Technique Tuning E46 330 Stage2 Turbo Kit Preliminary Results

[sirzepp]

I 'think' that MS43 is drive by wire with a backup cable.

MS45 is straight drive by wire with no cable.

[SiGmA]

Interesting. I was 99% sure that the 01 330's I've worked on did not have any throttle cable, period. I've done a few cyclones on them, but it has been the better part of a year since I worked on the last one... Maybe I'm wrong. I thought BMW did away with the throttle cable with the M54.

[Robstah]

Originally Posted by SiGmA

I well could be wrong here, but I thought that the MS43 was drive by wire too?

Yes, you are correct. I was thinking more of a MS42 to MS43 than MS43 to MS45. My bad.

http://www.prior-chelt.co.uk/Files/bmw_pdf/Engines.pdf for MS42 to MS43 reference.

And here is the Z4 document with MS45 info in it:

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/...20Part%201.pdf

[sirzepp]

Originally Posted by SiGmA

Interesting. I was 99% sure that the 01 330's I've worked on did not have any throttle cable, period. I've done a few cyclones on them, but it has been the better part of a year since I worked on the last one... Maybe I'm wrong. I thought BMW did away with the throttle cable with the M54.

I could be wrong...I wasn't sure...(and I'm probably wrong...so no worries there).

[NickG]

Originally Posted by Neil

Yes, I get that, but does the MS45 software have any significant advantages over the MS43?

I guess it all depends who you speak to. The MS45 is definitely a more complicated system, and was a chore to figure out and make work with a single primary O2 sensor. But the torque management control is neat stuff (to me at least), and I LOVED the fact that it has wideband O2 sensors from the factory.

Originally Posted by JackEatsEmoKids

That's it Nick, PM me when I can go see you to discuss the madness I want to start in March.

SICK numbers for this engine.

You know how to reach me

Originally Posted by SiGmA

Nick, can you tune both MS43 and MS45?

Yes.

Originally Posted by SiGmA

I well could be wrong here, but I thought that the MS43 was drive by wire too?

Correct. Fully implemented TBW (or ETK) was implemented in MS43. MS42 had a hybrid system (throttle cable to the TB where the sensor was mounted, and the TB actually controlled by the ECU).

Originally Posted by Robstah

And here is the Z4 document with MS45 info in it:

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/...20Part%201.pdf

That Z4 document is wrong, as the MS45 does not have 2 processors in it, only 1.

[sirzepp]

Thanks for the information Nick. I wish I had your brain.

[SiGmA]

Originally Posted by sirzepp

Thanks for the information Nick. I wish I had your brain.

This.

Thanks Nick.

[highboostingm3]

Originally Posted by sirzepp

Thanks for the information Nick. I wish I had your brain.

This +1.
Although I would probably have to strengthen my neck muscles first.

[n24tg]

That torque curve is real nice.

[2002330i]

Finally back at ICS!!! Changing out the oil and filter and set it on Georges Dyno to make some pulls! Results to be posted soon!

[highboostingm3]

Originally Posted by 2002330i

Finally back at ICS!!! Changing out the oil and filter and set it on Georges Dyno to make some pulls! Results to be posted soon!

[z3papa]

Reading threads like this are difficult. While I have reasons to stay NA for autocross, the results make me want to head straight to Nick's facility and jump all over this. The car is now pretty much dedicated to enjoyment status and nothing translates into that more than serious power.

[IMPORTEDCARS]

I personally drove the TT Stage 2 car this evening and I must say, it's very impressive to say the least.

We dyno'ed the car on 3 boost setting.

344 whp SAE on 9 PSI
372 whp SAE on 11 PSI
392 whp SAE on 13 PSI

Car runs flawless Kudos to Nick G on developing an awesome turn key kit

-George Kakaletris

[BadBoostedBmwM3]

Awesome!!! That is plenty of horsepower for a street car... but I was thinking that it would be over 400whp. Anyways, that was on straight pump gas and no meth/water injection correct??

