528i touring clutch zeroed - in need

[rapnel]

Hello,

Apologies in advance for what I know must be a duplicated ad nauseam subject but.. I lost the clutch on the e39 and I have less than 24 hours to nail one down and get it shipped so that most honorable indy can have it in time.

I do not want the sachs clutch kit (an option but don't want), a new flywheel is highly probably in order (approaching 180k and no known clutch job within last 70k or so and no info prior) and the cdv will be deleted regardless.

I had been doing some preparatory research on a replacement but had yet to nail anything down.

I had been thinking I was going the UUC route and I'm basically still there but thought it would be wise to ask for insight and opinions across the board.

So, a UUC kit, a JB flywheel with another mfg's clutch kit or ???

I just saw some gripforce/f1 kits but the price scares me (seems too low but haven't researched these at all yet) and I'm actually finding it difficult to find 528i aftermarket clutch components much less full kits with flywheels.

If you had to put a clutch in and would prefer less than a grand on parts what would the options be?

The rig is a 2000 528i with just shy of 180k and I'd like to see it give my e34 a challenge which is at 260k and needs an oil change.

[pleiades]

Partsgeek.com still has the best pricing I've seen on the 99/00 528 clutches and flywheels.

Pretty sure their warehouse for these is near LA though, so I don't know how fast you can get them to deliver to you.

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/200...lutch_kit.html

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/200.../flywheel.html

The LuK kits are the same as originals in your car. The flywheel comes with 8 bolts, the clutch kit comes with pilot bearing, throw-out bearing, clutch disc and pressure plate.

[rapnel]

Thanks man. That is a pretty good price. This just might be worth sucking it up and keeping things the way they are. I was hoping to get a crisper setup though, perhaps after deleting the cdv it would feel a little bit better.

Thanks again.\r

Now entertaining the F1 stage 1 or 2 with a sachs throwout bearing. The price is about a nickel shy of the oem kit above and the reviews (specific to bmw installs) seem about doable. hm....

[rapnel]

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Short update: I went with the gripforce stage 2 kit, sachs throwout and a new guibo flex disc. Install went well ("perfect" is how he put it) but we lost the transmission. [ http://http://forums.bimmerforums.co...2#post24806092 ]. Fused the new clutch disc to the tranny. New one en-route. Replacement transmission at the ready.

So far these gripforce folks are being rated with - Indy says : "nice clutch kit" though I have yet to tell him the cost and his test drive ... shall we say ... failed. I had to acquire another clutch disc so I dropped Gripforce a line and they were very helpful and I've another on the way lickety-split. I had to pay for it but it's not like it was super pricey and not even close to a product fault.

so F1: Gripforce price, service and quality : A+/A-/B+ so far - though my B+ on quality is solely based upon the correctness of fit and observed quality. I'll probably post a short review after several hundred miles and/or in the event of badness. So, until then - thanks for those that helped (on the clutch/tranny sitch) and if it slips fix it, soon.
\r

[rapnel]

Another short Update: 21st of August - and we wait...

Gripforce - I highly recommend that you do not approach this vendor for any product.

[rapnel]

A little update on the Gripforce F1 Stage 2 clutch and flywheel kit with a bonus question at the bottom.

OK, it's been several thousand miles, maybe more like 10+, and apart from the interaction with their customer service (gf/f1) upon the initial acquisition fiasco the clutch was nice.

The characteristics included a much more crisp and a pretty comfortable engagement point just shy of midway. The flywheel weight loss was, by far, the best feature. Very advantageous when requesting a quicker start - you might say it was barely preventable - quick starts that is.

You may have noted I said "was".

It goes a little like this - son took mother on a permit drive to grandma's (it's his mothers car more oft than not as I am much more partial to my e34 530.) It's about a 15 mile drive 12 of it highway. Apparently at stoplight number 2, a slight uphill intersection, he missed first gear and got a third gear start. Because the clutch is a tense one and gets a bit jumpy on the start when you're not paying attention (or familiar) mom was probably not in tune with what must have been a pretty high revving smooth start. The next morning I took the vehicle to work, sorry, attempted to take the vehicle to work (e34 taking a winter issues nap). Turns out that my very nice clutch yesterday now has a tippy top engagement and is slipping profoundly at 3k. I turned back homeward as soon as I could. I can't get up past 3k until I hit freeway on the way out so the turnaround point was further away than I'd would've liked.

The clutch is done. Done, done.

Granted, it definitely took a hit but I'm not quite sure that that single run-in drive-by should have been a clutch killer. By all accounts before that morning I was thinking about posting a review update for the kit with a good level of satisfaction. I'm afraid your typical break-in period forgot about "-in" part.

Bonus Question, two parts:

Can I put a LuK/Sachs disc and pressure plate back in without swapping the beastly DMF back in?

Second, I may have a spare F1 disc if it can be found, what are the chances of the F1 pressure plate currently installed being impaired beyond reason?

I really don't think I want to purchase another F1 clutch combo but I will suck it up and do so if it's the quickest and cheapest route to a functional vehicle.

That's it. I don't know whether I should be horrified, mystified or petrified.

