OT: But always on topic

**tomscat1** · 03-12-2011, 09:44 AM

I hate to be that guy, but... here we go again. It happens. Item from today's local paper.

Waterford — A 21-year-old man was killed Friday afternoon after the car he was working on in a home garage fell on top of him, according to police and emergency responders.
The injured person was extricated from under the car by firefighters from the...

http://theday.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=JV0RQIJQUHW1&issue=199520 11031200000000001001&article=e295a1c6-9afc-44bc-bee9-d053389c46ce

Stay safe, fellas. Always, always use redundant safety systems whenever you are under the car. Please.

**dblsprt68** · 03-12-2011, 09:49 AM

I know, I know..... I do MOST of the time.

I should ALL of the time. I've got two kids now!

**jrcook320** · 03-12-2011, 11:05 AM

indeed. You can't be too safe. No amount of comfort, convenience, or time savings is worth your life.

**gsumzzz** · 03-12-2011, 11:38 AM

always double check those jack stands EVERY time before you climb under! i wanna be the oldest shadetree mechanic on earth. like to see everybody around to give me advice! good post. rip to the young man lost.

**hercfe** · 03-12-2011, 01:57 PM

That's sad. I've had about half the weight of a 96 Intrepid on me before. The front jackstands went straight through the framerails(rusted-little did I know). I was doing bottom end work while my buddy Don was doing the rear wheel cylinders on our buddy's car. Don nearly had a heart attack when the car fell on me. Luckily the rear jackstands held and the car was high enough from them that I wasn't pinned. Scary, but I got out, finished my beer, jacked the car back up, and finished torquing the oil pan. It never did drive straight after that day. Just like gsum said, check, check, and double check that jackstands EVERY time, just in case.

**epmedia** · 03-12-2011, 01:59 PM

I once had a nightmare about a car falling on me, freaked my shit.
ALWAYS double/tripple up on safety, and chock the wheels.
DO NOT rely on a hydraulic jack, it is designed ONLY to lift the car, not to hold it.

Yea - gsumzzz, that's an excellent point, reminds me of yesterday; make certain the stand(s) are tight and have not shifted while manuevering other parts of the car.

jackstands
jackstands
jackstands
wheel chocks
wheel chocks
wheel chocks
double check
double check
double check

Especially if the earth shakes

If I was sloppy when that 7.3 hit socal last year, I'd been a gonner...

**lightsmith** · 03-12-2011, 09:30 PM

You were under a car during an earthquake? That doesn't help. I'm very squimish about laying underneath my car. I'm doing everything right, redundant jack stands, wheel chocks, a block of wood thicker than I am next to where I'm working but I am uncomfortable every second I'm under there. A fear of tight spaces. A few years back I worked in a winery as a barrel monkey. Required to climb a stack of 10 barrels, about 20 plus feet, hanging onto the rack with a filler wand in the other hand. I was afraid of heights. I was trained and very alert but couldn't shake the vertigo. On the 3rd day I was about half way up the stack and the feeling just lifted and never came back. I'm hoping that the same thing will happen if I persist beneath the belly of the beast.

**epmedia** · 03-12-2011, 10:56 PM

I was under one of the cars 2 days before the earthquake, I was just making a point

I was here, on the bfc when it hit, listening to kgb on the radio, and sniffing the turkey in the oven

But yea - scary thought, don't wish to experience that...

**Jester323** · 03-13-2011, 12:45 AM

Good grief. I'm always paranoid about jackstands & check them repeatedly, but the thought of an earthquake while under a car... Now paranoid to a new level...

**epmedia** · 03-13-2011, 01:10 AM

I was lucky to be 2 days ahead of it, I suppose?
I was comfy to take a nap under the car before the 7.3, but not anymore!

I started using 18" rounds of wood for the big jobs after that:

**FranzE21** · 03-13-2011, 01:31 AM

I've never considered that. Glad we don't get quakes in Australia.

**frosty320i** · 03-13-2011, 03:42 PM

It's not always clear to me where the best jacking points are on an e21.
I've been placing jack stands under what appears to be a frame rail. It's about a foot inside past where the trunk jack fits in its pocket under the door. The jack stand cradles it nicely but it does seem kind of soft being hollow tubestock.
The Haynes manual is vague to me saying only to place jack stands under "bodyframe members".
Anybody out there have actual photographs of the appropriate bodyframe members.
I didn't see anything in the FAQ .

**tomscat1** · 03-14-2011, 08:08 AM

Front page followup article about the young man killed under his car.

Ready for this? Yes, he was working under his BMW. Changing the oil.... jack failed.

Very sad, sounds like he was a great kid, too.

