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Thread: Evacuating crankcase gasses on boosted cars and more...

  1. #1
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    Evacuating crankcase gasses on boosted cars and more...

    http://www.racetronix.com/product/RX-CEPH/RX-CEPH.html

    This topic has been covered a few times, but I thought I would throw this out there since I believe it's the best method for evacuating crankcase gasses in our turbo cars. While I like, and have used the evacuation kits using the exhaust to pull a vacuum on the crankcase, I have seen them smoke even when using a catch can. You can buy two of the exhaust kits from Summit or Jegs for around $35 from what I remember.

    Using a Delphi electric air pump along with the Hobb's switch is a great idea. You can vent to atmosphere or a catch can and not worry about oil smoke coming out the tail pipe.

    Also, I used to use the Racetronix fuel pump relay harnesses to get the full 14 Volts of the battery to the Walbro pump. It just needed some rework to shorten it up and new weatherpack connectors installed.

    We will be using a second fuel pump, with a similar harness and Hobbs pressure switch for my buddy's 6.0 liter turbo pickup. Maybe that's an option for some of the higher horsepower M3's as well?

  2. #2
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    Thanks Eric I was actually in the process of redoing my crankcase vent. Im going to look into this option. Hope your doing well.

  3. #3
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    In the same vein, has anybody noticed that (at least on my M50 NV), the crank vent opening is very small when you use the stock fitting? It appears to be about 1/4" of an opening and it's about that size when you look into the valve cover nozzle. Has anybody drilled this out to perhaps vent gases more efficiently?
    A word of Internet Forum wisdom: Disregard any advice that begins with "I've heard..."

    97 M3/4 - S54, TRM Coilovers, UUC SSK/Sways/LTW Flywheel




  4. #4
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    Shuasha, it is quite small.. I have a couple of spare vc's and plan to hog one out and see how it works.

    Emc, why did you need a relay kit? All you need is a relay, socket, some wire and a soldering iron, no??

    I rather like that vac pump... What cars are those found in and wats the usual price for the pump? Would you still want to run a catch can?

  5. #5
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    I can see another use for that as well... To pump in clean air and assist with passing emissions....
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  6. #6
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    the valve cover has a little chamber with flaps to prevent oil coming out, it restricts the amount of pressure that can be evacuated. Drill that fucker out. I am putting additional -12an fittings in the valve cover and routing it to a catch can.

  7. #7
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    I think I'll be doing the same - putting another NPT fitting on the valve cover. Its too close to the fuel rail to get any meaningful size hose on it.

  8. #8
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    Has anyone used a mechanical vaccum to assist in ring sealing?

    I read an article in "Engines" where they would pick up 30-40hp by increasing the vaccum with a gear driven pump.

    Could the pump and the catch can be used together?

    -Dave
    TEC-3R, T4 GT40, WISECO, EAGLE, SUPERTECH, O-RING'D "FRANKENSTEIN" STROKER.

  9. #9
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    Looks like it needs to be shown again:

    Heres what I designed for my electric crankcase evacuation system. For boosted Apps It is programable to come on from 1-30 psi of boost. It's going on my 402@15psi. It fits in the stock battery tray. My battery is going in the rear compatment like the Z06


    ELECTRIC CRANKCASE EVACUATION SYSTEM
    Apply a vacuum source to the crankcase. Rather than putting a breather on the valve cover to let crankcase pressure out, pull the air out with a pump to create a vacuum.
    Benefits of Negative Crankcase Pressure using an Electric Pump:

