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Thread: Secondary air pump repair-bought some time

  1. #1
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    Secondary air pump repair-bought some time

    I had been getting code 51 on my Peake which is the infamous secondary air fault. Used to hear it run on start-up, but not any more. Pulled the pump and put it on a bench power supply and even at 20 amps, it wouldn't turn. Just a loud hum. When I turned the pump upside down some water came out. There is a air inlet filter that can be removed-just a donut-shaped foam filter. It was soggy wet. Tried to turn the motor by hand and it was stuck. Took the cover off the other end and sprayed some PB blaster into the pump and it came free. Put it back on the bench supply and she started to spin. The current draw kept coming down. I really saturated the motor with PB blaster which is just a spray to loosen rusted nuts and bolts. Cleaned filter, reinstalled. clear error and it runs again and no codes.

    I think what happens is somehow it sucked water into the inlet and the filter froze. The pump can not run if the inlet is clogged so the rotor eventually rusted in place. Now that the weather is warmer, the filter and inlet are no longer the issue, but the rotor/impeller can be stuck good by that time. I ran it on the bench (you could use a car battery) and maybe I bought some time. I'll be damned if I'm going to spend like $240 for that POS. Sprayed a little PB blaster into the valve while I was at it.

    Before buying a new pump, you might want to see if your pump can turn by hand with a screw driver or needle nose. If it's stuck you might as well take it apart or soak it like I did. What have you got to lose at that point if you are getting codes anyway?

    Bill

  2. #2
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    I think your valve is bad.

    BMW 528i Automatic - Premium and Winter Package - Avital Remote Starter - XM Satellite Radio - e60 wheels - LPG

  3. #3
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    You're thinking moisture is coming in the other way..condensation in the exhaust flowing back into the pump? Interesting, very well could be. Valve appeared to be in better shape than the pump-like it might have been replaced once-but either way, it sounds like this is a cold weather only problem as the pump is cbviously lighting-up the sensors enough to satisfy the ECU.

    Bill

  4. #4
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    Did you take any pictures?

  5. #5
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    Sounds like a good temp solution.
    Jason

    '90 325iX 5M, '00 528iT 5M Sport (mfg. 5/1999)
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  6. #6
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    I did not take any pictures as what would I take a picture of? The secondary air pump or the valve? The secondary air pump is located directly in front of the front passenger side tire. Remove the lower inner wheel cover. The pump is held by 3 Screws, a hose, and an electrical connector. The valve can be accessed by removing the same hose from the pump held in by two torx screws- T-20's as I recall. This is on a M62 motor.

    The fuse, if you need to check it is #107 which is under the passenger seat under the carpet. I had power, just no pump movement. It was frozen pretty solid. If there is a next time (maybe next year) I will pull the rotor out of the stator and clean it better and replace the two plastic clips with stainless worm clamps.

    Bill

  7. #7
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    The only way water gets in the pump is from moist exhaust condensing in a cold motor. Take good look at the check valve or you'll be doing it again in 2 months. Isn't it a great feelling when you bring a part back from the dead like that?

  8. #8
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    Yes, it is a good feeling like somehow you have cheated "the man" who wants your $$$$$$.
    I would hope that even if water is getting back fed through the valve into the pump that with the weather being warmer and the fact that the car is a DD that the motor won't freeze up and throw the stupid code again. I know it's just a code and not a limp home mode fault, but it masks other codes if one were to pop up so I am happy I can clear it and hope it stays cleared. Last time I cleared it, it was back by the second re-start.

  9. #9
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    Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but how long did this last?

    My problem is the pump is very LOUD, so I assume the water has affected it.

    *** Any idea how to quiet this down?? I really don't want to donate more money to bad engineering on BMW's part.

    Thanks!
    1998 BMW Z3 2.8 Dinan Supercharged

    Went down the rabbit hole with Alfas for a few years...
    Prior BMWs: '70 2002, 82 323i Euro, 92 325is, 99 540i/6 Dinan, 00 540i Wagon, 2008 335i vert N54

  10. #10
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    If it's loud I would take it out immediately and see what the cause is. If there's any water in there, drain it and spray some WD40 in there. Hopefully it's salvagable. Then replace the valve immediately. Mine was loud before being completely flooded with water. I didn't even know what it was at the time and I always play my music so I had no idea how long it had been like that. On a cold start, pull the small vacuum hose from the diverter valve and check for vacuum. You should have vacuum for the first minute or 2 before the solenoid valve switches off. If there isn't any vacuum or if there's constant vacuum, the solenoid valve is bad. Don't overlook the solenoid, if it goes bad, it will cause the diverter valve to appear bad and if it stays open it will take out the pump too.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by reelizmpro View Post
    If it's loud I would take it out immediately and see what the cause is. If there's any water in there, drain it and spray some WD40 in there. Hopefully it's salvagable. Then replace the valve immediately. Mine was loud before being completely flooded with water. I didn't even know what it was at the time and I always play my music so I had no idea how long it had been like that. On a cold start, pull the small vacuum hose from the diverter valve and check for vacuum. You should have vacuum for the first minute or 2 before the solenoid valve switches off. If there isn't any vacuum or if there's constant vacuum, the solenoid valve is bad. Don't overlook the solenoid, if it goes bad, it will cause the diverter valve to appear bad and if it stays open it will take out the pump too.
    Thanks Reel. I think I might do that. How much time woudl it take to remove it and drain it. I have a Liqui-vac oil extractor -- do you think would it be possible to fish it down the hose to remove any water?

