Member
Does anyone know of or have a how to for the asc delete. I know how to do it. But do you have to keep the asc throttle body connected or can your remove it? I have heard the abs won't work if you take it off and i have heard that it will. I just don't want to have a giant second throttle body zip tied randomly in my engine bay that i don't need.
Member
For the ASC delete, you must remove the ASC throttle body. And replace the intake boot with a non-asc boot. Or get the Samco silicone intake boot. Bimmerworld sells it for $100. It adds power. Read Phil's thread:Originally Posted by nighthawk328i
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ighlight=samco
Pictured below: The plug circled in red is the connector to the ASC throttle body. This will trip the ASC light in the cluster and always stay on because you will no longer have traction control. The plug circled in yellow is what trips the ABS light if it is UNPLUGGED. As long as you leave it plugged in, you will keep your ABS.
Edit: If you decide to unplug the connector in the yellow circle and remove the actuator, you must install a resistor. 328ijunkie's DIY: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...54#post9444754
I lost the thread, but Eric of M50manifold.com was developing a little kit to keep a few pieces of the traction control throttle body and mount it near the strut tower so that it was possible to actually keep traction control (electrical part), for us non-LSD guys. But got rid of the restrictive traction control throttle body. So that when traction control was kicked in, it did not cut air flow to the engine but applied the rear brakes. It's pretty simple. I'm going to try to do it myself in the next month and post back on bf.c.
Last edited by mpwr ren rebel; 04-17-2008 at 06:51 PM.
Member
Alright thanks. I'd be interested in one if you get it to work properly.
Swap Whore
2nd parts not true. You can remove the yellow thing too. See my DIY.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...54#post9444754
460whp/515wtq wifes MMW tuned 335i
Member
I was searching for that last night but couldn't find it.But, yes you are correct. I edited my post to include your link. Thanks!
I was going to do the resistor trick, but I decided not to because I might sell the car in a few years and wanted to sell the car with traction control. Safety reason if it was sold to a young driver thinking there was traction control.
Swap Whore
Yeah. I dont sell my cars if i can help it hah. I wouldnt get like more than 7 for the E36 and ive got 3X that in it.
460whp/515wtq wifes MMW tuned 335i
5.BRO
so let me get this straight. if i unplug the red circle(d) plug and leave the yellow pluged in...ill have NO asc and WILL have abs with no abs light?
425whp/401wtq and 3496lbs- Race car
97 M3/4 -Daily
Member
If you unplug the red circled plug, you will NOT have ASC and the light will show on cluster.
If you leave yellow circled plug plugged in, you WILL have ABS and will NOT have an ABS light.
I left yellow circled plug in and just have the red circled one tucked away. ASC light is just a matter of taking out cluster and taking out the bulb. Doesn't take much.
Member
i need to do this soon!
Member
Thanks, all, for the very informative thread. I today completed my own sortof ASC delete.
The background: I have a 1995 325i with ASC, and an open diff. (Yes, I realize that it's uncommon, but nonetheless...). Generally, I like the system: Here in Ohio, when the streets turn to ice, I can drive around corners with a lot of confidence, occasionally with a bit of a screech as the brakes get modulated automatically and the pads make some noise.
However, it sucks in environments where there's just no grip at all -- deep snow, deep mud, uphill on ice. It's impossible to rock the car with the system on, and with it switched off it's just a different variety of bad. The throttle control of the ASC is so dramatic, and so slow to recover, that it's easier to get the car unstuck by switching it off (1 wheel drive!) and going from there.
So, I researched it. I found this thread straight-away, and I can appreciate that you M3 owners with LSD don't really care about ASC at all. But, like I said, my needs are different, and with winter fast approaching, I was looking for a greater solution than my Blizzak snow tires.
I ran across http://www.bimmerinfo.com/ASC_Mod.htm which describes simply removing the plate from the throttle body.
Earlier today, I took apart the intake, and performed this mod. Those screws were -really- stuck, and it took a right angle Craftsman screwdriver to get them unstuck, but it's out.
End result? It was dry and about 58 today, and in various abusive maneuvers in town on summer tires, it feels just right. More throttle oversteer, of course, but none of the clamped-down correction that the ASC used to insist upon.