    1) Prevents oil leaks from seals and gaskets by eliminating crankcase pressure.
    2) Reduces parasitic losses from pistons pumping against crankcase air.
    3) Improves piston ring seal.
    4) Increases HP and makes your engine last longer.
    5) Eliminates your PCV system and the possibility of oil being sucked into your engine keeping your intake system and combustion chambers clean.
    6) Eliminates the need for mechanical belt driven evacuation pump that robs some HP and needs rebuilding frequently.
    7) Superior to valve cover breathers and exhaust path suction type pcv systems which contaminate your exhaust system and mufflers with oil.
    8) Pump can be set up with the filtered crankcase exhaust routed to air filter housing instead of out to breather if desired for a closed loop system (emission friendly).
    9) Fits in factory battery tray for easy access to engine. (Battery must be relocated to trunk or rear compartment).
    10) Ideal for Turbo, Supercharged and high compression engines which create higher crankcase pressures at high RPM’s/Loads.
    11) Creates 5 inches of vacuum in your crankcase with a very high CFM air flow when needed at high RPM’s, exhausting and filtering all blowby, while still maintaining its vacuum for ring seal.
    12) The waste oil level is easily seen through sight hose and drained through a valve on the side of catch can. If any oil vapors pass the modified Catch can, they will be condensed and caught in the Air Dryer before reaching the pump to ensure long pump life.


    1990 BMW 329is 2 Door Alpineweiss II
    Fully built 2.9L Stroked M50
    My 2.9L M50 Build



  10. #10
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    Jon, details???

  11. #11
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    '90 329is 2.9L M50,
    http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1450082

    That's as much as I know about that. Although, I am working on building something similar.
    1990 BMW 329is 2 Door Alpineweiss II
    Fully built 2.9L Stroked M50
    My 2.9L M50 Build



  12. #12
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    Hey Jone30

    That has to be one of the best setups for pulling out crankcase pressure that I have seen. It uses as secondairy air pump and is well put together. I have teseted the BMW air pumps and when working correctly and pressure tested can push 20psi.

    You should by a digital manometer to measure crankcase pressures. Test with the air pump evac. system on and with it off. Or if your on a dyno do the same.

  13. #13
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    ABC12345, so you think it would work pretty well with a BMW air pump? I need to find someone with one, I don't really want to pay ~$75 for a used one. I wonder, would my MAP sensor on my old Megasquirt work for measuring crankcase vacuum? I do plan to buy a manometer eventually, but would the MS work? Its a 250kpa sensor.

  14. #14
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    Sigma, if you can take the output of the old MAP sensor and use it as a generic input with MS and log it, that would make for a VERY nice test.
    1990 BMW 329is 2 Door Alpineweiss II
    Fully built 2.9L Stroked M50
    My 2.9L M50 Build



  15. #15
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    Sigma

    250 kps is about 36 psi, if the map sensor can read well near 1 kpa or even measure down to .01 than I thank that would work well.

    The crank case pressure on My car measures 28"H2o of pressure at 12 psi of bosst. with the use of a catch can and 3/4" lines. When tested with 3/8" line it was around 38" h2o at 0" HG. At this time I do not have a vacuum pump. But realy like the set up the use of that secondaiy air pump. Should be able to hook it up to the tec3 and have it turn on a 5psi of boost. But have not check that out yet

    This is what I am useing as a manometer and it works well. It measures in 9 diffrent pressures and is good for + or - 5psi or +-138 "H2o. It has a rs-232 and works with a lap top for graphing.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Differential-Air-Pressure-Meter-Gauge-Manometer_W0QQitemZ190219535988QQihZ009QQcategoryZ 708QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

  16. #16
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    Anyone have concerns about this set up? I have a BMW secondary air pump from my E46 M3. I plan to run it inline with my current exhaust CCV.

    Valve cover - catch can
    Catch can to air pump
    Air pump- check valve/exhaust
    3/4" line throughout.

    The fan will be boost pressure activated. This should extend the pumps' life. I'm thinking about having it kick on at 4-6psi, will that work? Should I have it kick on at a lower PSI?

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by futureroadracer; 06-10-2012 at 03:17 PM.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_f7fUVqblI

    NEW BUILD
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    520whp
    635wtq
    120.51mph trap speed




  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by futureroadracer View Post
    Anyone have concerns about this set up? I have a BMW secondary air pump from my E46 M3. I plan to run it inline with my current exhaust CCV.

    Valve cover - catch can
    Catch can to air pump
    Air pump- check valve/exhaust
    3/4" line throughout.