    The solenoid is definitely turning it on/off as its so loud, I hear it switch off every morning at the end of my block. The sound is embararsing and i'd like to try to save it before payign $500 in repairs.

    Any way to clean/save the valve before replacing? it's easily accessed and its not too expensive, but if i could just clean it I'd prefer to do that.
    1998 BMW Z3 2.8 Dinan Supercharged

    Went down the rabbit hole with Alfas for a few years...
    Prior BMWs: '70 2002, 82 323i Euro, 92 325is, 99 540i/6 Dinan, 00 540i Wagon, 2008 335i vert N54

  12. #12
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    It lasted until it got very cold outside and the pump froze solid. All that said the valve was bad were correct. The condensation continued to form and then the Midwest winters got the best of it. The frozen pump then blew the 50 amp fuse which is conveniently (choke here) located beneath the passenger's seat carpet. If you were in a warm climate and needed to just pass an emission test, it might have been worth it. It was not in my case. Now you have the rest of the story..

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 540iman View Post
    It lasted until it got very cold outside and the pump froze solid. All that said the valve was bad were correct. The condensation continued to form and then the Midwest winters got the best of it. The frozen pump then blew the 50 amp fuse which is conveniently (choke here) located beneath the passenger's seat carpet. If you were in a warm climate and needed to just pass an emission test, it might have been worth it. It was not in my case. Now you have the rest of the story..
    Thanks for the update.

    I think I might pull off the valve this weekend and soak it with injector cleaner to see if I can decarbon it enough to make it function/close again. Will also see if I can siphon the water out and perhaps drop some oil into the pump.
    1998 BMW Z3 2.8 Dinan Supercharged

    Went down the rabbit hole with Alfas for a few years...
    Prior BMWs: '70 2002, 82 323i Euro, 92 325is, 99 540i/6 Dinan, 00 540i Wagon, 2008 335i vert N54

  14. #14
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    Oh, I should add another detail that may be pertinent. When I bought my 540, it had a Dinan CAI installed. This necessitates the pump being mounted upside down. I never had the Dinan install instructions, but it is my understanding that part of turning the pump upside down is that you are to drill a small hole in the bottom of the pump-I assume to give *normal* condensation a place to exit. We are not talking condensation from a failed valve, but possibly there is a normal amount of moisture that can form periodically. I got rid of the Dinan and returned my car to stock for many reasons other than the SAP, but I saw no "weep hole" in my pump which may have hastened its demise. The funny part is that before the fuse blew, I had no CEL. I ultimately replaced the fuse, relay, pump, hose, valve, and O2 sensors and still had the CEL! Took the car to BMW out of frustration and they said the SAP system was operating perfectly. They said it is not uncommon for normal production variances to allow one pump to deliver more air to the exhaust system than others and that my car had carbon build-up in their opinion, which was restricting some air flow. They said my old pump likely had stronger air flow until it died its ultimate death. My final fix was a Powerchips ECU chip with wider acceptable air flow parameters. No CEL any more, but you must have the system in place. It is not a sim...it is a software fix that just tells the ECU to be happy with somewhat less air. It likely cost me about a grand just to make the damn CEL go away. I did get an increase in performance however from the chip. A LOT of extra performance.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakay View Post
    Thanks Reel. I think I might do that. How much time woudl it take to remove it and drain it. I have a Liqui-vac oil extractor -- do you think would it be possible to fish it down the hose to remove any water?

    The solenoid is definitely turning it on/off as its so loud, I hear it switch off every morning at the end of my block. The sound is embararsing and i'd like to try to save it before payign $500 in repairs.

    Any way to clean/save the valve before replacing? it's easily accessed and its not too expensive, but if i could just clean it I'd prefer to do that.

    The pump is "only" $280 and the replacement is an easy DIY (http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/8238717-1.html) with common tools. The valve is around $80. If the pump is making a lot of noise, it is probably not repairable. Here's the BMW fault guide: http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/m...%20Failure.pdf Better to remove it and turn it upside down to see if there is water inside. Should take only 30 minutes to do this. Faster as you get practice (lol), which I have a lot of!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 540iman View Post
    Oh, I should add another detail that may be pertinent. When I bought my 540, it had a Dinan CAI installed. This necessitates the pump being mounted upside down. I never had the Dinan install instructions, but it is my understanding that part of turning the pump upside down is that you are to drill a small hole in the bottom of the pump-I assume to give *normal* condensation a place to exit. We are not talking condensation from a failed valve, but possibly there is a normal amount of moisture that can form periodically.
    Thank you for posting this as MY car also came with a dinan cai.