My butt dyno says the car might be quicker by removing that oddly-angled throttle plate, but who knows -- the car has been temperamental lately anyway due to a leaky valve cover gasket and flooded spark plug holes and associated misfires.
I'll test it more when the streets are wet, and report back on the handling when I've got a little less grip. And I'll do so again when the snow flies.
So far, though, it seems to be very well-behaved with just that portion of the ASC system disabled. And, so, as far as free mods go, I give it 5 out of 5. YMMV.
Member
I've had a chance to run the car, at some length, with the ASC throttle plate removed. Conditions include warm asphalt, cold asphalt, wet asphalt, and gravel, all with summer tires.
The car behaves just fine. Traction seems to be just fine. It's possible to get some easily controlled power oversteer, now, whereas it was impossible before on my 325i with either ASC on or off.
Before this simple mod, with ASC on, it'd cut the throttle on power oversteer, and that'd be the end of that. With ASC off, the car would just spin one wheel, and the other always seemed to have mountains of grip. In neither case was power oversteer really possible. Now, it seems to apply enough brakes to the spinning wheel (whichever that might be) to get both of them going. And much fun ensues.
In normal, non-abusive driving, though: I notice no difference.
It's finally cold enough that I'll be putting the Blizzaks on again, which are a lot narrower and less grippy on dry pavement. We'll see how that goes.
And it'll be interesting once the snow flies and the ice falls -- previously on this car, it was possible to lift the throttle on ice and get tons of oversteer, but mostly impossible otherwise, ASC on or off.
And, it was impossible to get the car up any sort of grade with ASC on or off: With it on, it'd cut the throttle and slow to a stop in the car's attempt to eliminate all wheelspin. With it off, it became possible to climb a hill, but it was limited to one-wheel drive, which was far less than ideal.
Member
+1, just hook up a inline resister, 1 watt 10 ohm, I think, i've done it and it works.
low n' slow
Can anyone tell what the benefits of the ASC delete are?
While reading I noticed the OP had stated about starting out and how the wheels would spin so the car dropped rpms to help avoid wheels spin. Is that basically what the ASC delete does? I feel like ASC would be a good thing but I'm probably wrong. We just had our first snowfall here in PA and this is the first time I've driven a rear wheel drive 5spd car in snow.
I apologize for the thread jack and the stupid question.
Present: 2001 330ci, Orient Blue Metallic, ZSP, ZPP, 18x8.5/18x9.5 VMR VB3, Muffler Delete, Smoked Corners, tails and sides, ZHP shift knob, 20% tint. 87k Miles.
Past: 1994 325i: UUC System U Exhaust, 17x7.5 Squared Off DSII's, ///M Shift Knob, Rokkor Coilovers, DJ Auto Headlights with 6k HID, Angel Eyes, Homemade Intake, 3.23 LSD.....SOLD
Member
OP needs LSD.
Member
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people.
Fewer intake restrictions. Not that it ever seems to make much documented difference on a 325i, but fewer restrictions is better in terms of power, at least in the altruist sense.
In my car, I kept the rest of the ASC system except for the extra throttle plate. As I understand it, the bits that remain are supposed modulate the rear brakes individually and retard spark, to lessen wheelspin and therefore oversteer. It just can't directly modulate throttle anymore (though it thinks it can).
I, however, believe that I can do a better job on throttle control than ASC does, but still want the other parts of the system.
I live in NW Ohio, which probably sees similar weather to what you've got (we just got our first snow, too). In the five years I've had it, there's been times in my BMW where it's been impossible to climb a short hill on ice or packed snow, even with Blizzaks. Or, to get out of deep mud (we're prone to flooding around here).
In mud or on ice, it would go like this: Encounter badness. Observe badness. Engage a highish gear, and go. ASC system kicks in, allegedly to improve grip, but closes the throttle so much that the car just slows down, killing any momentum that it might have. It slows down so much, that one becomes fearful that the car will all out bloody STOP, even with one's foot firmly on the floor, as the system attempts to prevent any wheel-spin from occurring at all. And we all know (well, those of us from the northern states) that stopping == further badness.
