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Last edited by ellislau; 06-21-2011 at 11:39 AM.
Thankyou for the info, sounds logical enough. I'm definitley going to wire this in first opportunity, meantime I'll keep practising rev matching.
So to define it in wiring terms--Parrallel connection on pin 19 of DME and one leg of clutch switch and then other leg in series to gear switch ( if present ) and then series to pin 80 of DME.
Only question is since the DME is programmed for smg whether it even registers the input-we may have to reflash and hope there are then no issues, such as torque limiting in 1st gear as discussed by others, though I feel something similar happening, but only from a dig. Could be just mechanical lag from the VANOS gearing.
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Last edited by ellislau; 06-21-2011 at 11:38 AM.
Hi guys can anyone help me I have done the conversion and replaced every thing but the clutch and fly wheel which had been replaced 20 k before the conversion.My problem is when I change into 1st 4th and reverse I push the clutch in and move the lever into gear and as I lift the Clutch it will jump out of gear and if I push the clutch in again and shift it stays in. This happens when the car is stationary and also when it is moving.I will pull the gear box out again if I know what I am looking for.I also want to sell the car the reason for the conversion as the smg was not working properly. Thanks for any advise.
Peter
Hi Guys I dont know if there is anyone still looking at this thread but after alot of searching I think I have found the problem and it might happen to all of you as it is a weekness in the gear box. In the realoem gear box internal parts there are several locking pins shown there is one for the main gear selector shaft this was in gear boxes after 1997 in the earlier box there is a switch.This locking pin has a roller attached to the end of it and this pin breaks off and you are locked in gear but before it does so it doesnt go into gear or jumps out . This gear box is the same in the 540 and has the same problems so I hope this will help any of you with similar problems.
I have also done the E36 M3 SMG 1 Conversion; I got a mechanic to do all the work.
Parts I got
Lately the car has been giving me bother with losing clutch pressure wile driving so I’ve had to replace a few parts myself. I have replaced
- 6 Speed Manuel box
- Gear linkages
- New Sachs clutch kit
- Clutch pedal
- Clutch Master and Slave Cylinder
- All nuts bolts, lines etc…
Below This is my Clutch Master Cylinder
- Clutch Master Cylinder (Pre 97 Master cylinder the longer of the two Master Cylinders)
- Clutch Slave cylinder (Sachs)
- Have a braided clutch line from the slave cylinder to the clutch copper pipes at bottom of engine
- Even replaced the pipe taking clutch fluid from reservoir tank to the master clutch cylinder
Below This is the Clutch Master Cylinder for the 1998 E36 M3 Evo
The car at times loses all clutch pressure, pedal just drops to the floor, I have to lift clutch pedal back up with my hand to restore clutch pressure I have no call to pump pedal to get pressure back are nothing, it seems to be a air bubble but I’ve bleed the car 3 or 4 times and have replaced clutch/brake fluid still no joy, and the problem is very random. I have noticed the problem seems to happen more when the car is sitting idling for a long period of time say 30 minuets then when you go to drive you lose pressure except it have something to do with heat from the engine.
Any help would be great would be great?
Also I have two questions
My clutch pedal biting point is very close to the ground any movement in the pedal and the clutch is engaged is this normal?
Below is picture of the parts I have used when installing, was wondering have I installed the right parts as everyone else?
I have drawed shapes round the parts i have installed
Last edited by E36 Ben; 02-15-2011 at 07:38 AM.
It is normal for a very close bitting point.
Parts are correct, have you replaced the slave cylinder?
Is there any fiuld leak?
How is the condition of part 5,6 and 7, are they installed properly?
Yes have replaced Slave cylinder about 4 months back, and a new clutch and trust bearing 1 year ago.
How can i tell the condition of 5,6 and 7?
i did not fit this part it was the mechanic and i cannot say if parts are installed correctly?
But car is driving ok other than the losing pressure the odd time which makes me think that the parts must be installed correctly
What do you mean losing pressure at an odd time? when full throttle? peak power? or torque? or just plain randomly?
If its randomly, you may just have a tiny air pocket in your clutch line.
Peak power, something causing the clutch to slip at max grip. Maybe the clutch itself, maybe something linkage related?
or torque, something in the pressure plate? mating related?
As i said it is completely random, I have noticed it seems to happen mostly when the car is hot after sitting idling or sitting in heavy traffic.
An example of how random it is would be, I only drive car at weekends so car only does a few thousand miles a year, the last time it happened was the 11/02/2011 and before that was 01/04/2010 now how random is that, nearly a full year without doing it.
For under Ģ1000 convert it to manuel,in total mine cost Ģ600 pound,and that was including labour,as the smg parts sell very quickly.
Sounds like air in the clutch lines. They are a pain to bleed.
98 Euro E36 M3 (ExSMG)/99 M3 Daily Driver/93 M3 (S54) TBD-hp/TBD-tq ) Current NASA track record holder TTD on street tires @ 3450lbs (Eagles Canyon 2:05.3, MSR-Houston 1:47.08)S52E36 TWS CCW 1:54.8, COTA 2:30.6 Race Lap 3yr old 245/40/18 Hankook Z214 C51)
If you've installed the master in the first pic, its the wrong one, unless you've made it fit somehow.
