Sobering crap: Don't miss this thread ... VA speeding

[NoSoup4U]

I cut and pasted what Dustin wrote from the teckademics forum on DTM. This is no joke in VA. Before people say his lawyer sucked, I got him a DAMN good lawyer. This was not some young attorney, he had 20+ years of experience in fairfax county. The thing is, the ticket was for "racing." It's different for reckless and speeding. A "RACING" ticket in VA is considered much more severe than just reckless driving. You do not want a reckless ticket ... but, you REALLY DO NOT want a "racing" ticket ...

I initially was going to help Dustin out; but, after seeing the severity of the crime ... I decided to recommend hiring someone much more familiar with this area. I was confident that Dustin would get off based on what he told me ... however, I did not anticipate the officer lying. From what Dustin told me, I was positive the ticket would be thrown out ... however, obviously ... it was not ...

VA is no friggin' joke ... we all like to speed ... but keep it sensible. Keep it below 20 over .. 20+ = reckless and automatic 5 points IIRC ... if you get reckless, get an attorney to reduce it below 20 ... if you get a "racing" ticket ... prepare your bail before going into court ...

*******************************************
Just got out of jail.
Well I figured I'd tell the story before rumors start flying around.

I tried to fight a "Racing" ticket I got back in October in Fairfax County, Va. If anyone is familiar with Fairfax, it's the one of the worse counties to get a ticket in.

Here's the story:

I was traveling at 10pm on Rt.66 with a group of 8 cars. We pass by this cop sitting on the other side on the highway. We were going about 70-75mph. The speed limit is 55mph. The usual Teck cars were there: My MX6, Dado's M3, my brothers MR-2, a JDM turbo Integra, a turbo Civic, Mark's M Coupe, a few other cars and an bike. After we passed the cop, he pulled out and proceeded to chase after us. I never saw the cop but everyone else did. All I saw was a car come up my ass and then police lights. I immediately pulled over and the rest of the pack split. The cop asked me if I had be drinking that night and took my license and registration. He came back with a ticket for "Racing". He said that I have to appear in court and that we would make sure that I got the highest fine and he would make sure that I went to jail.

I hired a lawyer and went to court last Weds. (Feb. 4th). The cop told his side of story and lied so bad. He basically said that we were all racing and running cars off the road, flashing our lights to other "innocent" drivers on the road, and that we were passing cars on the shoulder. He said that I was pushing cars out of my way and riding on the shoulder. The judge agreed with him and found me guilty of "Racing". Punishment:

-1 year suspension of license.
-180 days in jail (166 suspended) I was handcuffed in court and taken to jail to serve 14 days.
- No fine.
-$1000.00 appeal bond.

I never imagined that I would get a punishment this harsh for something I was wrongly accused of. I was not racing. We were not racing. We were in a pack of custom cars with loud exhausts. My appeal date is scheduled in March and everyone there that night is going to testify on my behalf. I also had a court recorder take down everything the cop said.

Virginia is no joke. Here's some background on the "Racing" charge:

Reckless driving in Virginia is a serious criminal charge with possible ramifications to one's career, security clearance, and insurance costs._ Reckless driving is a Class 1 misdemeanor - in the same classification as a DWI charge._

As stated clearly in the Code of Virginia, the penalty parameters for reckless driving is up to one year in jail, and/or up to $2,500 in fines._ Reckless driving also carries the possibility of a suspension of driving privileges for up to 6 months.___

Every person convicted of reckless driving under the provisions of this article shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor._

A conviction for reckless driving carries with it six (-6) demerit points as assessed by the DMV in Virginia._ The courts in northern Virginia do not control the point issue and judges often state this at the beginning of the Court session._

If you are convicted of reckless driving and you have other convictions on your record including other reckless or speeding charges, you should seek the services of an attorney as there may be administrative action by the DMV upon your conviction._ Also, a person with other traffic offenses and/or a negative point rating of the DMV record are often sentenced more harshly than persons with a positive ratings._

Judges love to see drivers with a +5 ratings and often give these drivers lower fines upon conviction of the reckless driving charge if the facts are not egregious._ In Fairfax, Alexandria and Arlington, however, Judges usually will not take this action without a motion from either the defendant or defense counsel.__

§ 46.2-865. Racing; penalty.
Any person who engages in a race between two or more motor vehicles on the highways in the Commonwealth or on any driveway or premises of a church, school, recreational facility, or business property open to the public in the Commonwealth shall be guilty of reckless driving, unless authorized by the owner of the property or his agent. When any person is convicted of reckless driving under this section, in addition to any other penalties provided by law the driver's license of such person shall be suspended by the court for a period of not less than six months nor more than two years. In case of conviction the court shall order the surrender of the license to the court where it shall be disposed of in accordance with the provisions of § 46.2-398.

