.

    I let it flow out moderately, but not when the fluid was barely coming out, then I re-installed the fill-plug.
    I installed the plug when the temp of the pan was around 95 deg F.

    Proper temp for the new ATF should be at 85-120 deg's F.

    Sorry for the long rant/ write.
    Thanks!
    Jason
    Last edited by Jason5driver; 10-20-2017 at 06:48 PM.

    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner …

  2. #2
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    Nice write-up. . . how long did it take you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW05 View Post
    Nice write-up. . . how long did it take you?

    Too long!
    I started at 11:00 pm, finished at 4:00, with many breaks.
    I took my time, making sure that I was thorough.
    The tranny is VERY important, and I didn't want to mess it up!

    I have noticed when I do DIY's, I tend to hurry, and drift over the instructions briefly, not good.

    So now, I make it a point to go steady and slow.
    It took forever to clean, because it was THAT bad.
    Dirty!

    Plus, right after I pulled the pan, I laid there in amazement, amazed at how dirty/ nasty the pan/ ATF was.
    Last edited by Gatsby740il; 10-18-2008 at 03:55 PM.

    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner …

  4. #4
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    wow that's like liquid metal in the bottom of that pan! you could have probably brought it to a surplus yard and gotten cash back for that. Mine's at 171k, think it's about time to change mine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
    I finally replaced my ATF in my GM tranny - A5S-390R.

    My car is at 83k miles.

    From looking at the fluid, it should have been changed at 20k miles, maybe even 15k miles.

    I noticed NO difference in how the car drives, so far...

    It's picture-pages time:

    What a load of crap!


    I just opened her up...



    A not so clean pan:




    This is the clump of goo from the magnets...


    It took a long time to clean this thing!
    But it finally came clean.




    I thought I would share my woes, and warn people NOT to wait, put off, or believe the Lifetime fill lie!

    I used Jo's write-up from EuroDyne.
    It was the most clear and straight forward, and related to my GM tranny.

    I noticed that no-one really notes how much fluid they put in.
    I guess because everyone had different trannys with different compacities.

    According to BMWtips.com, my A5S-390R uses 9 total quarts, 8 without the torque converter.

    I am assuming that means that my torque converter holds 1 quart?
    This sounds wrong to me...

    So, after I drained the old fluid, and put in the new ATF, I filled the old ATF into the empty quart bottles.
    This way I could tell how much old fluid came out, and I could match approx. the amount of new fluid going in.

    So, about 6-6.5 quarts (old ATF) came out, and the same amount (new ATF) went back in.

    One other thing:
    I was pumping in the new fluid while the car was on and in neutral.
    You are suppose to stop pumping fluid in as soon as fluid starts to trickle out.
    The hose from the pump blocks most of the flow of fluid, so when you remove the hose after fluid trickles out, much more fluid flows out.

    I let it flow out moderately, but not when the fluid was barely coming out, then I re-installed the fill-plug.
    I installed the plug when the temp of the pan was around 95 deg F.

    Proper temp for the new ATF should be at 85-120 deg's F.

    Sorry for the long rant/ write.
    Thanks!
    Jason
    Hello "Jason5driver":

    OK for the automatic.

    But I have a manual in the 540i and the X5. I asked the local dealer about changing the oil in the manual transmission. It seemed to me like a reasonable thing to do. Hey, I would pay!!

    Believe it or not, the dealer told me that they would not be willing to change the oil in the transmission because it was a "lifetime fill". They told me that the "special german synthetic" oil was engineered to change properties as it ages. The oil was designed to supply the lubrication requirements of the transmission when first installed and then to change chemical properties and lubricate the transmission differently as it aged.

    OK, I thought "Bull roar!" But, the dealer was not interested in me paying for the change. They told me that changing the "special" oil would result in manual transmission failure.

    Asking for a DNA test on the oil was on the back of my mind, but I just accepted their determination.

    Given that my religion directly relates to money, I do not understand why the dealer would refuse to do an oil change on the manual transmission.

    Does this make any sense?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
    I finally replaced my ATF in my GM tranny - A5S-390R....
    Bravo! Well done!

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    I guess its time to do mine as well as my diff...maybe next weekend...
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by nm335 View Post
    Hello "Jason5driver":

    OK for the automatic.

    But I have a manual in the 540i and the X5. I asked the local dealer about changing the oil in the manual transmission. It seemed to me like a reasonable thing to do. Hey, I would pay!!