End result is that after a tap of the ASC button, all of that nonsense stops immediately. The throttle is allowed to open, the engine has full power, and you can get the hell out of there without freezing your hand screwing a tow hook into the bumper and flagging down someone with a truck.
But since the whole entire system is disabled by pushing that button (including the fancy braking), doing so turns the car into being just one-wheel drive if it has an open differential, which is obviously far from ideal.
(Folks with limited-slip differentials don't have much of these worries. And for them, ASC is just about a no-brainer thing to delete, which is why you see so many M3 owners talking about the entire system as if it is merely a nuisance.)
That all said, I'm reasonably sure that your 1994 325i doesn't have the extra ASC throttle body to begin with. As I understand, it was added as a running change on 325i's which happened in mid-late 1995, (and not until 1996 for M3s).
That all said: Drive the car. Learn the car. Find an empty, unplowed or ice-covered lot, throw it into a complete sideways four-wheel skid, and learn to recover from it. Learn to countersteer. Learn to modulate the throttle. Piss the car off, and then make it behave: Turn a bit to the left until the suspension settles in, lift off the throttle completely, and then turn hard to the right. You'll find yourself in a long sideways slide, and neither braking nor more throttle will fix it. Fix it anyway. Do it again. Do some donuts. Stop hard while turning. Turn hard while stopping. Pull the handbrake. Stall the motor in motion, and recover from it.
Go. Have fun. But do pay close attention during all of this, and you'll have it learned in no time. Predict where the car will go, and compare that to what it actually did. Try to make reality match your predictions. And then, turn ASC off, and do it all again.
Eventually, you may find you don't want any help from ASC, or anything else. But at least, you'll know better how to drive the car, and you'll understand exactly what it is that ASC is all about.
I learned to drive RWD in snow on my wife's 1996 Firebird. Big, wide tires, lousy grip on snow. No weight in the rear end. It had positraction, and boatloads of bottom-end torque. Traction on the rear axle was either all-or-nothing, serene or terrifying. 35-mile commute to work. It had a button on the console that would instruct the automatic transmission to start in 2nd instead of 1st, and I used to use it like it was a religion when it was frozen outside. It scared the shit out of me at first, coming from a FWD world where sideways just never happened. But I studied it, figured it out, and really enjoyed driving that car in the winter, and didn't need the "2nd gear start" button after all.
Your 325i shouldn't be much different for you. Just pay attention.
Member
damn, thats a long post.
Member
+1 to ifixit, take time to play and learn your car and you will love driving it in snow
Roadrunner
I left my Bridgestone Pole position tires on this winter, and have been driving in the snow or on ice this entire week. I go slower than most people, and slide around the corners (it's fun) but the car always gets there. ASC is sometimes annoying, but it is helpful.
Member
ifixit, nice post. Really.
I like the idea of pulling the throttle plate -- I dislike the fact that it interferes too much sometimes but have been uwilling to give up the other benefits, just as you mention. This sounds like a neat compromise. Bravo.
Shouldn't it still work to "simulate" the LSD since it can brake one wheel though? Even if it can't back the throttle off, as mentioned, the driver can do that.
Fun yes, but do you really like to lengthen your stopping distances by that much? "stuff" happens...
Last edited by iXguy; 12-11-2009 at 10:33 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Member
You could say it's a simulation of LSD. For some things. Of course, it's completely different. It's nowhere near as smooth. It's not as predictable. It's probably best to turn it off on the track, etc.
But in terms of simply getting the car moving when there's limited grip, it's about the same: By braking the wheel that's spinning faster, torque gets transferred to the other one, and off you go (with any luck).
That all said, for me, it's just a temporary fix. I have a limited-slip diff here on my parts car, with about half as many miles on it (90k). I really wanted to get it swapped in this summer, but never had the time. Once that's done, though, I'll probably look into totally disabling/deleting the rest of the ASC system.
And, about summer tires in snow: Yikes. My 17", Z-rated Generals have lousy grip below about 40 degrees, even on dry pavement. On snow, it's an ugly joke -- I mean, it's fun to slide around turns at low speeds, but stopping is really, really scary. And on ice, you can forget it -- that's right up there with criminal negligence if something goes wrong, even if someone else was "at fault".