Reckless Driving is a very serious charge in Virginia._ It is a Class One misdemeanor - the same as DWI._ In addition to a fine of up to $2500 and up to a year in jail, those convicted of Reckless Driving may lose their licenses for up to six months._ All persons convicted of Reckless Driving are automatically assessed six points on their license by the DMV._ Even if the judge does not suspend your license, the DMV may very well do so._

Courts in Virginia - particularly Northern Virginia - are taking Reckless Driving very seriously these days, as the number of traffic fatalities from high speed accidents is on the rise._ It is a very good idea to hire an experienced attorney before going to court on a Reckless Driving charge.


Wish me luck in March. I will never speed in Va. again.

[robmarch]

is this supposed to be "don't miss this thread"?

this is, indeed, sobering stuff. remember the next time we all advocate stiffer penalties for street racing (deservedly) that lots of cops automatically assume stickered and winged cars travelling together are racing.

[John V]

I spend a fair amount of time in Fairfax county. They are pretty serious about speeding, though for good reason. I don't exactly drive slowly, and I've been passed by people driving a certain type of car (yeah, sometimes stereotypes exist for a reason) going WAY too fast, generally driving like idiots (hey, like on the Teck videos... whaddya know!). I guess what I'm saying is that I'm glad the authorities are cracking down on it.

We also don't know how Dustin (don't know him) reacted when the cop pulled him over. We don't know how fast he was going. We don't know how he was driving. And we don't know what the cop saw. There are two sides to every story. . . 'course if the cop lied, I agree it's BS.

[MACK1]

I just can't help but laugh at the whole post. If you've seen the videos and heard the audio, you can't really have any sympathy in this situation. Anyone who has ever driven through Virginia should already know the laws there are enforced, serious, and severe. And although his recollection of the incident differs from the Troopers, I find it hard to believe. Something about the Karma train strikes the mind here. : If you've ever been on one of the little "outings" you would know how fast things tend to get out of control.

Hopefully Teka? has a clause built in for picking up lawyers fees.

[NoSoup4U]

whoops ... yeah, it should be don't miss this thread, although I did have to take a piss. ...

The fact is though -- yes, we do not know all of the details, but, it seems in VA ... the courts could care less anymore. If you get a ticket, prepare to bend over.

[Mo®]

I'm on that stretch of 66 for 14 miles every day to and from work. I'll say one thing for Fairfax County cops. You can blow by them at 80mph and they wont even blink (or rather, they'll blow by you while you're doing 80mph) but if you're going fast enough to have them pull you over, it is YOUR ASS. I've never heard a "I got pulled over for speeding in VA" story that didn't end in an anal rape by "Bubba" in the county jail shower.

Oh, and if you're riding in HOV with only one person, it is totally YOUR ASS. I think that's all they're really looking for during rush hour.

[GreekTTCharlie]

Wow that sucks. I just got a ticket yesterday for 20 over (75 in a 55) on the Dulles Toll Road. Yeah yeah, I didn't know that place was a cop haven. I've never driven on that road before.

As I was headed to Ferrari of Washington, I took down my radar detector (right as I entered Virginia), and as SOON as I stepped on the brake, there the mother f*cker was. Nailed me.

20 over, as stated, is "reckless driving" in VA. The cop was sort-of cool, and took the "reckless driving" part off and reduced it to simply "speeding." Now I need to find out if points transfer (it was a non-interstate road) to Maryland. If they don't transfer, I'm paying that fine and saying "f*ck VA traffic court."

Argh. Sucks.

