S54 swap into E36/E30

[M3 Euro LTW]

I know a lot of people are excited about the opportunity to do this transplant and take advantage of new technology on the engine side, and lighter and more affordable chassis on the car side.

I'm curious to hear from BFC members that are reading in this transplant forum and are true enthusiasts that would tackle the bulk of such a project on their own, if they would prefer to retain the DBW electronic throttle controls, or, prefer to delete that and use an older fashion throttle cable.

For the purpose of responding..... assume there is no difference in cost, and neither would present a significant hardship in labor.

So... basically,

1) install a E-throttle gas pedal of some kind or convert existing gas pedal to run the E-throttle

VS

2) delete the motor from the side of the S54, and replace it with an assembly of some sort that enables an old fashion throttle cable to be used instead.

Both options require some level of mechanical work. Ignore for the moment the electrical side of things and the cost, and the specifics of actually getting either done. Assume either would be "easy"... this is more of a bias/feeling sort of question....

Thanks... and I hope I've not broken any forum rules by asking this question.

[themadrussian]

I'm guessing that most people would prefer to eliminate the drive-by-wire for the "superior" response from a normal throttle cable.

Are you going into S54 swaps, Alex? I hope you're still bringing Euro motors over...

[MauiM3Mania]

My hunch is that most 'drivers' do not want a computer between their right foot and the six pack of throttle bodies.

FWIW.

[Bimmerman535i]

Personally, I would prefer a throttle by physical mechanical wire system, as it is one less thing to fail.

Alex, are you developing something for E30/6 S54 swappers? I was counting on a Euro engine in the future...but...S54 swap....hm.

[Moreboost356]

I would be incredibly interested in this.

[M3 Euro LTW]

I'm in love with, and passionate about the two Euro motors, the S50B30 and the S50B32.

The really wonderful thing about them is that they literally drop right into our E36 chassis cars, 95 with almost no wire changes, and earlier with minimal change to accomodate EWS. (a bit more work into E30's)

But, there is a problem with both. As Enthusiasts, one of the first questions guys (ok, gals too Kim) ask is: What can I do to make more power?

Coming soon, a literal P&P SEM device, harness adapter and SEM computer that will run either engine without cutting wires, and even using the stock HFM for reliability. It is a very powerful unit, and I intend for the conversion harness to be as close to Mil-spec as humanly possible. Then you can add cams, headers bump compression and change to CF intake and just dyno tune it yourself. I intend to build up a library of code, to offer affordable tunes for common upgrades like Schricks, CF intakes, Race HFMS, headers etc...Selling those CHEAPLY means maybe not even going to the dyno. If my customers work with me, we can have shareware at some level for new tunes.

Also, I'm working very hard on a similar device for the S54, but for easy transplant into an E36 or E30 there are other considerations that are not a problem with the S50BX series of engines. For example retaining diagnostic plug for ABS codes...(if nothing else).

So, yes, but I have a newborn at home too, just 8 weeks, and a wife I treasure that I can't risk losing over the hobby... but I really want this to come to life. I'm deeply committed financially, there is an S54 on the way to me, $$ spent on tools and hours already on the research. There will be some innovative items built into the S54 harness that I've not seen out there, that will really make it easy to add on FI to them that I don't think the average tuner, even an established DTA team will know about, or have at hand. While I'm sure someone will try and reverse engineer this kit, I aim to make it so affordable, no one is inclined... they just buy it, and enjoy it!

DBW is one thing I wanted feedback on to get a sense of what people would want. I'm not yet committed eitherway, but leaning to a throttle cable at first. I'm trying hard to poll people who've bought the VAC parts to see if they're happy or not.

[cfn101788]

They already make a kit to eliminate the electronic throttle I cant remember where exactly I saw it at but it was one of the major BMW websites like bimmerworld or VAC motorsports.

EDIT: hear it is, type in "E46 Throttle" in the search box. it should be the first item on the list

http://store.nexternal.com/shared/St...t=products.asp

Originally Posted by M3 Euro LTW

I know a lot of people are excited about the opportunity to do this transplant and take advantage of new technology on the engine side, and lighter and more affordable chassis on the car side.

I'm curious to hear from BFC members that are reading in this transplant forum and are true enthusiasts that would tackle the bulk of such a project on their own, if they would prefer to retain the DBW electronic throttle controls, or, prefer to delete that and use an older fashion throttle cable.

For the purpose of responding..... assume there is no difference in cost, and neither would present a significant hardship in labor.

So... basically,

1) install a E-throttle gas pedal of some kind or convert existing gas pedal to run the E-throttle

VS

2) delete the motor from the side of the S54, and replace it with an assembly of some sort that enables an old fashion throttle cable to be used instead.

Both options require some level of mechanical work. Ignore for the moment the electrical side of things and the cost, and the specifics of actually getting either done. Assume either would be "easy"... this is more of a bias/feeling sort of question....

Thanks... and I hope I've not broken any forum rules by asking this question.

[VictoryGarland]

One vote for cable throttle.

[M3glfman]

Waiting to see what you come up with

[M3 Euro LTW]

Yeah me too!

Trying to make Putnam DE event locally this weekend. Have taken a crash course in Fiberglass work from my neighbor to repair a fender that ...well...needs it?