    Believe it or not, the dealer told me that they would not be willing to change the oil in the transmission because it was a "lifetime fill". They told me that the "special german synthetic" oil was engineered to change properties as it ages. The oil was designed to supply the lubrication requirements of the transmission when first installed and then to change chemical properties and lubricate the transmission differently as it aged.

    OK, I thought "Bull roar!" But, the dealer was not interested in me paying for the change. They told me that changing the "special" oil would result in manual transmission failure.

    Asking for a DNA test on the oil was on the back of my mind, but I just accepted their determination.

    Given that my religion directly relates to money, I do not understand why the dealer would refuse to do an oil change on the manual transmission.

    Does this make any sense?
    Please don't leave all the pictures in your quote. I beg you.

  9. #9
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    Jason - good write up. Unfortunate thread title FTL.

  10. #10
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    re. dealer would not change the oil - I guess if you have a bad seal or gasket and they have to drain it out for the repair... they put the old back in? Probably not. If someone has a work order... see if they got charged for oil. I'll bet if you took that work order and show that dealer guy.. he would say " oh, yeah they get special oil from Germany that is aged to the transmission it is going in". it would be worth the trip down there with about 5 friends standing there and show the guy the work order.

  11. #11
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    Jason .. what fluid did you end up using and how much did it cost you for the fluids and filter ..


    1998 540IA Arctic Silver, OEM M-Tech Bumpers, Koni FSD/Eibach Pro Kit, MKII Motorsport 18x8.5 and 18x10, M5 Style Mirrors, ACS Style Trunk and Roof Spoiler, OEM Hella Xenon Headlights 4300k blubs, Slim HID 3K Projector Fogs, Euro Hella Celis Taillights, OEM M5 Kidney Grill, 35% tint, magnaflow 18415

  12. #12
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    My indy shop recommends changing it every 3 years.
    APR Stage 1 Tuned, APR Stage 1 intake

  13. #13
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    Now I feel like getting new tranny fluid. I think I might wait till I get a more beefier TQ converter.


    Superb Writeup!
    Last edited by Gatsby740il; 10-18-2008 at 03:56 PM.

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    Parting out M54 Engine. Intake and all. Cats avail as well. PM ME!

  14. #14
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    Good job man, thanks for bringing the issue to light.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
    I finally replaced my ATF in my GM tranny - A5S-390R.

    According to BMWtips.com, my A5S-390R uses 9 total quarts, 8 without the torque converter.

    I am assuming that means that my torque converter holds 1 quart?
    This sounds wrong to me...

    So, after I drained the old fluid, and put in the new ATF, I filled the old ATF into the empty quart bottles.
    This way I could tell how much old fluid came out, and I could match approx. the amount of new fluid going in.

    So, about 6-6.5 quarts (old ATF) came out, and the same amount (new ATF) went back in.

    Sorry for the long rant/ write.
    Thanks!
    Jason
    The 9 quarts ATF capacity is actually correct. You can only drain about 6+ quarts at a time, that's why some people including me drain and refill the tranny again after driving about 1k miles. You will be surprised to see how dirty the ATF after just driving 1k miles since you only replaced about 65% of dirty fluid the first time.

  16. #16
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    thanks man!

    almost 9 years!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by defaz View Post
    wow that's like liquid metal in the bottom of that pan! you could have probably brought it to a surplus yard and gotten cash back for that. Mine's at 171k, think it's about time to change mine?
    Dude,
    If mine was that bad at 83k miles,
    What do you think yours will look like?
    There is probably no fluid left...
    It's all metal...

    Do the job!
    I used this:
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=860655

    Thanks!
    Jason

    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner …

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
    Dude,
    If mine was that bad at 83k miles,
    What do you think yours will look like?
    There is probably no fluid left...
    It's all metal...

    Do the job!
    I used this:
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=860655

    Thanks!
    Jason

    lol im wondering the same i just hit 104k

    almost 9 years!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nm335 View Post
    Hello "Jason5driver":

    OK for the automatic.

    But I have a manual in the 540i and the X5. I asked the local dealer about changing the oil in the manual transmission. It seemed to me like a reasonable thing to do. Hey, I would pay!!

    Believe it or not, the dealer told me that they would not be willing to change the oil in the transmission because it was a "lifetime fill". They told me that the "special german synthetic" oil was engineered to change properties as it ages. The oil was designed to supply the lubrication requirements of the transmission when first installed and then to change chemical properties and lubricate the transmission differently as it aged.

