Top Mount PT6262 M Coupe Turbo Build

[daniels635turbo]

Originally Posted by mcoupes52

I just got home from the shop. Today I pulled the s52 crank then I put the m52 up on the stand and it's completely stripped down to the crank which I will pull tomorrow after work. The m52 has some miles on it for sure. All the gaskets were as dry as a 90 year old woman's Pu$$!!! This made me happy though because I know the motor wasnt ever taken apart to be tinkered with. I'll take pictures on the m52 internals tomorrow and post them so you can see how pretty and bronze everything is

So ive spent the morning reading through the posts on this build the envied childish critisisms and the untimely engine destruction........... well im wondering if this was in the works for a while. On the first video you published there was a good ploom of smoke (off throttle) that looked like valve guide suck through. Did you ever clearly determine where the problem was that led to the engine break ?
Im building an m30 turbo engine for my e24. 5 years in the works forged and custom internals built to handle big torque. My engine builder has an e23 745 turbo customer he built an engine for in the 80's that has 600 k miles on it !!!!
I say build it to handle the horses and torque and in the long run you will spend much less.
A smart man learns from his mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.......
Beautiful car and the envy of many including my self (atleast in this thread).

[VivaM3]

Originally Posted by daniels635turbo

So ive spent the morning reading through the posts on this build the envied childish critisisms and the untimely engine destruction........... well im wondering if this was in the works for a while. On the first video you published there was a good ploom of smoke (off throttle) that looked like valve guide suck through. Did you ever clearly determine where the problem was that led to the engine break ?
Im building an m30 turbo engine for my e24. 5 years in the works forged and custom internals built to handle big torque. My engine builder has an e23 745 turbo customer he built an engine for in the 80's that has 600 k miles on it !!!!
I say build it to handle the horses and torque and in the long run you will spend much less.
A smart man learns from his mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.......
Beautiful car and the envy of many including my self (atleast in this thread).

it really isn't about the difference between "smart" and "wise." i don't think there is a soul who would disagree with you that learning from other's mistakes first will allow you to spend much less on your own build in the long run. however that was never a goal of this build...initially the goal was to go after the stock S52 record. in order to go after such a record, you have to know that you'll be pushing the limits, and that the probability of blowing the motor is much greater than someone who built his or her motor from the get-go. we certainly appreciate the concern though...as you know, Brian is in the process of building an M52 with lighter and stronger internals than the OEM ones so that he doesn't have to worry about these things. but in the beginning, it was all about breaking a record (as opposed to failing to learn from other's mistakes before him).

[5mall5nail5]

Everyone knows that limits have to be pushed in order to make records on S52 stock motors, but nothing was pushed, it just failed. What has George made? 752 rwhp or something? This car dyno'd like 300 rwhp less than that. We can blame it on nitrous use in past history or whatever we want, but the attitude in this effort was greatly dampened when the thing fell apart. That's how humility works - getting ahead of yourself and having something catastrophic happen will surely put you in line. Next time, a wise person will not jump so far ahead. I've learned to never make claims that you A) haven't already made happen or B) are willing and able to make happen regardless of possible damage.

[VivaM3]

Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5

Everyone knows that limits have to be pushed in order to make records on S52 stock motors, but nothing was pushed, it just failed. What has George made? 752 rwhp or something? This car dyno'd like 300 rwhp less than that. We can blame it on nitrous use in past history or whatever we want, but the attitude in this effort was greatly dampened when the thing fell apart. That's how humility works - getting ahead of yourself and having something catastrophic happen will surely put you in line. Next time, a wise person will not jump so far ahead. I've learned to never make claims that you A) haven't already made happen or B) are willing and able to make happen regardless of possible damage.

A) nobody ever claimed that Brian would for sure break the record, or that it was only a matter of when, not if. so that couldn't possibly be the claim your referring to. perhaps you're referring to the fact that Brian claimed he was gunning for the record and never actually did. that's ok - i don't think anyone here is making any one of us out to be liars. after all, nobody lied about it or made a false claim. we just ran into a problem very early on, and based on practical and financial analysis, decided to change the scope and direction of the project. if anyone is truly so butthurt and disappointed b/c we said we were going for the record and then changed our minds after some technical difficulties, then they're free to think we made false claims all day long - i don't give a sh_t. this woudn't be the first time a BMW F/I project changed scope and direction, and it won't be the last.