The loss of pressure is air - you need to remove the slave, compress it fully and turn it so that the bleed nipple is the highest point of the cylinder, then you can bleed it correctly, using the pump and release technique.
The correct biting point is just before the point where the over-the-centre-helper (spring on the pedal) starts to operate.
I found my new slave leaked not long after installation, so I returned my original smg slave- it has larger porting, and a metal restraining plate at the piston to reduce seal wear, only downside was I had to make an adapter for the HEL clutch line because the smg slave has an M12 thread.
I've since installed a clutch stop, the clutch operation is now brilliant, very consistent abrupt when I need it to be.
Loss of power--check your throttle cable, mine was binding.
Last edited by DusM3; 03-15-2011 at 01:36 PM.
Hi Guys!
Just been reading this thread as I have just converted my E36 M3 from SMG to Manual.
Its drivable but I have 2 problems.
1. The Tacho SMG Display is still lit and showing error code E1 and the triangle with the exclamation mark in it. Does any one know how to disable this display?
2. The clutch engages just of the carpet.
Im almost 100% sure the lines have been bled properly.
Im thinking it may be possible to get a longer push rod for the slave cylinder to give the extra through on the clutch.
Can anyone advise me with this one?
....
Last edited by ellislau; 06-21-2011 at 11:39 AM.
2002 m3 smg. Please don't tell me Bentley, I know they don't have it.
Thanks,
Stuart
Palo Alto, CA
oil temp
cluster oil temp
smg
oiltemp instrument cluster
The easiest way to disable the display is to unplug it from the back of the dash, small blue multi plug from memory, i removed the bulb from the triangle light!
As for the biting point, it seems they are all like this, i have done 3 conversions and all had a low biting point, i have also got 2 factory manuals, 1 with a brand new clutch and flywheel, that is low too.
I did make an adjustable length push rod and messed about with it for a while but didnt get any noticeable results.
Has anyone managed to wire in the oil temperature gauge from a manual car?
My biting point is just below the balance point of the clutch pedal ( just over half way down ) and I have a custom stop screwed all the way in.
The trick is thorough bleeding with the slave out, compressed all the way in with a clamp and the bleeder at the highest point. Having someone work the clutch pedal is essential. Nothing else works, especially self bleeders.
I reinstalled my smg slave-much more robust, and larger ports.
As for the display....I'll explain without pictures and hope it makes sense.
Firstly you'll need the E36 M3 AG version wiring PDF.
Now remove the cluster and extract the keep the coding plug-assuming you have the M3 Evo cluster with oil temp gauge.
Now-from the cluster connectors, wire#20 X17 remove and transfer to #13 X16 (you are now using SMG fault ouput wire to signal your new oil temp. guage.)
- You will now remove your SMG ecu and supply fuses (optional)
F111, F222 and F28 , and if you can find a spare, gut it so you only have the connector body and shortened bare pins from the circuit board for solder bridges. Solder in a bridge wire between terminals 3 and 62. If you don't have a spare ecu ( or use your own) make do. Note that you can shorten the casing to provide a cover for the pins. You are now redirecting the Gearbox temp input to the cluster oil temp input.
Now under the car, snip off the plug for gearbox oil temp (leave min. 100mm of wire) draw the wire back to where it tee's off under the airbox ( this is definitley out ) and redirect to the oil temp. switch you've already installed ( there is a port for this purpose below the oil pressure switch on the oil pump housing ). Resolder the plug to the in-position wire and use heatshrink to protect. (If you muck about with the pins on the plug you will be looking for a new plug). I did. You are now supplying the cluster with an oil temp. input.
Job Done..almost.
With your SMG ecu gone your engine will not stay started, it will die within a second. I have decribed a simple workaround for this in previous posts, pictures are provided.
Now the new cluster will only need your original coding plug, with an alignment done to transfer original mileage to the new cluster. this procedure is described in the TIS and must be followed to letter or a tamper dot will appear and not go away. Note that the cluster you buy must have lower mileage than yours for this to work. Otherwise a new coding plug and alignment is required.
The other way to do this is run a new wire from the temp. switch directly to the cluster whichever route you choose. I'm happy with the results I have, totally OE appearance in the cabin, you'd never know from inside, and I have alot of wires I can use later just by bridging a few links.
Take the time to read and understand the wiring diagram, doing things slowly while documenting and checking should see you through.
If you tackle it and get it wrong I was never here
G'day Guys!
Great thread - I have spent hours pouring over it! I am actually preparing for this conversion myself (E36 SMG to 6 Speed manual), I have aquired a spare SMG gearbox so that I can have it ready to bolt in as soon as I pull the old one out.
My question is - is there any particular measurements I should adhear to when machining the gearbox housing - I reacon I could get a pretty good idea from DusM3's pics (thanks by the way!) but also reason that if I am just a little (0.5mm even) out it could significantly impact the way the shifter feels?
Unfortunately I dont have access to a 6 speed bellhousing to compare to (or give to my machine shop as a sample).
Any help would be appreciated!
Cheers
Steve
Thank you ellislau!
Can anybody recommend a machine shop in melbourne to perform this work (pref east)?
Last edited by mpowersteve; 07-14-2011 at 08:59 PM. Reason: addition
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