"crash course" was an interesting choice of words in retrospect now that I think about it.

When I get back from Putnam, will get on this in earnest. The S54 I bought should arrive today or tomorrow I hope, and when I bring it home from warehouse, I'll be dismounting a S50B32, and mounting the S54 on my test rig in the garage that lets me run X50 motors off a drag race fuel cell and basic electronics.... then I will start the conversion over.

Then the fun begins!

Alex.

[MisterM]

Love the imagination.

Subscribed!

[Bimmerman535i]

Very much subscribed! Cannot wait to see how this turns out, or the SEM for the S50B3x motors!

One question though: would either the SEM for the S50B3X or this still to be developed S54 kit retain vanos functionality? The way I understand the s54 swap issues is that it is possible to swap if you are willing to run standalone and lose the vanos, but if you want to keep vanos all kinds of issues crop up. I personally would be muuuch more interested in an S54 kit that keeps vanos, otherwise I've been planning on eventually buying an S50X motor from you.

[MR.E36i]

Originally Posted by Bimmerman535i

Very much subscribed! Cannot wait to see how this turns out, or the SEM for the S50B3x motors!

One question though: would either the SEM for the S50B3X or this still to be developed S54 kit retain vanos functionality? The way I understand the s54 swap issues is that it is possible to swap if you are willing to run standalone and lose the vanos, but if you want to keep vanos all kinds of issues crop up. I personally would be muuuch more interested in an S54 kit that keeps vanos, otherwise I've been planning on eventually buying an S50X motor from you.

the S54 swap kit is ready,

easy, faster , cheaper

[Bimmerman535i]

Originally Posted by MR.E36i

the S54 swap kit is ready,

easy, faster , cheaper

does it keep the vanos, retain stock driveability, and is it suitable for a daily driven street car that does lots of DEs and autocrosses? Do you have a link to this kit?

[MR.E36i]

Originally Posted by Bimmerman535i

does it keep the vanos, retain stock driveability, and is it suitable for a daily driven street car that does lots of DEs and autocrosses? Do you have a link to this kit?

Yes, Yes , Yes

no link yet as am still doing some last upadates
and it will be ready in the market Soon


Vanos working, drive by cable, part's available

[NicoyAKinG]

I would be interested in something like this... s54's are things of beauty.

[hoveringuy]

I'll chime in here...

I've been working on the DBW aspect of this for my M54. I have not yet seen an S54 throttle motor but my understanding is that it is different (in a good way) from the M54 electronic throttle body because it doesn't have a limp-home detent position. The M54 defaults to about 5 degrees open which has been a pain to develop around.

Electronic throttles can be extremely quick and accurate. My lab unit will cycle from fully closed to fully open quicker than you could ever stab the throttle.

Other benefits are that the gas pedal is buttery smooth with absolutely no mechanical drag on it. No bellcranks and such. It uses rotary Hall sensors that don't touch the moving components.

Also, the response curve can be changed. Do you want your pedal to more or less sensitive at higher throttle positions?

I'm just doing this to mount my TB back onto my M54 but I would love to try on an S54.

Properly designed electronics can be very reliable, but there is always the confidence factor!

www.seattlecircuit.com

[luv4myE36]

Originally Posted by MR.E36i

Yes, Yes , Yes

no link yet as am still doing some last upadates
and it will be ready in the market Soon


Vanos working, drive by cable, part's available

and a price?

and mr lipowich...any idea what we'd be looking at $-wise from your end as well?

[Bimmerman535i]

Alex, I went and poked around on your website a bit again. I noticed the new info on the SEM project, and I'm very anxious! Would this plug and play deal really matter between OBD versions? And retain full VANOS? I am excited.....

[xsport652]

Vote for Cable. This is very exciting and I can't wait for this to evolve

[99MPower]

whats up Alex, it's Calvin

can't wait to see how it all works out, and it was great talking "shop" this weekend at Putnam and see your race car...

S54 drop in kit in the e36 FTW

[theblue]

S54 would be a cool swap, but the whole project has to cost less than just putting an LS1 into the car for it to make sense.

[Bimmerman535i]

Originally Posted by theblue

S54 would be a cool swap, but the whole project has to cost less than just putting an LS1 into the car for it to make sense.

An ls1 swap, going by Vorshlag's prices, costs $4k in some parts in addition to about $3k+ in engine, transmission, and computers, plus about $2-3k in additional cost for fab work, confusion, breaking things, exhaust fabrication, fuel lines, and other assorted hidden costs. An ls1 swap is also not legal for racing in Club racing at any level or autocross at less than Prepared or Modified level. Given that, the S54 swap begins to make a lot more sense.

Cost is likely about the same, as engine and transmissions range from $4500 to $7000 based on what I've seen. Add another $1k for (cheaper as OEM BMW stuff bolts on) fabrication, swap parts, and then add however much Alex's kit costs, and you're about equal on costs.

LS1 is great for a street driven car or a no holds barred no budget in mind track car, but for the inbetween, the S54 and Euro S50 makes a lot of sense. It all depends on what the car will be used for.

[ejaz3739]

Thats cool news, cant wait to see the wiring harness.

[Modena NYC]

subscribed...i want this.