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Thread: The OFFICIAL bogging, hesitating, no acceleration from idle thread

  1. #1351
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sussex. UK
    Posts
    13
    My Cars
    1994 320i
    Does anyone know where i can get pinout info for Siemens DME MS40.1?
    I have the Bentley manual but it does not cover my DME.

    Here's what i've tried....new parts
    Plugs NGK BKR6EK
    DME water temp sensor
    Air filter and fuel filter
    Water pump (needed doin' anyway!)
    Thermostat (broken and stuck in the open position)
    Oil and filter after Wynn's engine flush
    Hydraulic tappet conditioner additive in oil
    Injector cleaner additive in fuel
    DME relay and fuel pump relay
    Crank sensor and Cam sensor

    Tried second hand....
    DME
    Fuel rail with FPR and injectors
    Air flow meter and TPS

    Checked/cleaned....
    ICV, MAP sensor and all vacuum hoses
    Earth connections and Power connections, sensor connections, continuities.
    Fuses and relay connections
    Compression test....all good.
    Fuel pressure under all conditions
    Alternator output, battery state.
    Stipped DME and resoldered all major components. Had DME interrogated.
    Harmonic balancer (crank sensor trigger) alignment.
    All sensor and coil resistances within given tolerances.
    All sensor, injector connectors have correct voltages as specified.
    Lambda functioning as it should, Vanos checked but noisy.

    Not much left to check!
    I am now convinced my/our problems are outside of the DME's monitoring/adaptation capability ie Non electrical such as FPR, or, a fault that is just bad enough to cause our problems but not bad enough to generate a fault code? ie Coil boots partially leaking to earth so the DME does not "see" the problem BUT we know the poblem is there because the car drives like crap!
    I aint gonna be beaten.

  2. #1352
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sussex. UK
    Posts
    13
    My Cars
    1994 320i
    Quote Originally Posted by acmclb
    Well, the new CPS made a big difference. Drove around for half an hour, in traffic, in 80 degree weather. The curious thing is the symptoms - bogging, occasional bouncing idle when coming to a stop, muddy exhaust note, etc. - are still there but it takes longer for them to manifest themselves and they are not as severe. This leads me to believe that the other side of the of the sensor connector (under the intake manifold) - the side that leads into the wiring harness - may also have frayed wires. I'll have a look once the engine cools down.

    I'm not going to look through 60 odd pages of postings but I'll bet this is a high mileage issue. I have 160,000 miles.
    When i found the problem with the insulation on the sensor plugs, i too wondered if the loom side would be the same, so i checked all of them and they were OK. I came to the conclusion that the loom is made by a different manufacturer than the sensors and they use a different/better quality cable.
    Might be worth checking anyway though.
    I looked back to see what you have replaced and i see you haven't changed your coil boots either? I think that is my next move, like you say we are all high mileage sufferers and mine do look a bit tired.
    Good luck

  3. #1353
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    264
    My Cars
    92 325i, 2002 Honda Superhawk VTR1000
    Fudge it, I am buying the performance coils from bavauto in like 2 mins so I will see if this helps, I will also replace the intake air temp sensor and change them at different times.

    "If ignorance is bliss, than wipe the smile off my face."- The great Zack De La Rocha, Rage Against the Machine

  4. #1354
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts
    46
    My Cars
    1993 320i
    Quote Originally Posted by 323iM
    My 2 cents...


    Changed the harmonic dampner / balancer which was a few MM off...This actaully was faulty which may have retarded the car according to the bosch technitians, who fixed it (car running) from terrible to not bad.
    Anyone else done or considered this? When I mentioned the bogging when warm problem to a BMW tech, the first thing he mentioned was the vibration damper. I had a peek at mine and it looked alright - the rubber sandwich looked healthy - but I don't know if a visual check is adequate or not.