B) there are two options - 1) go bigger and better with forged internals/valvetrain and a stouter block, or 2) replace damaged block/parts with an OEM S52 block/parts. to be that committed to breaking the stock S52 record requires alot of money - an amount far greater than that alotted for this project. it also involves a fair amount of luck - unless you know every little thing a motor has been through, you just don't know for sure how much stress it will tolerate while going for the record. so yeah, i guess it would have been fun for Brian to go for the record, but the circumstances have taken him in another direction. you talk about it as though this project has failed, when in actuality it just changed direction. there's nothing "fail" about a built M52 capable of 700whp, even if its been done quite a few times before.

[5mall5nail5]

I guess the point is, there was this big game talk about hitting the S52 record and it failed on a base tune at 400 some odd hp. Its very humbling and eye opening i think. I mean if the thing failed on a soft base map then there's no way it was going to be hitting 750+ rwhp. The scope didn't really change, it wasn't realistic from the get go... so in that regard I guess it changed.

It's cheaper to take a stock S52 to a high power level a few times to break a record than it is to build a forged built motor with head work. So I guess what it boils down to is that it easy to bolt a 6262 to an S52 and said you're going to do _____, and when _____ didn't happen its, "well the scope changed anyway so whatever". People don't usually call our "world records" and then let them slip away, unless of course they weren't really in it to win it anyway. Obviously it makes more sense to build a motor to run 750+ rwhp, but we all know that works. Just saying. If it broke at 720 rwhp that'd be a noble effort.

[VivaM3]

Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5

It's cheaper to take a stock S52 to a high power level a few times to break a record than it is to build a forged built motor with head work.

...except when the motor isn't up to it in the first place. case in point - Brian's motor. just b/c one person's S52 made it to a record power level doesn't mean all of them (or even a small fraction of them) will hit that same number or even come close. like i said previously, it depends heavily on what kind of stresses the motor put up with previous to going F/I. so in some instances it might be cheaper to make high numbers on stock internals a few times than it is to just straight up build, but in most cases it isn't cheaper to go that route due to the likelihood of the OEM parts breaking...especially when you haven't owned to motor since it was brand new and don't know everything its been through. if Brian were to source another S52, its integrity would only be as good as the seller's word.

at any rate, aside from the things i disagreed with, you essentially reiterated what i just said...so thanks, i guess? obviously Brian wants lots of reliable power, and that matters to him more now than the stock S52 record. a.k.a. i don't think he gives a sh_t if the effort being put into this build is perceived as less than noble by whoever...especially since its going to end up being exactly what he wants anyways...

there's no pleasing everyone...the goal may be the same (700+whp), but the scope and direction of the project most definitely changed whether you can see it or not. if it didn't change, you'd see Brian still working with a stock S52 block and internals.

[SiGmA]

Damn man. Jon is right in saying its cheaper to take a stock motor to high power a few times. On those dyno pulls, Brian should have cranked it up to 25-30psi and broken the record. Would have achieved the same thing, a broken motor, and a broken record.

I think Brian stated he wants more than 800whp now, did he not? He said he needs a bigger turbo for his future goals... Implying needing over 800whp.

[VivaM3]

Originally Posted by SiGmA

Damn man. Jon is right in saying its cheaper to take a stock motor to high power a few times. On those dyno pulls, Brian should have cranked it up to 25-30psi and broken the record. Would have achieved the same thing, a broken motor, and a broken record.

I think Brian stated he wants more than 800whp now, did he not? He said he needs a bigger turbo for his future goals... Implying needing over 800whp.

actually, in an attempt to play it safe, 25-30psi wasn't exactly an option on the temporary base map. i mean had we known it was going to blow anyways, i suppose we might have tried it. but there was no way of knowing a blown motor would come so soon after those dyno runs...so we never would have risked that on the dyno that day.

as far as Brian wanting 800+whp, i think he'll see how far he can push the 6262 on race gas and high boost with the build motor first. i mean he should be able to achieve ~750whp with enough boost on the 6262. besides, we don't want to take everything Brian says verbatim or it might just amount to "big talk" and "false claims" should he change his mind and go a different direction in the near future lol.

[Digitalwave]

Brian most love having an official spokesman for his build thread. Saves him a lot of time.

