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Thread: BMW E36 318 Turbo vs. Supercharger

  1. #1
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    BMW E36 318 Turbo vs. Supercharger

    I have made my final decesion on what to do. I currently own a 1994 318IS and was thinking about getting a swap. I finally decided that my car can kick ass w/o doing a swap if I do the right stuff to it. Then I ran into a problem.

    Supercharger or Turbo
    Mossleman Turbo:182HP/187TQ 0-60 in 7.9 Seconds
    DA Supercharger:210HP/230 0-60 in 7.1 Seconds

    Then I heard roomers about another Turbo coming out for the 318IS. So I wanted to know which one would be better to get a Turbo for it or Supercharger. Also does anyone have some 1/4 miles times on their supercharger and turbo, which would probably help better. Im sure they're are other 318 enthusiast to, as I read the other thread.

  2. #2
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    Supercharger. I plan to order mine within the next 2 weeks or so. I would go DA over mossleman because not only is there more power, I believe it's also cheaper for more power. And the mossleman only yields 182hp? you'll still be getting smacked around by stock 325's. plus, with the DA, if you've read some threads, RMS is working on a stage II for, putting it up about 30 more hp. there are still some glitches, but i think it's worth it to get the DA and wait for the stage II.
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  3. #3
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    DASC goes in my 318 on 4/29....nuff said.

    I have never heard of anyone, nor ever seen the Turbo kit. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but if you are looking for "peer support", I have no idea where you would go. There has been tons of discussion here about the DASC - seems like the best way to go. Either DASC or a M3 engine swap....
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  4. #4
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    Yea, I was definently leaning more to the DASC, but I just wanted to get some input on whether the turbo is better. The only reason why I was interested in the turbo is b/c its pumpin how 182HP/187lbs and its just a few 1/10 from what the DASC does. I know that turbo can be built up, but at the same time Im feelin the DASC, and since you said they may be comin out with a Stage II then just makes me want to buy it more. If so, its going in my car next MONTH!(The DASC at least)

  5. #5
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    I have the DASC on my 1.9L Z3 and put down 171rwhp and 152rwtq. (Automatic transmission)

    I was one of the first ones to jump on the RMS bandwagon for their Stg. II and it didn't live up to the hype/expectations. IMHO there is considerable work that needs to be done on the software end, and I wasn't willing to wait for Osh to get around to it. With the Stg. II kit from RMS I only saw 184rwhp and 162rwtq...... not much of an increase.

    NickG is working on an upgrade to the DASC, and a couple people have already posted about their experience on another forum. Quit impressive

    He's working on a 318 currently, and hopes to have a kit available possibly next month. He's also hinting that he has some idea's for additional stages.... We'll have to wait and see if it's feasable.......

    If all goes well, I hope to have Nick's kit next month and post my results:

    Good luck in your choice!
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  6. #6
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    Blackice, the problem with either setup, turbo or SC, is that you have a '94 318. That car uses an airflow meter (vs. a mass airflow sensor). The power gain and flexibility of that system is very limited.

    My suggestion would be to drop the FI idea and go with a 6-cylinder NA engine instead. Lots to choose from and you'll have your 4-cyl setup to sell to recoup some costs. Overall, it would cost the same or less, and you'd have even further room for improvement.
    Nick Glantzis
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  7. #7
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    Maybe you can assist me then. I know that I have certain limitations because of my engine and so forth, but I wanted to know, besides a supercharger what would be the best stuff to get ,before I put the supecharger on their. And how much do you think the Stage II Supercharger Produce as far as HP and Torque

  8. #8
    ///3oris's Avatar
    ///3oris is offline "Diogenes the Cynic"
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    blackice: I couldn't agree with Nick more... you can buy a 325/328 engine for half (or less) than the price of an M3 engine.. and with a couple of mods you can do more power than a 1.8L at the same cost. Plus.. unless you get the turbo, you won't get the torque of a 6cyl either.

