M50 Manifold Installation Gone Horribly Wrong - Urgent Help Needed

[Poke2120]

Ok to make a long story short, my friend Richard and I began to install the M50 Manifold Kit onto his 328i this weekend. All together, working both Saturday and Sunday, we spent 17 hours, yes... 17 hours.

It took all of Saturday to install the M50 and we did not try to start the car until Sunday morning. When we did, the car immediately stalled at least 3 times before finally being able to stay running BUT with the assistance of someone stepping on the gas pedal. The car would not idle on its own. It also was extremely jumpy on the revs, it had a mind of its own. Also, the engine was making some god awful noises, sounded like it was on its death bed. Also, there was a loud thumping sound coming from the manifold every few seconds. After awhile the car would die on its own, regardless of what we did to the throttle.

We took the M50 back off, and tripple checked all the tubing and EVERYTHING. Then put the M50 back on. And gave it yet another try, the car actually idled on its own now, but sat right on the border of stalling at 200rpms maximum. The noises coming from the engine, again, where the same. But are very hard to describe in words, it sounded awful.

Later on Sunday night we decided it was time to put the M52 back onto the car and return it to stock. After a few hours evertyhing was back to gether, completely stock. Started the car up. There was not one change in the way the car had acted when it had the M50 manifold on it. It had the exact same symptoms. Our only thought was "oh... shit!" Note, we let the car stumble and cough on its own today for at least 5 minutes, with black smoke speewing out the exhaust. This is NOT an issue with the computer adjusting to the new manifold, it had plenty of time to do that.

Note: The OEM M52 original and all of its equipment is currently back on the car and sitting.

Today we got out the Peake Code Reader and deiced to see what codes it was throwing. It threw a total of 10 codes.

They are as listed (hope this helps):
E9 - Catalytic efficiency below threshold cylinders #1-3
EF - Misfire detected in cylinder #2
EE - Misfire detected in cylinder #1
F0 - Misfire detected in cylinder #3
35 - Idle speed actuator (open)
1B - Idle speed actuator (closed)
dE - Time to closed loop temperature too long
08 - Air Mass Sensor
F2 - Misfire detected in cylinder #5
F3 - Misfire detected in cylinder #6

Note: It never threw a misfire for #4... why not?

What is going on here? Why are the cylinders misfiring? Even if the cylinders themselves aren't misfiring and it is more related to the manifold, why is cylinder #4 working?

Please for the love of god someone help. This car is sitting and needs to be fixed ASAP.

If you have ANY ideas at all, please respond. Especially if you've ever done the M50 manifold install before.

Poke

[KozanBMW]

Wow sounds shitty, hopefully there is an easy fix.

[Poke2120]

Bump! Help!!!!!!!

[uiuc240]

Well, something that jumps out at me there is the Air Mass Sensor. Is it plugged in? Is it wired properly? How's your timing?

I have *no* idea what goes in the manifold swap, as I'm totally new to Bimmers...but by the faults you're talking about, I'd say something's up with the ignition, the timing, or the fuel delivery or the air metering. It probably has no idea how much fuel is going into the cylinders nor does it seem to be igniting the mixture at the right time in the engine's cycle.

I would start by checking over all the connections, as well as checking your mass air sensor (get a volt meter and go to town).

Tell us more about what *exactly* you've done. Perhaps you missed something. Are you really sure all the vacuum lines are kosher? Are you really sure that all the injectors are firing properly? Could you have swapped around the connectors on them?

Lots of things could be happening here. You have not killed your motor yet. Give us more.

Eric

[redrocket328]

Well this was my car that we did this too... All of the hoses are connected, as far as we can see, it is possible that a hose came unconnected somewhere else but i pulled on every hose that we worked with and it was plugged in everywhere. All of the sensors are plugged in too.... There could also be a leak somewhere in one of the vaccum hoses... We will check that tomarrow. John of Team B.A.R. suggested spraying carb cleaner to check for vaccum leaks. Well do that tomarrow. But everything is plugged in.
We really need someone who is familier with diagnosing engine faults and to root out the problems. Someone please help us soon, If we cant figure it out by Wed. we are going to have to trailer the car to pro imports in Gaithersburg, Md. on friday and I dont want to have to do that....
~Rich

[Imperialduckm3]

Okey let me help you as much as possible (fellow 328s). Can you explain to me how you guys install the M50 intake. Where did you get the instruction? what kind of parts were used? Etc...

I know its a pain in the butt, but I have install on my car couple of months ago and still remember how to do it.


Peter

[Poke2120]

I'll leave that one up to Richard.