The Blizzaks get getter traction whenever it's cold out, and let me drive without fear during an ice storm. Buying a set of fairly skinny, 15" winter tires and light-weight wheels was some of the best money I've ever spent on anything, ever. I've had the same set for about four years, and only two of them are finally getting thin enough that they'll need replaced soon.
Member
Well said, I agree it' a rather poor simulation but it's at least somewhat functional. And you can always punch the button for a minute if you're having trouble with a hill or taking off or whatever. Almost pulled the trigger on a LSD a couple times this year though... the plot will thicken when that happens. I still think I'd like to have ASC the odd time, like when you hit ice unexpectedly or part way through a turn, but I'd consider modification.
I hope he only meant all seasons, not summers... My summers you can't even stay on the road if it has a camber, on say half an inch of snow. I remember a surprise snowstorm in my iX, dropped maybe an inch on a gravel parking lot, and I sat there with all four wheels spinning, barely going anywhere, you could have beaten me out of the parking lot at a walk. It was hilarious actually... luckily the roads had already melted.
I also have skinny 15" snows for winter and it works very well, I fear NO weather. And you know with BMW hubcaps, (stock wheels on some 318's) it doesn't look *too* bad. At least I can still drive my bimmer in the winter instead of some SUV or something.
low n' slow
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people.
Fewer intake restrictions. Not that it ever seems to make much documented difference on a 325i, but fewer restrictions is better in terms of power, at least in the altruist sense.
In my car, I kept the rest of the ASC system except for the extra throttle plate. As I understand it, the bits that remain are supposed modulate the rear brakes individually and retard spark, to lessen wheelspin and therefore oversteer. It just can't directly modulate throttle anymore (though it thinks it can).
I, however, believe that I can do a better job on throttle control than ASC does, but still want the other parts of the system.
I live in NW Ohio, which probably sees similar weather to what you've got (we just got our first snow, too). In the five years I've had it, there's been times in my BMW where it's been impossible to climb a short hill on ice or packed snow, even with Blizzaks. Or, to get out of deep mud (we're prone to flooding around here).
In mud or on ice, it would go like this: Encounter badness. Observe badness. Engage a highish gear, and go. ASC system kicks in, allegedly to improve grip, but closes the throttle so much that the car just slows down, killing any momentum that it might have. It slows down so much, that one becomes fearful that the car will all out bloody STOP, even with one's foot firmly on the floor, as the system attempts to prevent any wheel-spin from occurring at all. And we all know (well, those of us from the northern states) that stopping == further badness.
End result is that after a tap of the ASC button, all of that nonsense stops immediately. The throttle is allowed to open, the engine has full power, and you can get the hell out of there without freezing your hand screwing a tow hook into the bumper and flagging down someone with a truck.
But since the whole entire system is disabled by pushing that button (including the fancy braking), doing so turns the car into being just one-wheel drive if it has an open differential, which is obviously far from ideal.
(Folks with limited-slip differentials don't have much of these worries. And for them, ASC is just about a no-brainer thing to delete, which is why you see so many M3 owners talking about the entire system as if it is merely a nuisance.)
That all said, I'm reasonably sure that your 1994 325i doesn't have the extra ASC throttle body to begin with. As I understand, it was added as a running change on 325i's which happened in mid-late 1995, (and not until 1996 for M3s).
That all said: Drive the car. Learn the car. Find an empty, unplowed or ice-covered lot, throw it into a complete sideways four-wheel skid, and learn to recover from it. Learn to countersteer. Learn to modulate the throttle. Piss the car off, and then make it behave: Turn a bit to the left until the suspension settles in, lift off the throttle completely, and then turn hard to the right. You'll find yourself in a long sideways slide, and neither braking nor more throttle will fix it. Fix it anyway. Do it again. Do some donuts. Stop hard while turning. Turn hard while stopping. Pull the handbrake. Stall the motor in motion, and recover from it.
Go. Have fun. But do pay close attention during all of this, and you'll have it learned in no time. Predict where the car will go, and compare that to what it actually did. Try to make reality match your predictions. And then, turn ASC off, and do it all again.