[wushucivic]

Originally Posted by Digitalwave

Brian most love having an official spokesman for his build thread. Saves him a lot of time.

[5mall5nail5]

You seem to dismiss the "blown" engine. A blown engine is something that happens when someone intentionally destroys it, or makes more power than the components were designed for (headgasket due to pressure or heat, rods bending, pintons cracking, etc). I am just trying to keep things grounded in saying that this thing "blew" on a base tune. You still don't know that the manifold constructed, intake or exhaust, can even flow enough air to make that power (i'll reserve my judgement of the intake manifold). The turbine is being fed cylinders through 3 runners at 3 corners of the T4 flange... I mean there's a LOT in question other than the motor staying together. Just trying to be realistic.

[siuformula]

I know for a fact that the intake will flow enough volume for the specified HP goal. Keep in mind that we are all on this forum for the same reason.... To learn and have fun while doing it. If you are on here for any other reason than that you should leave. We are wanting to push the limits of physics. Step back 15 years and look at the "advanced components" compared to what is being done today. The quest for more horsepower has taken us a long way in a short time. That is something that no one can deny.

The valve deciding to fall into the cylinder has very little to do with the base tune. I was prepared to perform a failure analysis but was told by brian and shawn to let it go. we are at this point focussing all of our efforts on the future by puting together a motor that will handle the power. This is not a heavily funded project. Had Brian not blown through his lottery winning in Vegas on that one girl I'm sure he would have been more than happy to buy 2 or 3 s52 blocks and continued to experiment until we achieved the goal.

[highboostingm3]

Originally Posted by siuformula

Had Brian not blown through his lottery winning in Vegas on that one girl I'm sure he would have been more than happy to buy 2 or 3 s52 blocks and continued to experiment until we achieved the goal.

My vote for pics/video of this girl!

[GT35Rm3]

I agree with cam...

Personally I think I would rather stick my rod in a built m52

[highboostingm3]

Originally Posted by GT35Rm3

I agree with cam...

Personally I think I would rather stick my rod in a built m52

True, but if we don't have any engine build progress pics, we might as well have pics of this girl he blew so much money on. Must be Godly hot in order to do something like that.

[milKT]

Originally Posted by highboostingm3

True, but if we don't have any engine build progress pics, we might as well have pics of this girl he blew so much money on. Must be Godly hot in order to do something like that.

You'd be surprised what puppy love can make
a man's wallet hand do.
She may not have been hot.

[5mall5nail5]

Did this girl involve like a few sandwich baggies full of coke?

Who blows $7k on a girl in Vegas who's not seriously depressed?

Weird.

[black bnr32]

Originally Posted by highboostingm3

we don't have any engine build progress pics

[highboostingm3]

Originally Posted by milKT

You'd be surprised what puppy love can make
a man's wallet hand do.
She may not have been hot.

That is really sad. My friends and I used to challenge eachother to see who could nail the hottest chick with the least amount of money spent. I won with the hottest chic and $3.46.

Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5

Did this girl involve like a few sandwich baggies full of coke?

Who blows $7k on a girl in Vegas who's not seriously depressed?

Weird.

Did I miss something? $7k? Holy sh_t! Was he drunk in the champagne room for 8 hours?

Originally Posted by black bnr32

Tell me about it...

[5mall5nail5]

2-3 s52 bottoms sounds like 5 to 7k to me.

[SiGmA]

Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5

Did this girl involve like a few sandwich baggies full of coke?

Who blows $7k on a girl in Vegas who's not seriously depressed?

Weird.

No freaking kidding... Sad story indeed

Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5

2-3 s52 bottoms sounds like 5 to 7k to me.

Eh that's pretty steep. Depending on the market at the time of purchase, a stock S52 goes from $2000-3000. So $7k for 3 S52's isn't that low...

[rt turbo]

Originally Posted by SiGmA

No freaking kidding... Sad story indeed Eh that's pretty steep. Depending on the market at the time of purchase, a stock S52 goes from $2000-3000. So $7k for 3 S52's isn't that low...

damn, then, mine at 1700 is a steal then.

[s52e368]

ive got a s52 block and crank i could let go for 600

[5mall5nail5]

Carl, PM me about the crank alone (or IM)

[rundatrack]

Lessons learned and move forward.



Built again with the knowledge you have learned....good luck