[IMPORTEDCARS]

Originally Posted by BadBoostedBmwM3

Awesome!!! That is plenty of horsepower for a street car... but I was thinking that it would be over 400whp. Anyways, that was on straight pump gas and no meth/water injection correct??

Meth is hooked up but was not turned on. The car currently still sports a catalytic converter.

-George Kakaletris

[sirzepp]

Awesome results. Perfect power...another great one, Nick!

[SiGmA]

Originally Posted by IMPORTEDCARS

I personally drove the TT Stage 2 car this evening and I must say, it's very impressive to say the least.

We dyno'ed the car on 3 boost setting.

344 whp SAE on 9 PSI
372 whp SAE on 11 PSI
392 whp SAE on 13 PSI

Car runs flawless Kudos to Nick G on developing an awesome turn key kit

-George Kakaletris

So it made 12whp SAE more on your dyno than the one used with NickG?

Also, is meth bad for a cat? What will the boost target be with meth?



Also, cool to see that it only lost 4whp when dropping compression, thats a nice piece of data! I really wish my friend would get one of these kits for his 330Ci...

[IMPORTEDCARS]

Originally Posted by SiGmA

So it made 12whp SAE more on your dyno than the one used with NickG?

Also, is meth bad for a cat? What will the boost target be with meth?



Also, cool to see that it only lost 4whp when dropping compression, thats a nice piece of data! I really wish my friend would get one of these kits for his 330Ci...

Yes 12 WHP More - cooler weather dense air will def compensate for that. This is a Stage 2 car 13 PSI TT kit.

-George Kakaletris

[Bigmac834]

Why does it make less power than a S52 at 13psi? Because of the .2L difference?

[NickG]

Originally Posted by Bigmac834

Why does it make less power than a S52 at 13psi? Because of the .2L difference?

Several reasons:

- less displacement
- intake manifold design
- cylinder head port design
- smaller turbine housing

Actually, if you were to run an S52 at 13psi, while retaining the stock intake manifold and stock cats, you'd probably be somewhere between 380-400rwhp, and that's still with a bigger turbine housing (.82 vs .63).

[Shuasha]

Originally Posted by NickG

Several reasons:

- less displacement
- intake manifold design
- cylinder head port design
- smaller turbine housing

Actually, if you were to run an S52 at 13psi, while retaining the stock intake manifold and stock cats, you'd probably be somewhere between 380-400rwhp, and that's still with a bigger turbine housing (.82 vs .63).

I've seen this first hand... also this is a non-M engine with likely less aggressive cams.

Great work Nick!

[Z3speed4me]

Agreed, incredible work and great power for that motor! Now we are just waiting for George to finish up all the details on that special ICS / TT super Nick G.(od) production.

Hopefully one of these days I will see the end result of one of these kits first hand.

[highboostingm3]

Originally Posted by IMPORTEDCARS

Yes 12 WHP More - cooler weather dense air will def compensate for that. This is a Stage 2 car 13 PSI TT kit.

-George Kakaletris

This! Nick G. dynoed in 90F+ weather conditions! It's tad colder up in the ICS Santa's worshop!

Originally Posted by NickG

Actually, if you were to run an S52 at 13psi, while retaining the stock intake manifold and stock cats, you'd probably be somewhere between 380-400rwhp, and that's still with a bigger turbine housing (.82 vs .63).

That means a lot right there! Even with a 0.63 t3 turbine housing! Must spool up sick!

Originally Posted by Shuasha

...also this is a non-M engine with likely less aggressive cams.

This! Very important information right here!

[SiGmA]

Does SAE not correct to the same temps? I thought that was the whole point of dyno'ing in SAE? Chris@HPF has said something along those lines before.

[NickG]

Originally Posted by SiGmA

Does SAE not correct to the same temps? I thought that was the whole point of dyno'ing in SAE? Chris@HPF has said something along those lines before.

It does....but it can't compensate for different intercooler efficiencies based on airflow (ie, the fan used on the dyno), cooler temps over the intercooler, etc. It has no way of knowing. Hence, SAE corrections (or any weather correction) isn't always accurate for a forced induction system. But since we don't have a better way to standardize the results, it's all we can do.