[Saint]

My question is this, what did the ticket he got in October(?) say on it? Was there a fine he could have paid at that point or did the ticket mandate he show up in court?

Also, if the cop was lying that blatantly, why didn't the attorney object, and why weren't some of Dustins friends there to testify on his behalf at that hearing? I have no doubt James got him a good lawyer, but it seems like there should have been something he could of done? :shrug

I'm sorry for Dustin having to go to jail, but what someone said about karma may just be true. Those videos show all kinds of stuff he could have gone to jail for, so for him to actually go to jail for not doing something; that would be pretty ironical...

-Saint

[NoSoup4U]

GreekTT -- 20+ is automatic reckless though, if he did not reduce the speed below 20 mph, e.g., 74 in a 55 mph zone, you are going to get hit with reckless. I believe the statute is 20 or over is considered reckless not just 20+... I would have to dig it up again though -- so, I could be wrong.

Saint - he had no choice but to goto court. If you read that post, the cop told him when he gave him the ticket, that the officer would make sure he got the highest fine and would also goto jail.

I was not the lawyer damnit!!! .... so, don't blame me

I was not there so I do not know the entire proceedings and how it went. It was recommended I do not show since it would look weird having a team of attorneys. The thing is, if the cop if blatantly lying ... how do you disprove it? Say Dustin's friends testified .. well, crap ... what's to say that they are telling the truth. Plus, the Judge knows that these individuals are "biased" because they are his friends.

I mean, that is the thing with officers ... they are presumed in court that they are telling the truth. I mean, I've seen the fairfax judge go, "So, you are telling me the officer is lying ..." <-- big mistake to say yes ... plus, the judge goes, "So, you are telling me that this officer, had nothing better to do with his time, but to pull you over for a false charge, write you up, and now, show up in court and take time out of his day ... all so he could lie in court about this ticket and the circumstances surrounding it ... that's what you are telling me?" ...

I mean, it's a no-win situation in court ... because it's different if the guy said he was speeding at "x" mph .. you can attack that b/c the officer would have to show proper calibration, etc ... but, the racing statute is different. Completely subjective here. Basically, the way it is written, you could be going 55 mph (speedlimit) but the officer could still pull you over for "racing" ...

It's completely subjective if you read the statute above ... there's no hard evidence required other than the Officer stating you were "racing" from the face of the statute. That is what sucks about VA ... most other jurisdictions would not allow such an open-ended statute.

[magnetic1]

well.. it is my belief that "racing" constitutes a beginning and an end. Without that, how can you prove you were technically "racing"??

This was the stance my lawyer took when I got written up for a bogus "racing" ticket in MD. We were at a Corvette gathering and about 6-7 of us were driving home... granted we werent doing the speed limit, we weren't racing either.

THey setup a sting operation where they had all these cops stop traffic and they picked 2 of us out. Me (Magnetic Red) and another (Millenium Yellow) and gave me a racing ticket.

My lawyer did tons of research and looked into MD law (VA might be different), but one of our most important points was that racing would need to constitute a beginning and an end. And somehow someone would have had to have signalled "GO!". Did the officer SEE someone start racing? There are lots of questions that need to be answered before you can be found guilty of such a VAGUE law. I don't know what happened in trial, but if the attorney was on top of his game, then there probably was a valid reason why the judge found him guilty..

[neenja]

wow, i'm shocked....that punishment is insane and so is the cop lying.

....i'm on a restricted lisence for something that happend almost 2 years ago b/c the court system is slow they just got around to it...this blows and i can't imagine being caught like dustin, i'd be done.....done.

I'm glad someone posted that, i tend to speed dispite things....i'll be watching myself next time anywhere near VA.

