The "Money Shift"

[Reid]

Why does it seem that an overwhelming majority seems to place blame on the car when one misshifts rather than simply chalking it up to driver error? I have never felt there was a problem with the M3 transmission and never have misshifted the car.

What is so difficult about shifting this car properly?

People have even put up "how-to's" for shifting, which leads me to believe that the problem lies with the people who make shifting errors and not the transmission.

Similarly, Honda gearboxes are "known" (in some circles) to have syncros that wear quickly. In reality it is a problem of people who simply do not know how to shift properly, which is causing damage to the transmission. Those who place the blame on the Honda syncros are misinformed and/or simply do not own up to their own errors.

I am beginning to think there is a similar shift of blame with regard to the "money shift" and M3s.

Please do not take this as a flame, I am merely inquiring as to how this theory was started.

[mens rea]

Embarassment.

[MKit]

I had this "money-shift" last week
I never blame on the tranny, tho. I was just too careless.

[///AlpinePower]

i've never hit the jackpot myself, but i am willing to entertaint the idea that there is statistical significance between the number of people mis-shifting while driving M3s. There would need to be a calculation normalizing driver behavior, gender, M3s produced, and age to plot the significance.

i dont want to waste my time doing that. but i'll leave it at this: "sounds like a whole lotta people @#$% their cars this way"

[Reid]

Originally posted by ///AlpinePower
i've never hit the jackpot myself, but i am willing to entertaint the idea that there is statistical significance between the number of people mis-shifting while driving M3s. There would need to be a calculation normalizing driver behavior, gender, M3s produced, and age to plot the significance.

i dont want to waste my time doing that. but i'll leave it at this: "sounds like a whole lotta people @#$% their cars this way"

This has nothing to do with statistics or how many people have misshifted.

I merely am wondering if there was a perceived flaw with the transmission that was causing the misshifts.

[jedinite]

Two factors:

1) driver error. 'nuff said.

2) the transmission mounts in our cars are not that strong. Under hard lateral acceleration, the transmission mounts can give enough so that the transmission can shift far enough so that the gate for fourth gear can become second gear, etc.

<A HREF="http://www.shortshifter.com/techniques2.htm">Proper shifting technique</A> takes care of the first.

<A HREF="http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/tranny_mount/index.htm">UUC Tranny Mount Enforcers</A> take care of the second issue. Strongly recommended for any manual tranmission BMW - cheap insurance against a $6000 mis-shift, and help to firm up your overall shifting experience. TMEs work great in conjunction with a <A HREF="http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/bmw_shifters/shifter_nav.htm">short shift kit</A> and <A HREF=http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/clutch_stop/index.htm">clutch stop</A> to provide the ultimate shifting experience - just the right amount of pedal travel, with short and firm throws from gear to gear.

[bimmer95]

There's no problem with the tranny iteself. However there is definitely an issue with the way the shift linkage is setup. The shift carrier is suspended between the top of the tranny and a rubber mount on the body of the car. With the rather soft stock tranny mounts the tranny can twist enough to throw the alignment off on the linkage. Stiffer tranny mounts can certainly help the problem, a SSK really won't help at all.

[SR20Fastback]

Ive also had the misfortune of experiencing the Money $hift. I definately dont blame it on the transmission, rather I blame it on my stupidity for not paying closer attention. This little stunt is gonna cost me big, and I am now w/o a car for my 34 mile round trip to school and back.

[MKit]

I love my car so much that I will never blame anything on it.

[Ron17]

Hmmm... do you get the impression that people here blame the car for misshifts?

I never really have. While the soft stock tranny mount issue can be the cause of it under certain circumstances, most of the stories I read here can be directly traced back to driver error... even the driver will usually admit.

[///Mracer]

Well if you have ever been on the track then you might see how this could happen. I was in the middle of a very tight turn under heavy lateral load and tried shifting from 4-3 and found that the entire transmission had shifter in place and I actually put the car in 1st instead of 3rd. This was entirely due to the actual shifting of the transmission. The driver is putting the gear shifter inthe usual spot for 3rd gear but it ends up actually being in first. I caught the mistake early and did not cause any damage. After that I got re-enforced tranny mounts.

[Johno]

Sure, it's the driver's fault, because he did the shift.

But it is also a design flaw, because it's relatively easy to do in an M3. People routinely blame the driver, but they forget the fact that this problem is relatively rare in other cars.

To me it's like a sidewalk. If a sidewalk is 6 feet wide, very few people will fall off it. It they get in a hurry and run, 6 feet is still a good margin. If the sidewalk is a foot wide, most people will stay on the path, but more will fall off. If they run, they are more likely to misstep. The person who steps off the sidewalk is at fault for losig their balance. But the sidewalk being narrow is a huge factor.

The M3 transmission is like that 1-foot sidewalk. The tolerances for human error are much more critical than they are with other cars.

For BMW not to tell people to be extra careful is why BMW gets the blame in my book. I've driven many manual cars and trucks over the years, and I never even thought about shifting. In my M3, I have to think every time I shift at any speed over 60 MPH. BMW should tell people the cars are more sensitive. The reason they don't is that they would be admitting liability.

Some people will say this is the price I pay for a high performance "precision" car. That's bullshit. It's the price we pay for BMW not designing the transmission so shifting wrong is less likely. Other high performance cars do not have this problem.

JO

[ArcticFox]

Jedinite is on the money...driver error coupled with a "weak" tranny brace. This problem is compounded with sweepeing corners. The tranny shifts a bit, causing a "sloppy" and vauge shifter feel. Driver error causes a money shift....but it is compounded by the tranny shift. Tim

[VahramHS]

I did the money shift on the racetrack last November. It was on a sweeping turn and I got very lucky I wasn't pegging out 3rd gear so the damage wasn't bad. I fully admit it was brain fade on my part. I will be getting a JTD tranny brace to help prevent this from happening again. With a short throw shifter it makes it all the easier too.