  5. #1355
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    8
    My Cars
    323ic

    Question Bogging/missing/hesitation/fluttering problem

    I've just been through the whole thread and, being less the mechanic than most of you, the information is very helpful. Thanks. Mine is pretty much getting to a critical point.. the car runs more horribly as time passes, and it's gotten to a point where occasionally it's only running on 5 cylinders... with a horrible fluttering noise when that happens. As with most of you, the car is fine at startup and gets bad as it gets warmer or the day heats up. If I punch it with some beligerance, it's like I can make one of the plugs quit firing. It shudders horribly but if I turn the car off and on again... I'm back to all 6 running (still runs bad though). Can't get it going from a stop and if I take the foot off the gas even at freeway speeds it will sputter on re-accel. As long as I keep a constant gas to it, it runs fine, even good at times. Weird deal. Have tried new plugs... no help after about a week and I've had 2 secondary air pump failures which I'm told is unrelated. Sensors, vanos... this thing is a mess. BMW guys couldn't get it right.. need help and it seems still no definitive answer here. I checked the coils and they were fine on last inspection and no leaks apparent. Question I have is related to the plug changes. We all seem to agree that changing the plugs is a short-term fix. It seems to me that something is wrecking the plugs perhaps? I dunno... not the big mechanic, but that seems the place to go for me. Thoughts?

  6. #1356
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    https://t.me/pump_upp
    Posts
    3,276
    My Cars
    99 Z3M Coupe
    Anything from fuel to lack of could cause the plug failures. I've been running on my new NGK's for a month or so maybe now, and they definetly helped a lot but I still feel like the car isn't 100%. I am changing my fuel filter tonight, as that seems to be another common problem.

    I've also got a CEL related to the fuel vapor valve located in the trunk. The problems I'm having started about a month after I threw that code, so I don't think that it would be the culprit but I'm not sure. If that valve wasn't $100 I would have gotten one already, but it's going to have to wait until I get back to a critical point.

  7. #1357
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    boston MA
    Posts
    249
    My Cars
    92 318is/92 325is/
    Quote Originally Posted by dmurray14
    Guys... I was messing around today and I think I made an important discovery. Those of you with this problem, go UNPLUG your MAF. Drive the car. Tell me if you notice anything.

    I just did this...apparently, unplugging the MAF is supposed to make the car drive a lot worse, since it's "guessing" at the amount of air coming in. I thought for me, there would be no change if it was bad. It drove BETTER! None of the bogging or backfiring, and was nice and linear up to around 5.5k, where it just fell off (I'm assuming this is a built-in for the "limp home" mode).

    Again, can't be certain, but I should have a better idea tomorrow when I get another MAF. I'll keep you guys updated. Hopefully, we're one step closer...

    Dan







    u can't drive when u take off the maf plug the car just shuts off cause i tried that And Keep this thread going i have the dam same problem when i start the car it runs find but when i drive off it tend to decrease accleration and i can move at all but the car still on i have to turn the car off then turn it back on and flore it back home and help thank ..

  8. #1358
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    boston MA
    Posts
    249
    My Cars
    92 318is/92 325is/
    Quote Originally Posted by dmurray14
    So who's gonna be the guinea pig and take off their cats and go for a ride?



    i might have 2

  9. #1359
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Naples, FL
    Posts
    875
    My Cars
    1995 BMW 318is
    just pay no attention to the funny looks you get going down the street, but i think if you check back you'll notice someone has already replaced their cats and it didn't fix anything.
    "Before you can think outside the box, you have to know whats in it"

    -Matthew

    M42 Club Member #126

  10. #1360
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    3,678
    My Cars
    2013 M3, 1993 325is
    Quote Originally Posted by str8bucking



    u can't drive when u take off the maf plug the car just shuts off cause i tried that And Keep this thread going i have the dam same problem when i start the car it runs find but when i drive off it tend to decrease accleration and i can move at all but the car still on i have to turn the car off then turn it back on and flore it back home and help thank ..
    Did you read all of my post? You can disconnect the MAF and the engine will still run...I've done it.

    Dan
    Dan

  11. #1361
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    852
    My Cars
    E86 Z4M Coupe
    Quote Originally Posted by dmurray14
    Did you read all of my post? You can disconnect the MAF and the engine will still run...I've done it.

    Dan
    yep. i did it on accident. and it barely started for me, but it did run.

    E36 325is - SOLD

    *New signature being updated soon with Z4MC

  12. #1362
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,547
    My Cars
    E36, WRX
    For the record-- I've given up.