[Mark85]

VA is definetely bad, ive got 2 friends that have suspended license till they were 18

i got pulled once in leesburg for 23 over (speed limit 25 in town), reduced to 18 over (only speeding)...took the class and got it off my record

in the last 2 weeks i got pulled over once because i accelerated up to 80 real quick making a right at a light and i guess the cop was on the other side at the red light...but i dont think he had his radar on because i dont think i even got to 80, maybe 70 and this is on Rt.

and today comming down Rt 15 there was a cop doing radar under this bridge and another cop about 200 feet ahead with a car pulled over, i was doing about 75 not even realizing im speeding and dont see the cop until im just about past him and i see this guy waving at me either to slow down or pull over and i never hit the brakes, just kept cruisin at 60 lookin in my rear view mirror and he never got in his car


i think im gonna drive much more cautious now, i still have a clean record and im trying to keep it that way

[vjlax18]

What's funny is that we know almost all of the cops in our area because my father-in-law is retired from the local prec. And I've been told by many of them that they NEVER give tickets for racing. There is just no way to prove it in court for reasons just like what Eric brought up. It was only a matter of time until a Teckademic's person was hit with everything.

[vjlax18]

Oh, and I hope Dustin gets off, and he learns something from this. He is a friend of a friend, and I wish him well.

[John V]

Why can't they catch these Teckademicks idiots when they're in the act??

[PeteinMD]

So, anyone know a good lawyer for my son? 20+ over, according to the cop, near Harrisburg, VA, in his Miata. Son sez +10; I sez how can you prove it?

This is where a lawyer is needed, methinks. This is not his first speeding ticket, but is the first in over a year. He commutes to work, driving ~1.5 hr each way, so would not be a good thing for him to loose his license over this.

Infraction took place on I-81, in light to no traffic. No racing involved, just the desire to get home while the road was clear.

Thoughts?

PeteinMD
'00 M coupe

[NoSoup4U]

You need to get local counsel for that jurisdiction. I only know people in fairfax count -- although, they might know people in that jurisdiction. A lawyer will "probably" be able to reduce it down below 20+ ... do you know how your son was caught, LIDAR, RADAR, or paced?

What is the speed of 1-81 where he was caught? 55 or 65? How much 20+ over? Feel free to pm me.

[magnetic1]

Pete, you'll have to fist figure out how he was caught. If he was clocked with RADAR or even worse, LIDAR, then he probably won't have much to argue with in court. Ive found that you can almost NEVER argue a speeding ticket if you were caught with some type of enforcement device, especially laser.

Ive had some people I know get their speedometers calibrated (good for 2-5MPH) ... but a lawyer in that jurisdiction would be a good idea as NoSoup mentioned. They know all the DAs, judges, etc....

Another thought to note... if youre brave, use a V1 radar detector. In VA, almost always they use always-on Ka or K band radar. You can pick it up from like a mile away... just have to "speed smart" by staying in a pack, out of the left lane and never slam your brakes when the radar goes off....

I think VA is one of the best places to use a radar detector.... because they are illegal, the police don't have the latest gadgets .. as opposed to MD (especially rich arse Mont. County) where all they use is laser. Nothing can protect you from that... so if youre in MD, I'd watch your speed too... many State Troopers now are also equipped w/ laser...

[PeteinMD]

NoSoup4U - you have mail.

magnetic1 - I believe he passed the cop & was paced. I dunno; lawyer is looking better & better...

Each: - thanks for your replies.

Best,

PeteinMD
'00 M coupe

[4NXTC]

Originally posted by PeteinMD
So, anyone know a good lawyer for my son? 20+ over, according to the cop, near Harrisburg, VA, in his Miata. Son sez +10; I sez how can you prove it?

This is where a lawyer is needed, methinks. This is not his first speeding ticket, but is the first in over a year. He commutes to work, driving ~1.5 hr each way, so would not be a good thing for him to loose his license over this.

Infraction took place on I-81, in light to no traffic. No racing involved, just the desire to get home while the road was clear.

Thoughts?

PeteinMD
'00 M coupe

He can request a restricted license, if he proves that not being able to drive to work provides an undue hardship (i.e. no public transit available). A few of my friends had restrictions for a while. It works out pretty good, just make sure he doesn't get caught driving on it for anything other than it's inteded purpose.

[Juan ///M325]

Originally posted by magnetic1


I think VA is one of the best places to use a radar detector.... because they are illegal, the police don't have the latest gadgets .. as opposed to MD (especially rich arse Mont. County) where all they use is laser. Nothing can protect you from that... so if youre in MD, I'd watch your speed too... many State Troopers now are also equipped w/ laser...