For threadiquette I'm going to post the questions in a new thread\r

[jase007]

Can I put a LuK/Sachs disc and pressure plate back in without swapping the beastly DMF back in?

To be clear:

1. you have an aftermarket, lightened, single mass flywheel in there now?
2. you want to install a luk/sachs (SAC - self adjusting clutch) self-adjusting pressure plate and flywheel on a non-OEM single mass flywheel? (SMF)

My first thought would be no.

The SAC (pressure plate and flywheel) are machined/designed to mate to the surface of an OEM DMF (overall height, deck height, contact surface height/width, etc...).

Note that the aftermarket UUC SMF, sprung-hubbed clutch disc and non-self-adjusting pressure plate are a specific combo that work together. UUC did the homework/engineering.

I do not know what gripforce "combines" to make their SMF, non-self-adjusting pressure plate and sprung-hubbed clutch disc all work together.

When I replaced the DMF, SAC pressure plate and disc in my '00 528iT, I used all LUK parts (same as OEM) and haven't had a problem in 2-3 years and ~ 40k miles.

Note: (Do the pivot pin, spring, transmission guide tube, rear main seal, clutch slave cylinder, trans input & selector shaft seals (if keeping trans), selector shaft bushings/washers, etc... while you are in there.)

Good luck.

[rapnel]

1. Yes, lighter SMF is currently installed.

2. Almost. This is what is currently installed: http://gripforce.com/f1-stage-2-clut...-5l-2-8l-3-0l/ . Their pressure plate is self-adjusting if you go to the link.

This is a partsgeek page that lists, as far as I can tell from the notes, one non-self-adjusting and one self-adjusting kit (LuK and SACHS respectively) option: http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/200...lutch_kit.html

My thinking was that I can put in the LuK clutch.

I spoke to the guy that does my work after I posted and he's going to try to dig out my spare disc but if he can't find it he seems to think that I can install the LuK and mate with my current flywheel.

[ibz150]

hi. please read the kevlar description uuc put http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/clutch/. i was reading couple of reviews and some people went with http://gripforce.com/gripforce-oe-cl...oupe-roadster/, so not too light of a flywheel and oe clutch, they also changed the transmission fluid ot to redline xxxx (sorry i dont remember the specs) to reduce chatter. My clutch started to slip too and im on a budget. good luck and look forward to your update.

[rapnel]

I'd probably recommend you go stock. or, if they're out yet, try the valeo smf replacement kit (not in stock when I needed it or I definitely would've gone that route over the second gripforce I dropped in). I spoke with uuc during part two of my crisis and they didn't seem to have one ready to roll into a 528. stock, valeo or a higher quality/trusted aftermarket.

- - - Updated - - -

This is the first gripforce after a third gear start. I put another gripforce in for two reasons: I could get it in-hand the quickest and, as a hunch, I wanted another flywheel in-hand and not have to worry about joinery issues. (had UUC said 'no worries' on the pressure plate fitment to the gripforce flywheel I would've gone that route and, as it happens, that would've been the wrong route to go.)

Note the crumbling particles on the disk. That was on both sides and was basically flaking off. Though surfacing the flywheel could have been a viable option it would not have been appropriate in this case as you can see from the heat marks on it she was likely warped and that's not a position I wanted to be in after all this so I'm *really* glad I got another full kit ready for the work.


clutchToastWithJam.jpg

Having said that the car is definitely more fun, for me, off of the stock clutch. It's a tougher drive but better if you don't mind the extra feistyness. But I'm still in a position of knowing, without a doubt, that I'm not sitting on very good parts.

[ibz150]

thank you, I found this on the uuc "clutches description" "

organic
CHARACTERISTICS	Metal-fiber woven into "organic" (actually CF aramid with other materials), original-equipment style. Known for smooth engagement, long life, broad operating temperature, minimal-to-no break in period. Will take hard use, somewhat intolerant of repeated abuse (will overheat). Will return to almost full operational condition if overheated. Material is dark brown or black with visible metal fibers.
USE	Street-driven cars up to 400hp, auto-x and track use.
kevlar
CHARACTERISTICS	A high-durability material more resistant to hard use. Engagement is similar to organic, but may glaze slightly in stop-and-go traffic, resulting in slippage until worn clean when used hard again. Higher temp range in general, but can be ruined from overheating - will not return to original characteristics if "cooked". Has a break-in period of 500-1000 miles during which slippage may occur. Care must be taken during this period not to overheat from excessive slipping. Material is uniform yellow/green and may look slightly fuzzy when new.
USE	Street-driven track cars up to 500hp, auto-x and heavy track use. Will take hard use, intolerant of abuse (will overheat and not recover completely). Due to the unforgiving nature of Kevlar, it is not recommended for street cars, especially those that see frequent stop-and-go traffic which will cause surface glazing of the clutch."

which new kit did you buy.

[rapnel]

http://gripforce.com/f1-stage-2-clut...-5l-2-8l-3-0l/

[ibz150]

so would you say the clutch is holding up well. I'm still getting ready to do this. i'm torn between smf or dmf and whom to go with or buy from.