Eventually, you may find you don't want any help from ASC, or anything else. But at least, you'll know better how to drive the car, and you'll understand exactly what it is that ASC is all about.
I learned to drive RWD in snow on my wife's 1996 Firebird. Big, wide tires, lousy grip on snow. No weight in the rear end. It had positraction, and boatloads of bottom-end torque. Traction on the rear axle was either all-or-nothing, serene or terrifying. 35-mile commute to work. It had a button on the console that would instruct the automatic transmission to start in 2nd instead of 1st, and I used to use it like it was a religion when it was frozen outside. It scared the shit out of me at first, coming from a FWD world where sideways just never happened. But I studied it, figured it out, and really enjoyed driving that car in the winter, and didn't need the "2nd gear start" button after all.
Your 325i shouldn't be much different for you. Just pay attention.
Wow. This has been the most informative response I have EVER gotten on these forums. Thank you so much for your response.
Now Allentown PA needs to get some snow instead of rain
Present: 2001 330ci, Orient Blue Metallic, ZSP, ZPP, 18x8.5/18x9.5 VMR VB3, Muffler Delete, Smoked Corners, tails and sides, ZHP shift knob, 20% tint. 87k Miles.
Past: 1994 325i: UUC System U Exhaust, 17x7.5 Squared Off DSII's, ///M Shift Knob, Rokkor Coilovers, DJ Auto Headlights with 6k HID, Angel Eyes, Homemade Intake, 3.23 LSD.....SOLD
Member
Wish I could find some BMW centercaps to snap into my 15" Borbet wheels, but alas. At least they only weigh about 22 pounds each, with rubber, which seems to make ABS more responsive and useful, and help with grip on rough snow.
It's a trip, driving along the highway at a reasonable speed, looking at the SUVs trying to dig themselves out of the snowbank that used to be a ditch.
I fear some weather: Deep snow (8+ inches). It gets compacted under the floor pan, and the whole car seems to float on it. The wheels don't have enough downward force to get any grip. I've considered Nascar-style spring rubbers to jack up the rear end for these rare occasions.
Member
Don't buy centercaps, buy stickers! At the dealer. Take in a center cap and see what they have, I bet you a sticker from an E30 basketweave (came in 14" and 15") would fit perfectly. There were various stickers that go in the center caps of the various wheels... maybe $10 each give or take? Some have contours, etc. They're not cheezy, they're what the factory used.
Ok, fair enough, when the snow is just plain too deep I have to wait, but once the plows do at least something with it, I'm good.
It's a trip, driving along the highway at a reasonable speed, looking at the SUVs trying to dig themselves out of the snowbank that used to be a ditch.
I fear some weather: Deep snow (8+ inches). It gets compacted under the floor pan, and the whole car seems to float on it. The wheels don't have enough downward force to get any grip. I've considered Nascar-style spring rubbers to jack up the rear end for these rare occasions.
Not like the iX though, that freaking thing WAS A snowplow half the time LOL.
UPDATE!
Hey, I have a handshake deal on a 3.15 LSD with like 66k miles on it.
Now I'm *really* interested in the ASC throttle plate delete.
Are you going to install your LSD this year? I'd really love to hear your impressions of the partial system with an LSD installed, in the snow.
Last edited by iXguy; 12-19-2009 at 09:23 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Member
Probably won't get the LSD installed before it gets warm again -- I've found that it's no fun doing work like that laying in the driveway, in the snow... Besides, I'm really enjoying the hell out of the car with its 3.91 gears that are left over from the auto tranny it used to have. (Yes, the gearing is absurdly low.) I forget if the LSD is 3.15 or 3.23, but either way it'll be a big change from what I'm used to lately.
Around these parts, at least with the M3 drivers, they seem to dislike ASC altogether with LSD. They come up with all manner of clever and/or ugly ways to get rid of it. I guess it could be a useful safety net, still, since it will react quickly to unplanned badness, but with LSD there's really no point of of the system in terms of everyday driving in the snow.
Besides, ASC stops working at something like 60 MPH, so it won't do a bit of good for the hairiest of mistakes. ;-)
Last edited by ifixit; 12-24-2009 at 12:57 AM. Reason: removed doubepost
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