    BTW, this is all written without knowing anything about 318 SC's/Turbo's available..... but I did read about one guy, extensively, who lives in Australia; he has a 318 running 19psi boost, all forged internals, I don't remmember what else... but mucho shit.... and he was dynoing about 220rwhp... that's about 20rwhp more than a stock M3 engine... and I'm sure he spent a pretty penny on all that... (plus.. how much room for improvement do you think he has?)

    As the V-8 boys like to say... there's no replacement for displacement

    Go with NickG's recommendation...

    Boris

  9. #9
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    My wife's DASCed 318ti put out 190rwhp and 163ft/lbs at our 2nd anual Dent Fest and Dyno Day yesterday. It's running a DASC, R-speed check valve, a custom heatshield, aluminum M3 flywheel and a Stromung exhaust. She was pretty happy with her little hatchback
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  10. #10
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    Originally posted by ///3oris
    black

    BTW, this is all written without knowing anything about 318 SC's/Turbo's available..... but I did read about one guy, extensively, who lives in Australia; he has a 318 running 19psi boost, all forged internals, I don't remmember what else... but mucho shit.... and he was dynoing about 220rwhp... that's about 20rwhp more than a stock M3 engine... and I'm sure he spent a pretty penny on all that... (plus.. how much room for improvement do you think he has?)
    That would be me (i think)

    Last dyno day produced 234hp at the wheels. Since then received larger throttle body, an adiditional auxiliary computer, larger exhaust system and larger turbo. Yet to go back on the same dyno but on a different dyno it was making 20-30rwhp more (@18psi).

    Like Boris said - I did spend a lot of money and even more time on it but that depends where you go to do the job.

    As for room for improvement - there is quite a lot of room. Problem is - I will have to start using M3-spec running gear if I start producing any more torque/power. So far everything mechanically has been ok.

    You will have the same problem with an M3 engine swap. It's solely up to whoever wants to do the upgrade. If they want the potential of an awesome street machine - then get an engine swap and turbo/supercharge that later.

    If they just want to make their 318 a little quicker and more enjoyable to drive - then get turbo/supercharger. Personally I'd go for turbo but then again i'm bias.
    Last edited by blown3; 04-21-2003 at 01:11 AM.
    Life is short. Run more boost.

    Turbo E36 318iS Coupe
    234rwhp @ 18psi (Mitsubishi turbo)
    C&V Dyno Dynamics Dyno (2002)

    Now running larger GT28 turbo.
    Waiting for 2003 Dyno Day

  11. #11
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    Nick G, you have some very good points about the engine swap and so forth. The only thing is why not make something big out of something small. Kind of like a ant bite. Those small things can bite the hell out of you, to be so small. Everyone knows 318's are slow stock. Everyone doesnt know that they can be fast if you do the right stuff to it. Whether its a turbo or a supercharger, dont you think that if i get my power up to a stock M3 I would be faster, do to my weight and more power at the wheels. Also blown3 Id like to know what type of turbo are you using. Is it reliable?Because I know the DASC are. What do you run the quater mile in. I also read something somewhere, where you can do a 2.0L conversion and be runnin 170HP stock from doing that. Think the DASC or turbo and all regular 318 performance parts will comply with that.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by blackice318
    Also blown3 Id like to know what type of turbo are you using. Is it reliable?Because I know the DASC are. What do you run the quater mile in. I also read something somewhere, where you can do a 2.0L conversion and be runnin 170HP stock from doing that. Think the DASC or turbo and all regular 318 performance parts will comply with that.
    Before I was using a mitsubishi turbo (no problemss), now i'm using Garrett GT28 (no problems either).

    Never run the quartermile on a track but I've run two Euro spec E36 M3's from standstill and beaten them both. Don't think my quartermile time will be anything fancy - high 13's i suppose.
    Life is short. Run more boost.