  13. #1363
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Queen Mary's Land (MD)
    Posts
    5,412
    My Cars
    08 328i|01 530i|96 328s
    Quote Originally Posted by a32guy
    For the record-- I've given up.
    I'm sorry to hear that, boy this problem is a $h1tty deal to some of you guys. I wish we could find a real solution to this, it worries me.
    ~Phil

    P.S. Don't give up
    Madeiraviolett Bf.C club member #001

    1996 BMW 328is Madeiraviolett/Dove Grey: 5 Spd, Sport, Cold Weather & Premium Sound pkgs.
    3.5" ECIS/ITG intake -> Samco ASC Delete Boot -> DINAN TB -> M50 Manifold -> S52 Cams | Bav Auto Red-top ignition coils tuned w/ AA software, Dynomax Cats & Stromung exhaust UUC Pulleys & Clutch stop, FDM=Zionsville radiator, Mishimoto Tank, SAMCO hoses, Fidanza LTW flywheel & M3 clutch, UUC Evo3 SSK, 3.23 LSD, Koni/Eibach Adjustable Damper suspension, PUR RSM's & RTABs, CF Strut brace, UUC Swaybarbarians, Motorsport X-Brace, 17x8 Beyern Mesh wheels Hella CELIS projectors + 5k TRS HID's, Fog delete=Brake cooling duct, LTW wing, ///M Bumper & R. Diffuser
    CCA Member #382557

  14. #1364
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    852
    My Cars
    E86 Z4M Coupe
    Quote Originally Posted by a32guy
    For the record-- I've given up.
    awww come on man. just imagine it running new again. thats my motivation.

    E36 325is - SOLD

    *New signature being updated soon with Z4MC

  15. #1365
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    3,678
    My Cars
    2013 M3, 1993 325is
    Quote Originally Posted by a32guy
    For the record-- I've given up.
    Oh, shut up Chris! Last time you got drunk, you said you were going to sell it for a Honda. Will power man, will power!


    Dan
    Dan

  16. #1366
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    boston MA
    Posts
    249
    My Cars
    92 318is/92 325is/
    Quote Originally Posted by dmurray14
    Did you read all of my post? You can disconnect the MAF and the engine will still run...I've done it.

    Dan




    cross that yae it did run with out the maf plug but when the problem starts agian i was rubing on the acclerator and the maf made a poping noise don't know what happen but everything looks aright...AND i THINK I FOUND THE PROBLEM on my 318is 92 when it start bogging and no accleration and hesitating
    i took off the vacuum hose that connect to the fuel pressure regulator i took of the hose 4 like 5 second and there was air blowing out then i reconnect it back on it started to run fine i drove 4 like 20 minutes and it was ok but i know the probelms is still there cause i didn't replace it yet and the car seem not usually it seem slow but the car runs fine no more bogging i thingk it would better if i change the pressure regulator i might fell the different but the point it i just took the hose off and let some air out and put it back onn then car runs fine but i need a tune up asap

  17. #1367
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    3,678
    My Cars
    2013 M3, 1993 325is
    Quote Originally Posted by str8bucking



    cross that yae it did run with out the maf plug but when the problem starts agian i was rubing on the acclerator and the maf made a poping noise don't know what happen but everything looks aright...AND i THINK I FOUND THE PROBLEM on my 318is 92 when it start bogging and no accleration and hesitating
    i took off the vacuum hose that connect to the fuel pressure regulator i took of the hose 4 like 5 second and there was air blowing out then i reconnect it back on it started to run fine i drove 4 like 20 minutes and it was ok but i know the probelms is still there cause i didn't replace it yet and the car seem not usually it seem slow but the car runs fine no more bogging i thingk it would better if i change the pressure regulator i might fell the different but the point it i just took the hose off and let some air out and put it back onn then car runs fine but i need a tune up asap
    Why are you including that picture of your car in every post? Kind of annoying...

    Anyway, I've done the pressure regulator, and it made no difference for me. I believe someone else on here did the same thing with the same results.