    Anyone know where the instructions might be posted??

    Now you have me really curious to check this out. if it doesn't have the hole, maybe I can empty it out, drill one and somehow save the pump. Probably too late, but might be worth a try.

    I did take off my MAF tube and try to fish down my liquivac hose, which i could only get to go part way due to the bends.

    The valve looks difficult to remove wihtout removing a small coolant hose. It was dark, so I gave up for the night, but can you get a box end wrench down in there easily enough?? Here's a shot of it:

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...85&hg=11&fg=50

    Thanks!
    1998 BMW Z3 2.8 Dinan Supercharged

    Went down the rabbit hole with Alfas for a few years...
    Prior BMWs: '70 2002, 82 323i Euro, 92 325is, 99 540i/6 Dinan, 00 540i Wagon, 2008 335i vert N54

  17. #17
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    OK, nevermind on the help pulling off the valve -- I got it off and its now sitting in my garage sink upside down and filled with Seafoam injector cleaner. It appears to be holding the liquid just fine, so it doesn't seem like th evalve is leaking. hmmm...

    Did a bunch of Google searches and found this, which is very interesting:

    http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/141240.aspx

    I don't have mine off yet (tomorrow), but thius sure looks liek the exact same pump. Is it??

    In any event, they are showing that the "loud pump" problem is a seperation in the body. I am goign to take mine off and inspect it -- maybe this is the problem. it sounds like exactly what they are describing.

    This could be great find for helping wiht this repair AND/OR maybe the VW pump is the same but much cheaper??
    1998 BMW Z3 2.8 Dinan Supercharged

    Went down the rabbit hole with Alfas for a few years...
    Prior BMWs: '70 2002, 82 323i Euro, 92 325is, 99 540i/6 Dinan, 00 540i Wagon, 2008 335i vert N54

  18. #18
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    Hello guys,

    I started my own tread about this issue, but then found out that 540iman were giving some advices and decided to join here.

    I have had exactly same symptoms: ugly noise on Cold Start sometimes with Loud Knocking. Because it was only for 1-2 minutes it made me less worried.

    Then there was a CEL. I went to Autozone and got a code P1421: Secondary Air System (Bank 2).

    Today I finally removed it and found this :


    Or more close view:


    I want to clean this sucker and bring it back to life.
    Similar problem I have had with my Wiper Motor and its now fixed and like new...

  19. #19
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    Bad Air Valve ---> Exhaust Moisture enters Air Pump ----> Drowning the Air Pump, killing Air Pump.

    If people repace the Air Valve and its vacuum hoses every 80K or so preventively, the Air Pump lasts the life of the vehicle because the Air Pump runs only 1-2 minutes at startup when COLD.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnn View Post
    Bad Air Valve ---> Exhaust Moisture enters Air Pump ----> Drowning the Air Pump, killing Air Pump.

    If people repace the Air Valve and its vacuum hoses every 80K or so preventively, the Air Pump lasts the life of the vehicle because the Air Pump runs only 1-2 minutes at startup when COLD.
    I know, I know. Now, I know. No arguing here. You are right.

    PS. Guess what, I removed it and my SEL is gone! Ready to sell! JK.

  21. #21
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    Mine looked equally bad, but it cleaned up nicely. Remember that the reason this occurs in the first place is NOT because water or moisture from the exhaust is pushed in to the pump..this just isn't the physics of what is happening. It may sound the same, but the moisture gets in the pump because the pump is cold and the exhaust gas is warm/hot. The temp. difference causes condensation to form on the inside of the pump. In the case of the Dinan boys, their pumps must be flipped upside down and a hole drilled. For others make sure the air filter media is cleaned so the pump can breathe. If the valve stays open part way or too long then the exhaust gas gets hotter making the condensation problem even worse that it might be otherwise. Inspect brushes while you are in there and try to get a light film of grease onto the small bronze bushings.

  22. #22
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    Anyone have a good price on an air pump and/or valves?
    UNDER CONSTRUCTION

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    Got any questions about my car? Feel free to PM me!

  23. #23
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    PS. Guess what, I removed it and my SEL is gone! Ready to sell! JK.
    Does removing this pump really kill the SES code fault? I'm getting this code fairly regularly now and don't see the point in running it if I don't need it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FP5241 View Post
    Anyone have a good price on an air pump and/or valves?
    Quote Originally Posted by herothezero View Post
    Does removing this pump really kill the SES code fault? I'm getting this code fairly regularly now and don't see the point in running it if I don't need it.
    +1 to both questions ??

  25. #25
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    Like I said, my CE light is no longer there and I am not planning to put my Secondary Air Pump back anytime soon. If ever.

    I may do something about noise though. I have an idea of connecting the hose that ran into pump from valve with the hose that run out of it.

    You can find those on eBay for about $190 and up plus another $100 for valve...

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