    Turbo E36 318iS Coupe
    234rwhp @ 18psi (Mitsubishi turbo)
    C&V Dyno Dynamics Dyno (2002)

    Now running larger GT28 turbo.
    Waiting for 2003 Dyno Day

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by blown3
    Before I was using a mitsubishi turbo (no problemss), now i'm using Garrett GT28 (no problems either).

    Never run the quartermile on a track but I've run two Euro spec E36 M3's from standstill and beaten them both. Don't think my quartermile time will be anything fancy - high 13's i suppose.
    Forgot to add I was only using Falken 225/45 tyres versus whatever M3's come with.
    Life is short. Run more boost.

    Turbo E36 318iS Coupe
    234rwhp @ 18psi (Mitsubishi turbo)
    C&V Dyno Dynamics Dyno (2002)

    Now running larger GT28 turbo.
    Waiting for 2003 Dyno Day

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by blackice318
    Nick G, you have some very good points about the engine swap and so forth. The only thing is why not make something big out of something small. Kind of like a ant bite. Those small things can bite the hell out of you, to be so small. Everyone knows 318's are slow stock. Everyone doesnt know that they can be fast if you do the right stuff to it.
    Anything can be made fast when you do the right stuff to it, but at what cost? I have friends with Civics that run 11's (would be 10's, but traction is a problem)... but they look stock on the outside... but it doesnt mean that under the hood they're running the stock 1.6L engine... on the contrary, they use at least 1.8L Integra or 2.2L Prelude...

    Also, unless you have a ti, the only thing that sets you apart from a 325/328/M3 is the badge... most people don't even know what car you have besides the fact that it's a BMW.

    So if you're doing this just to say "I have a 1.8L that can do 300 to the wheels"... that's fine... (and happens often with Hondas), but consider the costs, and consider the price you'll be paying with lag/torque at the low end.

    First figure out how much power (torque) you want (and the shape), and at what RPM range, then figure out if a turbo or N/A can produce this... then find out the costs to do what you want to do... then do the same for all alternatives.

    blown3: Yep, you're the guy I was thinking about... good to see that you're making more power with less boost now (unless my memory is bad ).

    Good luck blackice,

    Boris

  15. #15
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    Blackice, don't get me wrong, I really like the idea of having a unique combination. I REALLY like the idea of a turbo 318, but only if it's the 96+ (OBD2) variety as the computer system is more flexible to such mods. (yeah, I know it sounds strange that I'm saying that an OBD2 system is more flexible than an OBD1....it's really because the OBD1 4-cyl setup is a generation or two behind the 'other' OBD1 systems.)

    Anyway, if you had a 96+ 318, I'd say go for it (turbo or SC, I'd love to do the programming on a turbo setup). But being you have a '94, my recommendation remains to drop in a 6-cyl.
    Nick Glantzis
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  16. #16
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    Originally posted by ///3oris


    blown3: Yep, you're the guy I was thinking about... good to see that you're making more power with less boost now (unless my memory is bad ).
    Boris: You were only off by 1 psi
    initially I ran 16psi but then changed to 18psi (with old turbo). Now running same boost with new setup but making more power.

    Blackice: If you want to "kick ass" then a simple bolt-on kit won't do the job. You will have to spend big bucks if you decide to retain the 318 motor. Easiest way to get kick ass performance is M3 engine swap. Then if you get used to the power - turbo/supercharge that!
    Life is short. Run more boost.

    Turbo E36 318iS Coupe
    234rwhp @ 18psi (Mitsubishi turbo)
    C&V Dyno Dynamics Dyno (2002)

    Now running larger GT28 turbo.
    Waiting for 2003 Dyno Day

  17. #17
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    The thing about engine swaps is that its not only an engine swap... but also a tranny, driveshaft, and rear end swap. I just want a system that's easy to put on and that will give me some much needed power on the highway, so the DASC system is probably going to be the most I ever do engine wise.