Magnetic1,

I disagree with this statement. I worked as a cop in both states for a combined 12 years. As far as equipment goes, VA has the latest in technology. Here is why: in VA when a cop writes a ticket the funds go to the agency that writes the ticket. This means more money for equipment, which means more tickets, which means.....well you get the idea.

In Maryland, the funds go to the state. The state then gives the county in which the ticket was issued a portion of the "prize". The county then gives the police dept. a fraction of that (crumbs). That is the reason why you see better equipped police cruisers in VA.

While in the subject, I would like to give everyone an unsolicited advise....if I may. DO NOT bet the farm on your radar/lidar detectors. Do you really think that you can defeat a $4K device with a $400 one? If you are in traffic, at the same speed, the doppler radar (KA, Etc.) is useless to the cop....the wide band can't read the speed of one specific car. With Laser is just like a camera. Look through the lense and aim (at this point I have a red dot on your car). Your ladar detector has no idea I'm about to nail you. Once I pull the trigger to obtain your speed, your detector goes off but it's too late for you. The Ladar detector only works detecting Laser when you are in a group and the guy in front or beside you gets nailed.


With the radar, they have a "hold" mode or pause. If I'm behind you or in front of you while on this mode, your detector has no idea I'm there because the unit is not emitting (sp) any waves. Once the "hold botton is released, your radar will go off....again a bit too late. I used to do this at night because it was easier to get behind the "target" without being seen. Many times I saw cars with detectors with no activity, once the hold botton was released, the detector will light up like a christmas tree.


As far as getting a speeding ticket, if you're getting one, let it be in MD. The courts are a bit more liberal, so your chances are 50/50. In VA, the chances of you getting screw are 90%.



Pete in MD:

If your son was paced, the only thing your lawyer can challenge is the calibration of the cruiser's speedometer. Pacing is when the officer gets behind a speeding vehicle. The officer will keep the same speed for about 1/10th of a mile. If you are going at the same speed, then he can testify on how fast you were going based on his speedo. For this method the radar detector is also useless.

The cop is required to show up in court with a speedometer calibration sheet. If he does not have it, your son is not guilty. Good luck with that.


Juan


PS I don't mean to preach, I just want to share some
knowledge with all of you.

[PeteinMD]

Juan,

Thanx. Hope the cop doesn't show, or that he doesn't have a speedo calibration sheet with him.

Do you think the judge would ask to see this, or is it up to my son to ask for it to be produced? If the latter, wonder how much this will be held against him...

Again, thanx for your insight. I know my son didn't have a radar detector; it's still sitting in it's box, in a closet.

Best,

PeteinMD
'00 M coupe

[Mark85]

i have a friend who was paced twice and both times he just slowed down, then sped up...and changed lanes eventually so the cop could never tell how fast he was going

[Mark85]

i have a friend who was paced twice and both times he just slowed down, then sped up...and changed lanes eventually so the cop could never tell how fast he was going

oh, and while driving to work a cop pulls up next to me cruising at 40 in a 35 side by side for atleast a full mile, then finally he gets behind me and the lights turn on...now im like damn i just got pulled 2 weeks ago for 80 in 55 but no ticket, passed a cop doing radar at 75 in a 55 while he was waving his hand at me but i never saw him come after me, so im like how much luck can i have? im gonna get screwed this time...

well the cop gets out of his car and asks for license and regisration and says shouldnt you be in school, you look a little young to be driving...i tell him i have work release and im headed to Koons Ford and he lets me go, of course my brake lights out but the last 2 cops never said anything about the brake light out

this was about 10:45 today, i only have 1 class a day then work...such an easy senior year

[1996 328ti]

I won't argue with anyone on whether it is 20+, for some reason I think it's 22+ but good luck proving that.

I got puilled over for 78 in a 55 on 66 on the way to OG Racing. The Ahole cop tells me, I know it's hard to keep your speed down. Please! I went to court and the judge seemed pissed that I was from MD. I ended up paying more for the ticket than if I just sent in the money. The ticket was reduced but had to pay for court costs. What a racket. Saturday afternoon. No traffic. Not a cloud in the sky.

I recall others also got tickets for the exact same speed. The cops just wait until they can nail you with a reckless.

I will NEVER, EVER live in Northern Virginia!