    OK, I thought "Bull roar!" But, the dealer was not interested in me paying for the change. They told me that changing the "special" oil would result in manual transmission failure.

    Asking for a DNA test on the oil was on the back of my mind, but I just accepted their determination.

    Given that my religion directly relates to money, I do not understand why the dealer would refuse to do an oil change on the manual transmission.

    Does this make any sense?
    It seems to me, that ever since BMW in-stowed the "Lifetime Fill" and new maintenance program on modern bimmers, the dealer has completely separated ALL liability for doing anything with the tranny, unless the dealer can charge you $400-800 per change, just to hook up your car to their "special" computer, the GT-1.

    Places like BavAuto.com, actually sends you a flyer with a calender of all the different scheduled maintenance times/ procedures.

    I think BavAuto recommends the tranny fluid change every 30k miles.
    From what I saw/ experienced, I think the procedure should be done MUCH sooner.
    Last edited by Jason5driver; 12-23-2008 at 11:20 AM.

    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner …

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpatstone View Post
    Bravo! Well done!
    Thank you!
    I have put it off a long time.

    I was a bit intimidated by the whole ATF/ tranny scare.

    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner …

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by oekundar View Post
    I guess its time to do mine as well as my diff...maybe next weekend...

    Well, my car is a 2001, but really a late 2000, similar to your 2000.

    I say go for it.
    Drink beer while doing it!
    I needed to!

    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner …

  22. #22
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    Can't go to sleep...trany...trany..trany....................

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSapphire View Post
    Jason - good write up. Unfortunate thread title FTL.
    Sorry, I hope I didn't affend you....

    I guess I could have wrote "ARSE" or "HYNY", or left the butt out...

    I wasn't really trying to do a "write-up", but just voice my opinion on the job, and show my experiences.

    Thanks!
    Jason

    Quote Originally Posted by hcoles View Post
    re. dealer would not change the oil - I guess if you have a bad seal or gasket and they have to drain it out for the repair... they put the old back in? Probably not. If someone has a work order... see if they got charged for oil. I'll bet if you took that work order and show that dealer guy.. he would say " oh, yeah they get special oil from Germany that is aged to the transmission it is going in". it would be worth the trip down there with about 5 friends standing there and show the guy the work order.
    It's hard trying to understand what you are saying...

    But, if the dealer does the job, or even most independent shops (indys), they will use the BMW recommended part number noted on the stamp on the bottom of your tranny pan.

    Mine was green, the first picture shown.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaptom540 View Post
    Jason .. what fluid did you end up using and how much did it cost you for the fluids and filter ..
    I am an Amsoil preferred customer, so I can buy Amsoil products for a great price, well worth it, IMO!

    I used Amsoil Universal ATF.
    http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx

    Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)


    Quote Originally Posted by Black528i View Post
    My indy shop recommends changing it every 3 years.
    Great!
    I am assuming that estimates 15k miles per year (times [X]) three years =
    Every 45k miles.

    Quote Originally Posted by gumbi4u View Post
    Damn now I feel like getting new tranny fluid. I think I might wait till I get a more beefier TQ converter.

    Superb Writeup!
    You could wait, but who knows when you will find a good torque converter, if a new torque converter is even necessary.

    I vote doing the fluid change now, sooner, than later.

    Quote Originally Posted by applegeek View Post
    Good job man, thanks for bringing the issue to light.
    No problem!

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    The 9 quarts ATF capacity is actually correct. You can only drain about 6+ quarts at a time, that's why some people including me drain and refill the tranny again after driving about 1k miles. You will be surprised to see how dirty the ATF after just driving 1k miles since you only replaced about 65% of dirty fluid the first time.
    I also confirmed the fluid capacity in the Bentley and various other places as well.

    I guess I should have noted that I plan on draining (doing the same procedure again) in another 1000 miles.
    That way, I am getting rid if most of the old ATF left in the torque converter.

    I called my indy, and he was surprised that I got so much fluid out.
    I think I impressed him, but don't tell him.

    Thanks!
    Jason

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellicit View Post
    thanks man!
    For sure, no problem!

    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner …

  24. #24
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    Nice post! Were you really working under a jack or was that just for the sake of the pics?

  25. #25
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    Great writeup Jason! Glad you took the time to take pictures and clean your pan. Did you change the filter and gasket, and will you change them at the 1000 mile mark?

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