    NickG,
    I know that the air flow meter on our 94 318's are restrictive... you don't think that regular ecu tuning would be able to make a difference? I'm guessing i'd probably hit 160 rwhp when I do get a DASC, you don't there is much possiblity to get much higher than that, even with OBD1? Since you're in Miami, and I'm in Orlando, I wouldn't mind driving down there for some custom tuning

  18. #18
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    Thats exactly what Im talking about Edacosta, it would cost a lot more money to get an engine swap than a supercharger or a Turbo alone. Thats why I want the same,but dont you get more than that at the wheels. Also, ive noticed in most peformance BMW Magazines that the 318's get turbos. Im looking at the October 2002 and this one 318 has 234rwhp. It has a turbo, also has anyone heard about the 2.0 conversion for the 318?

  19. #19
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    Talking TURBO OR SUPERCHARGER?????

    How's it going guys!!! As you can tell i'm new to the forum. I also own a 1994 BMW 318is, and ran into the same problem.
    I have made my final decesion on what to do. I currently own a 1994 318IS and was thinking about getting a swap. I finally decided that my car can kick ass w/o doing a swap if I do the right stuff to it. Then I ran into a problem.
    I was searching thru the web and found you guys on the way. Read this thread and decided to tell you about my situation. Just finished purchasing a MOSSELMAN TURBO KIT from http://www.audspeed.com/pages/1/index.htm



    That was my good news, the bad news is now I'm thinking of going Superchager "Downing/Atlanta"?



    Know my question is do you guys think I should stick with my turbo, or go out an buy me a "DA Supercharger"?

    Any suggestions greatly appreciated, Thanks.:

  20. #20
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    edacosta: Your car looks hot!

    blackice318: Depends what the guy has done to it. If he has a kit then it depends how comprehensive the kit is (e.g. intercooler, forged pistons, etc). You won't be making 234rwhp reliably on stock internals.

    lujan318is: why you thinking about supercharger over your recently purchased turbo kit?
    Life is short. Run more boost.

    Turbo E36 318iS Coupe
    234rwhp @ 18psi (Mitsubishi turbo)
    C&V Dyno Dynamics Dyno (2002)

    Now running larger GT28 turbo.
    Waiting for 2003 Dyno Day

  21. #21
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    Allen's turbo 318 has flogged a euro M3 with aftermarket CAI and exhaust on numerous runs over 1/4 mile. It also defeated a Supra and a WRX.

    Don't let Allen's humble nature disguise the facts; his 318 eats M3s. An for comparison to a US spec S52 M3? Don't even waste your time.
    .-=[ Kenny ]=-. See the BFc Drag Racing Standings List for BMW street cars. Watch my drag racing movies on YouTube. Some info on
    BMW turbo street car Drag Racing 101

  22. #22
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    blown3, let me know what internals you got. I dont know to much about internals but im still learning. If i get a supercharger or turbo, im definently getting high lift cams, im also buying a fuel regulator, and i saw something in the PBMW about a fuel injector valve, its suppose to give better throttle response.

    *Noone heard of the 1.8L to 2.0L conversion,i saw it on a site earlier this week but neglected to save it on my error? Its suppose to give 170HP.*

  23. #23
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  24. #24
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    Originally posted by blackice318
    blown3, let me know what internals you got. I dont know to much about internals but im still learning. If i get a supercharger or turbo, im definently getting high lift cams, im also buying a fuel regulator, and i saw something in the PBMW about a fuel injector valve, its suppose to give better throttle response.
    Like MrBlonde said - most of my modifications are on the specified link. The new modifications may not have been added yet.

    I thought high lift cams were for hard-core naturally aspirated engines? Most "turbo-converted-cars" work well with original cams. If you start playing with cams - you will have problems with stalling etc. But talk to an expert about that - don't go out and buy cams without seeking professional advice first.
    Life is short. Run more boost.

    Turbo E36 318iS Coupe
    234rwhp @ 18psi (Mitsubishi turbo)
    C&V Dyno Dynamics Dyno (2002)

    Now running larger GT28 turbo.
    Waiting for 2003 Dyno Day

  25. #25
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    blown 3, in what range did you spend on your engine to get it that fast?

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