Article rank
14 Mar 2011
The Day
By JEFFREY A. JOHNSON
Day Staff Writer
Waterford man died doing what he loved most

Garage accident victim’s family recalls his love of fixing cars
Waterford— Ask Fred Klorczyk to share the passions of his son, Christian, and he takes you to the garage.
Walking down a few steps, Klorczyk stops in front of a huge, black Craftsman toolbox. Pulling out a few drawers, he uncovers tools for every task imaginable.
Screwdrivers. Crescent wrenches. Mallets. All organized perfectly. All the “Private Property of Christian R. Klorczyk, Hisself,” as noted by the toolbox’s personalized inscription.
The rest of the garage is kept in similar fashion, with cans of WD-40, bottles of transmission fluid and car parts all lined neatly on shelves within arm’s reach.
“ This is him,” Klorczyk said of his son on Sunday afternoon. “This isn’t my other sons. This is him.”
Indeed, the care Christian Klorczyk showed in working on cars and other projects will be one thing his friends and family remember most about him.
The 21-year-old died Friday after a BMW he was working on collapsed on him in the family garage. Fred Klorczyk said that a floor jack likely failed while his son was under the car changing the oil.
Christian, a Waterford High School graduate, was a senior at the University of Connecticut and was studying finance. A dean’sliststudent, accordingto his parents, Christian alsohada passion for snowboarding and race cars— and a knack for sarcasm and well-timed jokes.

He was usually smiling, his best friend, Jordan Ransom, said Sunday. And Ransom learned firsthand that he could count on Christian.
When Ransom lost his spleen in a snowboarding accident in Colorado two years ago, it was Christian and his older brother, Frederick, who helped keep Ransom, 21, in high spirits through an emergency surgical procedure and a weeklong recovery.
“You could tell every time you ran into him that he was such a positive person. He’s never really been one to get down about too much,” said Ransom, also a UConn student. “He’s always looking at the brighter side of things. He’s a great person to be around every day.”
Lynne Klorczyk, Christian’s mother and a Waterford High School teacher, recounted a story Sunday in which Christian and his brothers, Frederick and Parker, now 18, set up a makeshift toll booth in front of a Nordstrom in a mall. Theboys solicited patrons for $1 bills.
Similar mischief was commonplace for the three boys, although they were forced to grow up ahead of schedule, according to their father. About eight years ago, Fred Klorczyk, an engineer who is now group vice president at MISTRAS Group, said he underwent a high-risk procedure to correct a degenerative disc disease.
Before and after the surgery, his sons were left to take on responsibilities around the house. That left Christian as the family handyman.
“All I can say is, he became a man. He didn’t cause problems,” Fred Klorczyk said.
Christian was also a member of the Zeta Beta Tau fraternity at UConn and worked in London for a hedge fund two years ago. He decided against attending law school recently, his father said, and was considering his postgraduation career options.
His older brother said that he could envision Christian finding a way to stay involved with cars or snowboarding. Frederick Klorczyk added that he’ll always remember his brother’s upbeat disposition.

“Really his smile. That’swho he was,” Frederick Klorczyk said. “He was always happy.” jeff.johnson@theday.com

**gsumzzz** · 03-14-2011, 09:04 AM

i am sure if Christian was here now, he would tell all of us to put SAFETY FIRST before picking up a tool. i hear you Christian! go with GOD.

**epmedia** · 03-14-2011, 06:58 PM

As I said earlier:
DO NOT rely on a hydraulic jack, it is designed ONLY to lift the car, not to hold it.

All my hydraulic jacks leak down...

Originally Posted by frosty320i

It's not always clear to me where the best jacking points are on an e21.
I've been placing jack stands under what appears to be a frame rail. It's about a foot inside past where the trunk jack fits in its pocket under the door. The jack stand cradles it nicely but it does seem kind of soft being hollow tubestock.
The Haynes manual is vague to me saying only to place jack stands under "bodyframe members".
Anybody out there have actual photographs of the appropriate bodyframe members.
I didn't see anything in the FAQ .

There is no definitive answer, every situation is different.
All I can say is that the frame under the doors is not super strong.

**FJKII** · 03-23-2011, 05:16 PM

Good Day,

I feel that I must respond to this post for the sake of accuracy, the honor of my son and family name and also to attempt to save other lives.

Lynne and I are the parents of three sons, Frederick III, Christian, Parker and our "adopted sons", his twin brother Jordan, Dimitri and Dan - all "carguys".

As stated in the article....

"The 21-year-old died Friday after a BMW he was working on collapsed on him in the family garage. Fred Klorczyk said that a floor jack likely failed while his son (Christian) was under the car changing the oil."

Jeff Johnson did a great job on the article on our son, brother and friend and I thank him for that. Jeff was a true gentleman who talked to us for hours in our darkest times to get an accurate depiction of our son and family. However, and unfortunately we do not have it on tape, nor is Jeff a "gearhead" and doesn't really understand jacks, jackstands and multiple layers of safety. I never said, nor is it accurate to say "that a floor jack likely failed..."