    The fan will be boost pressure activated. This should extend the pumps' life. I'm thinking about having it kick on at 4-6psi, will that work? Should I have it kick on at a lower PSI?

    Thoughts?
    i run a ford corba air pump on the racetronix harness. I modified the hobbs switch to come on at 1 psi. That is fine for these pumps. I tried running the pump all the time, but i burned up two pumps doing that.

    The only down side about this setup is that you aren't pulling any vacuum while not under boost. And, you are really not letting the crank case breath too. Which isn't the biggest deal if you have a "fresher" bottom end and have minimal blow-by.

    TRM Turbo, Hybrid Audio Technologies stereo, S50 Cams, list goes on and on and on...

  18. #18
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    That's why I was thinking about running the pump inline with my current exhaust ccv set up. Under normal driving it should work as it does now. But when the pump turns on it should increase vacuum while in boost.

    Why did you set it for 1psi activation?

    Quote Originally Posted by darrenforeal View Post
    i run a ford corba air pump on the racetronix harness. I modified the hobbs switch to come on at 1 psi. That is fine for these pumps. I tried running the pump all the time, but i burned up two pumps doing that.

    The only down side about this setup is that you aren't pulling any vacuum while not under boost. And, you are really not letting the crank case breath too. Which isn't the biggest deal if you have a "fresher" bottom end and have minimal blow-by.
    OLD
    E30

    636whp
    1/4 mile: 10.91@144.38
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_f7fUVqblI

    NEW BUILD
    335d

    520whp
    635wtq
    120.51mph trap speed




  19. #19
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    I have wanted to whip up a kit using a small vacuum pump from these guys.
    http://www.starvacuumpumps.com/products/STR.09.04.000

    It would be the end all be all off oil issues. I have herd the electric pumps don't produce adequate vacuum. The oil pan needs to be in vacuum during boost. If we could achieve that, we could throw our scavenge pumps away once and for all!

  20. #20
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    I have everything in my garage so I'm gonna give it a try. Not sure if a dyno comparison would show anything but... I could give it a try.
    OLD
    E30

    636whp
    1/4 mile: 10.91@144.38
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_f7fUVqblI

    NEW BUILD
    335d

    520whp
    635wtq
    120.51mph trap speed




  21. #21
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    I had 2 BMW aux pumps die on the car after just 2-3 track sessions.I heard they dont like oil going thru them.Mercedes aux pumps may have a bit better construction and can be disassembled for repair/revision.
    Now I run mustang cobra electric pump that got even drowned in oil after my recent engine failure.It still runs fine after that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colby Colbs View Post
    I have wanted to whip up a kit using a small vacuum pump from these guys.
    http://www.starvacuumpumps.com/products/STR.09.04.000

    It would be the end all be all off oil issues. I have herd the electric pumps don't produce adequate vacuum. The oil pan needs to be in vacuum during boost. If we could achieve that, we could throw our scavenge pumps away once and for all!
    There is another good source for affordable mechanical pumps:

    http://www.gzmotorsports.com/vacuum-pumps.html#VP101

    Once my cobra electric pump dies I would probably jump to a mechanical one.

  22. #22
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    What does everyone think of the system in the corvette forum link? I like the setup, if it works well that would be awesome.

  23. #23
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    no reason not to start it at 1 psi. Beyond that, yes a belt driven one would kick ass, but that just further complicates things. I'd like to see someone do it though, and see how easy it can be done.

    TRM Turbo, Hybrid Audio Technologies stereo, S50 Cams, list goes on and on and on...

  24. #24
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    really glad this thread came back up as im looking to do something for crankcase evac since i'm bottom mount and get a wee bit of oil leakage from the chra and a occasional oil smoke sometimes....I was gonna just weld a 1" bung on my intake and run the ccv----->oil catch can------>turbo intake since I have a relatively fresh bottom end but worried about the vapors lowering the octane rating. The other option is the exhaust with the vibrant kit. I Just want to stop smoking! lol as of now i just have a huge 1" hose from my obd2 valve cover to the ground.

  25. #25
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    I know it's been beat to death....

    But, which catch can does everyone prefer?
    This is my signature....

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