[Seth Thomas]

So far I have not done the money shift on any E36 I have owned. Guess I am one of the lucky ones. But what is interesting is that people try to blame BMW for not designing a path of error in the M3. Why should they? This is a car that is supposed to be all about precision. They get a transmission that actually has a good precise shifting feel to it.

What I see the problem is the error lies with the people driving. You get people who used to drive Hondas, VWs, Chevys, etc that have a sloppy, wide shift in them. Then you go to an M3 that is precise and right on the money. They are used to this sloppy shifter and don't know how to shift in the M3. Or they get out on the race track and rush the shift causing a misshift.

My personaly opinion on this is that the tranny enforcers, bushings and all that are a good safety net if you are worried about the transmission moving but I think they are all a marketing ploy to get people to buy the products. They really are not needed. I have owned 4 E36 BMWs (3 M3s and my ITS 325 racecar). In all these cars I have not misshifted and I have never felt the tranny move in any of these cars. They have all been tracked. I will admit that I have not been able to find a gear before in only one of these cars. It was in the ITS 325 racecar with solid mounts. Why could I not find the gear? Because I was trying to rush my shift. It was all my fault because I know the tranny did not move any in that car. In all the other cars I have never had any problems with stock mounts. I have also never installed any different mounts or enforcers of any kind. Now you might say that maybe I don't drive these cars hard enough to notice this movement. I can assure you this is not the case as can several other members on this board. So my bottom line on all this discussion is that the problem is not in any manner a design fault on BMWs behalf. A misshift happens because of the operator and his actions.

[Ron17]

Originally posted by Seth Thomas
A misshift happens because of the operator and his actions.

:

Still, I'll pay $70 just to help ensure there's less chance of a misaligned tranny.

[jedinite]

Originally posted by Ron17
:

Still, I'll pay $70 just to help ensure there's less chance of a misaligned tranny.

Amen.

And bimmer95, I wasn't suggesting that a SSK helps with this issue - just suggesting that stiffer tranny mounts coupled with a SSK and a clutch stop give you shifting perfection in our cars. Separate issue. Sorry for the confusion, I could have worded my previous post better...

[BoostFed325]

i watched someone do the "money shift" i was scared sh-tless to drive my car after that haha.

iv actually dont it myself *driver error* but i didnt let the clutch out thankfully.

[Donovanj]

Some of the blame has to go with the car... I have been driving sticks all my life and misshifting has never been an issue an any other car I've driven. And you certainly don't hear it as an issue on most other car forums.

If the transmission twists so much that you shift into the wrong gear even though you put the stick in the "correct place for the choosen gear" then its not the drivers fault.

[Kyle M]

all my fault, but I brought her back to life with a nice upgrade

[Donovanj]

Originally posted by Seth Thomas

What I see the problem is the error lies with the people driving. You get people who used to drive Hondas, VWs, Chevys, etc that have a sloppy, wide shift in them. Then you go to an M3 that is precise and right on the money. They are used to this sloppy shifter and don't know how to shift in the M3. Or they get out on the race track and rush the shift causing a misshift.

So my bottom line on all this discussion is that the problem is not in any manner a design fault on BMWs behalf. A misshift happens because of the operator and his actions.

I will totally dissagree with you here... if the shifter is so precise then you should not be able to put it in the wrong gear so easily. Especially when the you the driver chooses the location where the gear SHOULD be.

If this is easily fixed with tranny mount enforcers etc then it IS BMW's design fault for not doing this at the factory!

[Johno]

A misshift happens because of the operator and his actions.

Just like somebody falls off a 1-foot sidewalk does so because of their actions.

Does anybody on the Porshe or Audi forums talk about destroying their engines in a shift?

This subject never came up on the Mitsubishi forum. You can say that an Eclipse is not as fine a car, but that makes the BMW look even worse in that the problem happen wiht the precision car.

I'm amazed that so many people refuse to look at the role of design in this situation.

JO

[Seth Thomas]

Originally posted by Donovanj
I will totally dissagree with you here... if the shifter is so precise then you should not be able to put it in the wrong gear so easily. Especially when the you the driver chooses the location where the gear SHOULD be.

If this is easily fixed with tranny mount enforcers etc then it IS BMW's design fault for not doing this at the factory!

I think you have missed my point. What did you say in your response? "Especially when the you the driver chooses the location where the gear SHOULD be." That is the problem all along. The DRIVER is the one who makes the misshift. The DRIVER is the one who selected the wrong gear. It is not the transmission moving like everyone tries to say it is. Yes the tranny mount enforcers will keep the transmission from moving if it moved. It doesn't unless your transmission mounts are BAD. So it only masks the real problem. You could to go solid mounts which never wear out but then you have a lot of transmission noise in the cabin of the car. But the transmission does not move in these cars.

[SR20Fastback]

Just out of curiosity, what sort of damage (parts and $) did you do for your Money Shift?

[Donovanj]

Originally posted by Seth Thomas
I think you have missed my point. What did you say in your response? "Especially when the you the driver chooses the location where the gear SHOULD be." That is the problem all along. The DRIVER is the one who makes the misshift. The DRIVER is the one who selected the wrong gear. It is not the transmission moving like everyone tries to say it is.

So it's "completely" the drivers fault even though the driver shifts into the "proper place" for the gear? The exact same place the gear was before the transmission twisted so much that it is now a different gear? I'm not buying that...

I do agree that it is a combination of the driver AND the transmission twist that causes the money shift to occur.

The transmission does in fact twist quite a bit under hard load. I have experienced it myself.