Christian is an experienced mechanic who started working on cars and following Formula 1 when he was a small child. He and our whole family witnessed Ayrton "Magic" Senna die at Tamburello 15 years ago. Yes, Christian was only six at the time and he would wake all of us up at 6:30AM to watch the pre-race show in Italy on satellite.

Christian is a true car guy as are his brothers and friends. My business is in the most safety conscious market in the world - nuclear boats, nuclear ships and nuclear power plants. That mentality is my life - has been since I was a kid engineer out of school. Ask any of my employees how I feel about safety. They have the right to stop any job and call me at anytime as no one is to ever get injured on our jobsites. This naturally carried over to my homelife. By the way, my father was a large machine mechanic by trade and a "gearhead" by avocation. No one would use the wrong tools - we have them all and all are of quality. No one in my garage or driveway would ever go under a car with only a jack of any kind holding it up. The jack elevates the car, jackstands support at proper points while working underneath and the jack is removed to improve accessibility. Period. Block the wheels if necessary. Emergency brake on. Car in gear. A lift would be better but we just were not at that point in our lives yet.

Christian had the right front tire off so that he could shine his double halogen lights on the work area and see clearly. He also had that tire/wheel under the right front rotor as an extra measure of safety as is a habit of ours when possible. He had four ton Craftsman jackstands in use. Two were just bought at Christmas when I sent him to buy a new jack since ours is getting to be five years old. Hydraulic cylinders and seals degrade over time. He didn't buy the jack since he felt what Sears, etc., had were junk so he bought more four ton stands but without safety pins. I did not realize there were redundant safety stands until... it was too late.

Christian was using my father's creeper for the first time. He found the creeper when cleaning the garage over Christmas. When he applied torque to the ratchet handle to break the plug loose, he experienced the law of physics of "equal and opposite reaction". As the plug broke loose, the creeper did also in a direction opposite to the torque vector Christian applied. Some part of Christian's body, some part of the creeper, the mallet beside him, something - we have no video, just supposition and theory... tripped the right front jackstand lever inadvertantly from the underside and a ton of the BMW E46 3 series xi crushed his chest and his right cheekbone. He never took, or could even attempt to take a second breath. Death was immediate and painless. If I were beside him at the time this occurred I could have done nothing to save him. This has been verified by five friends of mine who are doctors. I used the floorjack Christian used to elevate the car to get the car off of him. It was parallel to the car just as he would place it when he removed it from the jackpoint. I had to engage the cylinder with clockwise rotation which tells me Christian removed it per proper procedure. I had the jack underneath and car off him in seconds. Jackstands were under before I crawled from under the valance while Lynne called 911. Lynne came under with me from the wheelwell and had a pulse on his neck. She said he it was strong. I was doing chest compressions and trying to get a verbal response until the EMTs got there. When I heard LIFESTAR waved off over the EMT radios I had a sick, sick feeling.

A critical factor, in my professional engineering opinion, is that the creeper raised his body 3.5" higher than it would have been if he would have been working on the concrete as he was used to. It also raised his head 4.5" higher as there is a foam pillow headrest. Both creeper caster wheels at the head position were sheared from the creeper. I can only wonder that if Christian did not use the creeper would he have had the jackstands that high, would the energy at 9.8 m/sec squared have been decreased to a minimum so that if the freak accident happened he would have been injured less, would the extra measure of the tire under the rotor have saved his life without the extra creeper height, would he be alive today? Only God knows.

Christian is a fine, fine man who was known for his smile, intelligence, passion and willingness to help anyone at anytime... just like all of his brothers and "adopted brothers". The five of them and myself were his pall bearers. He would have it no other way. We were that close.

Also, to my fellow "carguys" and "gearheads", please learn from this tragedy. Scrap your cheapo jackstands... do your research, find the best jackstands there are, use the secondary and tertiary safety factors, do not fall to the temptation of human nature and operator error - use the extra safety factors! It may save your life, or maybe the life of you son. Had I would have known such Christian would be with us today.

Lastly, if you want to drive fast please do not do it on the road. Racetracks are readily available for that adrenaline rush we all crave. Track days with instructors are cheap and you are protected far more than

Godspeed Christian! May you be driving God's Veyron for him.

Please feel free to cut and past this article anywhere you think it may prove valuable to fellow "carguys". I pray that none of you ever suffer such a tragedy. May God Bless you all.

Frederick J. Klorczyk, Jr.
Waterford, CT
fjk143@aol.com

**Tom D** · 03-23-2011, 05:56 PM

Frederick,

as a father and a car guy, i feel for you and your family. may your son rest in peace.

tom

**tomscat1** · 03-23-2011, 06:54 PM

Amen.