Here is one idea we have just come up with, that might be causing the problem. On the throttle body, actually the throttle body housing around the 2nd butterfly (there are two), has 2 cables that control the throttle. They open and close the butterfly to allow air in of course. But we had to take these cables all the way off when we took apart the throttle body, when we cleaned it. We think maybe when we tightened the cabkes to reatach them, that did it. We have NO idea how much you are supposed to tighten or loosen them. We just guessed.

Poke

[Imperialduckm3]

Ok to make a long story short, my friend Richard and I began to install the M50 Manifold Kit onto his 328i this weekend. All together, working both Saturday and Sunday, we spent 17 hours, yes... 17 hours.

Wow, 17hours for a M50 swap, you guys really had a rough time

It took all of Saturday to install the M50 and we did not try to start the car until Sunday morning. When we did, the car immediately stalled at least 3 times before finally being able to stay running BUT with the assistance of someone stepping on the gas pedal. The car would not idle on its own. It also was extremely jumpy on the revs, it had a mind of its own. Also, the engine was making some god awful noises, sounded like it was on its death bed. Also, there was a loud thumping sound coming from the manifold every few seconds. After awhile the car would die on its own, regardless of what we did to the throttle.

Off the bat, you guys did not put in the Vacuum hose correctly. Buy forcing the car to "start" you flooded spark plugs. Have you tried changing a new spark plug?

Later on Sunday night we decided it was time to put the M52 back onto the car and return it to stock. After a few hours evertyhing was back to gether, completely stock. Started the car up. There was not one change in the way the car had acted when it had the M50 manifold on it. It had the exact same symptoms. Our only thought was "oh... shit!" Note, we let the car stumble and cough on its own today for at least 5 minutes, with black smoke speewing out the exhaust. This is NOT an issue with the computer adjusting to the new manifold, it had plenty of time to do that.

Note: The OEM M52 original and all of its equipment is currently back on the car and sitting.

Today we got out the Peake Code Reader and deiced to see what codes it was throwing. It threw a total of 10 codes.

They are as listed (hope this helps):
E9 - Catalytic efficiency below threshold cylinders #1-3
EF - Misfire detected in cylinder #2
EE - Misfire detected in cylinder #1
F0 - Misfire detected in cylinder #3
35 - Idle speed actuator (open)
1B - Idle speed actuator (closed)
dE - Time to closed loop temperature too long
08 - Air Mass Sensor
F2 - Misfire detected in cylinder #5
F3 - Misfire detected in cylinder #6

Note: It never threw a misfire for #4... why not?

What is going on here? Why are the cylinders misfiring? Even if the cylinders themselves aren't misfiring and it is more related to the manifold, why is cylinder #4 working?

Please for the love of god someone help. This car is sitting and needs to be fixed ASAP.

If you have ANY ideas at all, please respond. Especially if you've ever done the M50 manifold install before.

Poke

Did you reinstall the MAF and make sure its nice and tight?

[Imperialduckm3]

I'll leave that one up to Richard.

Here is one idea we have just come up with, that might be causing the problem. On the throttle body, actually the throttle body housing around the 2nd butterfly (there are two), has 2 cables that control the throttle. They open and close the butterfly to allow air in of course. But we had to take these cables all the way off when we took apart the throttle body, when we cleaned it. We think maybe when we tightened the cabkes to reatach them, that did it. We have NO idea how much you are supposed to tighten or loosen them. We just guessed.

Poke

It shouldn't matter how tight on the throttle body cable. The tighter the better.

Why did you guys remove the throttle body cable in the first place . You just need to get a coat hanger and hang it on the hood or move it to the side?

[Poke2120]

It shouldn't matter how tight on the throttle body cable. The tighter the better.

Why did you guys remove the throttle body cable in the first place . You just need to get a coat hanger and hang it on the hood or move it to the side?

We completely removed the throttle body, all 3 main peices of it. It needed to be cleaned with Throttle Body cleaner.

Now that we've tried to start it numerous times, u think the spark plugs must be changed now, eh? Hrmm..

Poke

[Imperialduckm3]

We completely removed the throttle body, all 3 main peices of it. It needed to be cleaned with Throttle Body cleaner.

Now that we've tried to start it numerous times, u think the spark plugs must be changed now, eh? Hrmm..

Poke

Now, when you remove the TB, did you replace the rubber gasket with a new one or reused the old one? and when you stated you used a Throttle Body cleaner, don't tell me use a Carb Cleaner? Now did you give time for the TB to dry out before you reinstall it, sometime the Carb Cleaner are flamable and "can" cause a misfire (if you notice on the Carb Cleaner label)?

I still thinking you guys have a Vacuum leak somewhere (TB, is my first guess since you guys ripe it apart). Second, try a new spark plug and see if that helps..

Peter

[Poke2120]

Peter, this was a special TB cleaning solution. Comes in an aerosol can much like the carb cleaner, but it was different.

