e30 LS1 Buildup!

[Storz]

Awesome project!

[323I Junkie]

Are you using factory engine management?
What are you using for integrating the electronics?
Dude talk to us...

:

[garretvs]

Hi From garret & Steve

We're using an LS7 waterpump with 1/2" spacers between it and the block (from Wegner motorsports, a NASCAR engine builder in Wisconsin). The LS7 pump pulley is about flush with the crank pulley. We used a CTS-V serpentine belt tensioner with a few washers behind it to get in line with the belt.

Our '99 Camaro engine uses the stock wire harness and PCM. We have a small adapter harness (www.scanmyride.com) that provides AC and fan relays. We will have to add an ignition relay.

There is a limited interface between the PCM and the host car. Most of the interface is at BMW connectors C101 (ignition, fuel pump, oil pressure switch, temp sensor) C104 (tach, switched power to main relay pull-in coil) and C105 (A/C request). We mounted a BMW temp sensor in the RH cylinder head (9/16-18 thd -- huh? thought it was a metric car) and a BMW oil pressure switch on the GTO oil pan.

We will need a 318 "personality module" that plugs into the back of the E30 instrument cluster. Our car is a 325 (with 6-cyl personality module). We need the 4-cyl personality module so that the tach signal from the LS PCM will be compatible. Hey: anybody got a 4-cyl module??

We are about 1/2 way done. We are now remote mounting a '97 Mustang HydroBoost and master cyl since there is no room on the LH side for a conventional booster on the cowl. We are also making a custom steering intermediate shaft from (2) E34 steering u-joints and a short piece of pipe. This will help in running the LH headers. We intend to cut-down the '99 Corvette headers we have and re-weld as necessary.

The LS1 & T56 weigh about 610lbs fully dressed with accessories and intake manifold (see the Vorshlag photos of their engine on scales). About 500lbs will be on the front engine mounts (BMW 540 isolators) and 100lbs on the tranny mount. We are in process of figuring out the transmission crossmember.

When we're done, we intend to post a complete write-up with part numbers, drawings we have made, what could be better. We're looking at a July finish as Garret gets out of school and can spend more time on fabbing parts.

E30-LS1 aka 357is


** note that as we finished the swap, we found out that the temp sensor and oil pressure senders are M14x1.5 thread, which is within .007" of a 9/16-18. Much better to tap with an M14 ..... SVS 05-09-09

[M3Alpine99]

Um good thread and that car is going to scoot!!!

[speedyhawk101]

Can't wait for the write up and drawings!!!! Good Luck guys!

[323I Junkie]

You guys are after my own heart. Kudos on interfacing with the factory gauges!

[whiltebeitel]

I am going to wait for the whole documentation of your swap before I get into this myself. I'm still trying to determine the feasability at this point.

[maniac10]

What are you going to do about the suspension to deal with the weight. It will make the car very heavy up front and pull when cornering...Though this is probably for straight line speed...Special halfshafts too??

cool project.

cheers,
stefan

[whiltebeitel]

if you referenced the Vorshlag thread , you'd know the LS1 isn't the cast-iron lump most take it for at first glance. It's 409 lbs with the monster T56 behind it. It can also be placed behind the front wheel centerline, making the mass centrilization better than with the M20.

[speedyhawk101]

What are you going to do about the suspension to deal with the weight. It will make the car very heavy up front and pull when cornering...Though this is probably for straight line speed...Special halfshafts too??

cool project.

cheers,
stefan

Stefan,

Have you read any of these threads? The LS1 is super light being that it is an aluminum block/heads V8. Just because it's a V8 does not mean that it is an overweight monster you could expect to see in a LTD or a Caddy.

The whole point of a swap like this, is because of the minimal weight diff. Soooo much power and maybe a 50 lbs weight trade off.

Halfshafts may be a problem. But that's an obsticle that can be overcome.

[maniac10]

i am simply stating my observations and not trying to cause a riot. I believe that the m20 is about 245lbs, and the ls1 will be about 400 or so lbs, plus the beefier drivetrain...I know its aluminum, and i know its not a huge difference of weight, but for such a light car, it still makes a difference for there will be around 150lbs of extra load.

I was only asking if that will be addressed, or, as it seems, nobody thinks that 150lbs or so up front will change anything....

but hey, cool project and kudos for tackling such a sweet project.

Stefan

[garretvs]

Hi From Garret & Steve

Check out the Bob Heacox swap of an LS engine into his E30: 2750lbs before, 2830lbs after -- like having your 6th grader along for the ride.

The LSx engines are the lightest, most compact, most powerful engines available, with lots of growth potential via the huge amount of hot-rod parts available. The standard heads flow as much cfm as NASCAr heads of only a few years ago; check out the MagnaCharger surercharger; etc, etc.

LSx can't be beat from a cost and availability viewpoint. Putting a turbo into an E30 would cost more and be almost as much effort.