As the father of two grown sons, I can only imagine the sorrow and pain you and your family have experienced the past two weeks. Words fail to capture the depth of sadness we feel at your loss. Please accept my sincere and heartfelt condolences. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us in your beautiful letter.
I posted my original post in several other forums, and, based on some of the responses received, I know Christian's story has been read around the world. Many people now know what a great kid he was, and he may have even saved a life. I know that can in no way make up for his loss, but I hope it is some small consolation to you.
God be with you.

Tom
Niantic

**epmedia** · 03-23-2011, 07:11 PM

Hi Frederick J. Klorczyk, Jr.
I cannot imagine the loss of a son, I have 2 of my own that work on their cars too.
God be with your family, and your lost son RIP.
My heart goes out, tears too...

This forum gets searched by bots daily, the word is spread globally.

**tomscat1** · 03-25-2011, 06:36 PM

This was a post by "potenza" in another forum, in response to Frederick K's post. The pics are worth looking at.... Homemade safety stands. Look pretty good to me. What do you guys think?

"My condolences for your loss. An honorable man, BMW enthusiast and F1 fan that enjoys working on and racing cars and a gun enthusiast... sounds very much like myself.

I lost a friend working under jack-stands last year. It's a heart-breaking experience. We don't really know what happened, but it was the same scenario that the car was on jack stands and something happened to make the car fall.

For me, it put an overwhelming exclimation on safety in the garage. I don't trust jack stands anymore and if I have to use them I have redundancy beyond just a wheel under the car. I ended up building these for anything that doesn't require wheel removal:"

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...i/IMG_0533.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...i/IMG_0529.jpg

**sbcrockett** · 03-25-2011, 06:43 PM

awesome wheel blocks. gonna build some soon.

**FJKII** · 03-27-2011, 01:12 PM

until I design my own sailor proof stand... of course, the chosen support point is equally important as well... take a look at these. Keep in mind, a single ratchet six ton stand killed my son, and he had two in place plus a tire/wheel assembly under the rotor on the side the stand dropped. Don't save money on safety!!!

Link: Amazon.com: jack stands: Automotive

See items 4, 7, 11, 50, (60, 63 - kinda like the bases on these and distribution of weight but need to see the steel specs), 67 and 103. Personally, I am liking the pin only stands now as human performance does not enter into the equation. You don't pin it, it doesn't work. The double safety ratchet/pin design requires human performance to put the pin in. Without it, what do you have? A ratchet stand.

Also, I was taught as an engineer that you do your calcs and multiply by seven for safety and certainty. Hence, my suggestion you look at high tonnage capacity stands.

It is a life afterall - maybe yours - put a price on it. To have my son back I'd liquidate all I have and move to a tent.

Frederick Klorczyk, Jr.

**conv440** · 03-27-2011, 02:16 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. I like the design on number 50 too. Not inexpensive but I will make getting safe stands a priority over the next speed part purchase. I've been pretty lazy about safety recently, frequently going under the car with only the jack holding it up, but no more. It's terrible that often a tragedy is the only thing that gets people's attention. For what it's worth, you have forced me to rethink what's important (my wife and kids over getting a job done more quickly) and I will be changing my poor behavior every time I go under my vehicles.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how to use jack stands on the pinch weld lift points on BMWs? I've used a block of wood with a groove cut into it so it lifts from the bottom of the rocker but stays locked in place on the pinch weld seam. The wood is not a great choice because it's small and not structurally sound. A set of grooved steel blocks would be ideal.

**tomscat1** · 03-28-2011, 03:29 PM

I inherited a set of steel ramps, but I have never used them. Those ramps, along with a set of 'potenza's" homemade wood wheel supports, and a set of sturdy jack stands with safety pins are looking pretty attractive at this point. Ratchet-type jack stands had always seemed pretty safe, but the potential for some sort of accidental contact with the release lever .... and its consequences .... never occurred to me as a possibility.

Now I can't get it out of my head. Which is probably a good thing. It could happen.

For example, I had usually positioned the release lever for my convenience when I was ready to remove the stand.... not thinking of positioning it to avoid any inadvertent contact. No more.

**AquilaBMW** · 03-29-2011, 07:53 PM

I saw this thread posted somewhere else, I felt I should respond with at least my condolences to the Klorczyk Family and to Frederick. I don't know that there are words enough to overcome your loss and pain, but I wish you all the best and offer my sincere sympathies.

To Christian - you left your mark, rest in peace.

Thread: OT: But always on topic

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OT: But always on topic

Jacking points ??

I am Christian Klorczyk's father

Jackstand suggestions...

Sincere Condolences to Mr. Klorczyk's and the Family

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