Yes it had plenty of time to dry and I even air compressed it completely dry first.

Which rubber gasket are you speaking of? Because if you mean the orange rubber between the manifold itself and the TB (where they touch), then no. Because the M50 already has one built in, and you do not use the one that came on the M52 with that.

Poke

[Imperialduckm3]

Yes, the yellow rubber gasket. When you install the M50 manifold, you did put 2 gasket on the TB? You suppose to cut one in half?

[cleoent]

sounds like you sparky's may have gotten fouled up, 20 bucks and 10 minutes and you can test that theory out before you continue to crap your pants

[BimmerDude18]

I have no idea whats wrong...but, I thought it took 10 minutes for the computer to reset everything. I could be totally wrong but that was the way I understood it. If it is 10 minutes then your ECU may not have changed.

[Imperialduckm3]

Our DME are not like Honda's or any Japanese car. Its actually stored as a flash memory and takes more then 20minutes to "clear" the DME

[Poke2120]

The way the car was acting guys, there is NO way that letting the computer "adjust" would make it all smooth again. No way in hell. The car sounded like it had been hit with a granade and was dying a slow death.

And I still don't know what you mean about the gasket. The one that came originally on the M52 was orange, and when we took off the TB it just fell off, it wasn't sealed in or anything. The DIY write-up mentioned nothing about reusing that orange ring when the M50 already has a orange ring, but it is sealed inside the M50 itself, and does not come out.

Poke

[LWRNCE]

Damn... That is why I let shops install those things...

[cybersnork47]

I HAD THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM AS YOU DID, IT ALSO TOOK ME JUST AS MUCH TIME. THE FIRST TIME I STARTED MY CAR IT WOULD MISFIRE, IDLE LOW, AND REV IRREGULAR THEN FINALLY DIE. I TOOK EVERYTHING APART AND RE PLUMPBED ALL THE VACUUM LINES. I NOTICED THAT ONE OF MY LINES HAD CAME OFF DURING THE INSTALLATION. I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THE LINE IS CALLED, I THINK ITS THE OIL RETURN LINE. BUT ITS RUNS FROM THAT BLACK PUMP(the pump that you have to relocate and re-plumb) TO THE ENGINE BLOCK. AFTER I PUT EVERYTHING BACK TOGETHER IT STARTED AND ACTUALLY IDLED ON ITS OWN. THE IDLE WAS STILL ABNORMALLY LOW, BUT IT DROVE FINE, THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS IT WOULD IDLE EXTREMELY LOW ON COLD STARTS, BUT SLOWLY IT HAS IMPROVED AND IT IS BACK TO NORMAL. THE WHOLE THING SCARED ME SO MUCH, THAT I JUST BOUGHT THE KIT FROM M3 MOTORWERKS FOR $350.

[Poke2120]

Interesting, thanks for posting man. I will send this over to Richard.

Poke

[olsen185]

poke2120

This is from the midnightautoworks.com install instructions:
"Next up is the Throttle body. Since the OBDI and OBDII gaskets are used in a different manner you will need two gaskets. Take a razor blade to one of the gasket and cut it down the center so you now have two rings. Place one half of the gasket in the manifold and the other half in the throttle body. Take the other full gasket and place it between the throttle body and the intake and bolt the throttle body on."

This has to be done otherwise the throttle body will not seal against the manifold. My 328 ran rough at first also, but after a few days it began to idle normally.

You need two of #4 link

Erik

[Poke2120]

poke2120

This is from the midnightautoworks.com install instructions:
"Next up is the Throttle body. Since the OBDI and OBDII gaskets are used in a different manner you will need two gaskets. Take a razor blade to one of the gasket and cut it down the center so you now have two rings. Place one half of the gasket in the manifold and the other half in the throttle body. Take the other full gasket and place it between the throttle body and the intake and bolt the throttle body on."

This has to be done otherwise the throttle body will not seal against the manifold. My 328 ran rough at first also, but after a few days it began to idle normally.

You need two of #4 link

Erik

Holy shit. Well you're not going to believe this but... ok well we were going off of the Team BAR's (by John Doby) DIY write-up and not Midnightautowerks. Richard just so happened to be outside working on it when I got your post and ran outside to tell him. We called John since he's local and asked him if cutting the 2nd orange ring was necessary, he said he must have forgoten to put it in his write-up.

Anyway, thanks to Erik pointing out this orange ring issue the problem is now solved. THANK YOU SO MUCH

Poke

[STEVE36]

Congrats.

[olsen185]

happy to help. now go out and feel the strong pull all the way to redline!!! you will be smiling for days!!!

Erik

[LWRNCE]

The car goes through adaptation... It takes time to learn what has changed and when it changes what needs to be changed it then runs good.