Be aware, though that putting an LSx engine into a small car like an E30 is not easy -- a Miata engine bay is roomier -- see LS1tech.com conversions & hybrids (there are guys putting LSx engines into nearly anything you can imagine -- great tech info also)

E30-LS1 aka 357is

[323I Junkie]

Yeah the weight is not really the issue. The issue is, when this is done with the obvious attention to excellence these guys have, is a car that stock, is going to outrun the new M3 V8 and could potentially hang with it on modest track conditions with modestly skilled drivers.

The most exiting thing I see is taking advantage of those heads and building an extremely high revving high compression LS1 which most people do not do due to the cost effectiveness of FI and the torque associated with them. He is oging to get to play with things normally disregarded unless class rules keep you from FI. THe fact his powerband will not start until 4500 RPM or 5500 RPM will be irrelevant because even out of its powerband the 5.7 will make more power than an original M3 engine.

rock on man

[whiltebeitel]

i am simply stating my observations and not trying to cause a riot. I believe that the m20 is about 245lbs, and the ls1 will be about 400 or so lbs, plus the beefier drivetrain...I know its aluminum, and i know its not a huge difference of weight, but for such a light car, it still makes a difference for there will be around 150lbs of extra load.

I was only asking if that will be addressed, or, as it seems, nobody thinks that 150lbs or so up front will change anything....

but hey, cool project and kudos for tackling such a sweet project.

Stefan

To make it clear, the 409 lbs is including the transmission and accessories, the M20 weight doesn't include the trans at the very least.


oh, and I think this pic pretty much sums up what will happen:

[323I Junkie]

oh man the more I think about this the more I like it. THe LS1 is undersquare. I beleive there are now suffficient parts out there to build an oversquare symmetry, think destroked 7.0 liter, 8K RPM motor. In fact, Im sure there are. It would be a thing of beauty to behold. Imagine pulling up and hearing this monstrous V8, snappy V8 ticking begrudgingly through the headers, and the sounds it will make when you finally touch the throotle and the tach jumps towards 8K like the 1 was on fire.Clutch pushing back on your left foot till your muscles start declining to comply. You'll have to figure out someway to launch this go kart.

[garretvs]

Here's some updates of the remote brake booster linkae. Sorry about the dirty engine bay, and the primer that will of course be fixed by the end of this whole project.


Before with the outline of what needed to be hammered/removed









The hydoboost will mount to the front of the bracket pointed toward the left headlight.

[323I Junkie]

nice fab

[speedyhawk101]

awsome work

[XfreerideX]

Dig it!!!! Homegrown build too!!!

[rao]

Great idea - can't wait to see it all together.

[BMWJNKY]

If you wanted to loose a brake booster all together would a Tilton pedal and master cylinder set-up work? Then you could just pick out the right size m/c's to get the pedal feel you want.

[ososinsk]

If you wanted to loose a brake booster all together would a Tilton pedal and master cylinder set-up work? Then you could just pick out the right size m/c's to get the pedal feel you want.

I think that would work great but wouldn't it be $1500 or so to set that up?

[Fair]

I think that would work great but wouldn't it be $1500 or so to set that up?

With 2 pedals and 2 MCs... maybe 400? $235 for a dual pedal assembly and another $70 for master cylinders. You run two MCs for the brakes (1 for each circuit), so add a 3rd for the hyd. clutch and it still keeps you under $500. Easy to adjust (balance bar) and very compact. Lots of options on mounting, too. The nice thing about Tiltons is you can mount them under the dash ("overhung"), but of course this means gutting the factory dash somewhat. Not something you'd wanna do on a real street car.



Or alternatively, floor mounted:



Or even with the m.c. reservoirs remote mounted:



I like the remote brake master cylinder mount you guys made. Clever. The notch in the vertical strut tower bracing needs reinforcement, but I assume you'll get to that later.

The relocation of various parts is only bound by your creativity. Here's an example: the ABS assembly from an E36 is mounted under the (semi-gutted) dash, right on the trans tunnel.

[ososinsk]

Ahh ok i thought those things cost a lot more... You're right about them not being for a street car though i think...

[garretvs]

Hey Fair, thanks for the pics in your post. We decided to go the HydroBoost route because we thought that it would require the least in mods (under-dash of the E30 is a rat's nest) and be kind of cool. We can also make every thing with a hacksaw and a file & 110v MIG welder. BTW, www.onlinemetals.com can supply small steel and aluminum parts cut to size for almost nothing -- check them out.

We're using a '97 Mustang GT booster and master cyl; 259.00 plus shipping from www.rockauto.com (a superb site that has real pics of all of their stuff and much lower cost than any other site we use). The little forged forks on our "joggled" linkages are from McMaster-Carr (9.00 ea), the rod-end link is from Midwest Control (about 35.00 with rod-ends).

We're going to get the HydroBoost system painted black and mounted this weekend. We are going to patch the half-moon cut-out in the shock tower stiffener with a piece of sectioned pipe. Maybe we can finish the trans x-member, too. (good pics of the LS1-T56 combo on scales...)

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is