    Dan
    Dan

  18. #1368
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    boston MA
    Posts
    249
    My Cars
    92 318is/92 325is/
    Quote Originally Posted by 323nick
    I've just been through the whole thread and, being less the mechanic than most of you, the information is very helpful. Thanks. Mine is pretty much getting to a critical point.. the car runs more horribly as time passes, and it's gotten to a point where occasionally it's only running on 5 cylinders... with a horrible fluttering noise when that happens. As with most of you, the car is fine at startup and gets bad as it gets warmer or the day heats up. If I punch it with some beligerance, it's like I can make one of the plugs quit firing. It shudders horribly but if I turn the car off and on again... I'm back to all 6 running (still runs bad though). Can't get it going from a stop and if I take the foot off the gas even at freeway speeds it will sputter on re-accel. As long as I keep a constant gas to it, it runs fine, even good at times. Weird deal. Have tried new plugs... no help after about a week and I've had 2 secondary air pump failures which I'm told is unrelated. Sensors, vanos... this thing is a mess. BMW guys couldn't get it right.. need help and it seems still no definitive answer here. I checked the coils and they were fine on last inspection and no leaks apparent. Question I have is related to the plug changes. We all seem to agree that changing the plugs is a short-term fix. It seems to me that something is wrecking the plugs perhaps? I dunno... not the big mechanic, but that seems the place to go for me. Thoughts?



    same problem hope my tip helped

  19. #1369
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    boston MA
    Posts
    249
    My Cars
    92 318is/92 325is/
    Quote Originally Posted by dmurray14
    Honestly, no one knows for certain right now. No reason to go shooting down people's ideas if we haven't tried it first. The quickest answer would probably be to take our cars to the dealer, but that's not what we're doing, we're experimenting. So let's give each idea a thought and not cross it off right away...

    Sidvicious - I'm hesitant to think that the computer KNOWS about whatever is causing this issue, as I think it would cause a major CEL if it was something it could monitor. Instead, I think it's something the computer can't (or for some reason isn't able to) monitor.


    Prophecy - I think you need to clean your ICV. Sounds like that's it for you...

    Dan

    What u use to clean i ICV?

  20. #1370
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    boston MA
    Posts
    249
    My Cars
    92 318is/92 325is/
    Quote Originally Posted by WickedCrispy
    Everyone seems to have described every solution possible, but my two cents is when I used to have an old POS E30 with the same problem and the mechanics kept telling me I needed a new MAF.

    When I finally found a place that sold rebuilt ones special ordered, I went through a used one from the junkyard and two rebuilt ones before she finally evened herself out and ran perfect. I think I also had a bad idle control valve and 02 sensor from running the messed up MAF for so long or something (I dunno I'm a bad mechanic,) that they all replaced at once.

    I had tried cleaning out the MAF, even removing the plastic cover to WD-40 the electronic contacts and stuff inside which did absolutely nothing to help. I'd also heard that if you open the MAFs electronics (mine was already opened before I got the car) fumes from certain chemicals can ruin all the stuff inside, like resealing the cover with silicone, super glue or epoxy type stuff. Like I said, this is all speculation but a new MAF worked for me. I had even tried replacing the fuel filter after running injector cleaning solution which seemed to help, but didn't actually fix the problem. I notice that's the trouble with BMW is you think you're affecting something but since all systems are all looped within other systems (mechanically and electronically) like some freaky Frankensteined perpetual motion machine on crack it's hard to tell what exactly you're actually doing.

    I've heard up and down that BMW MAFs are pieces of shit and the electronics just go sour for no good reason all the time, and even if you get a new one, it can "pop" and go bad as soon as you plug it in from getting bad signals from the rest of the cars systems. The cool thing is that Advanced Auto Parts out here had a 90 day warranty and replaced the MAF for me for absolutely free.

    Best Bet? Get a fault code reader or take it to a certified BMW mechanic. I also saw some thread about free fault code readings on certain years by messing with the ignition and accelerator pedal. I can't wait to try it and see if it works.

    P.S. My E36 is doing the same shit now, it only gets worse as you let it slide, and I'll bet anything she needs a new MAF and some related shit.

    your saying when ur MAF is bad when u hear a pop nosie while rubbing the engine?

  21. #1371
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    boston MA
    Posts
    249
    My Cars
    92 318is/92 325is/

    Moon

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.mike36
    The misfire has to be compression related in conjusction with what the rest of us are going through...spark + air(pressure) = ignition (HP) Backfire is typically a reduced backpressure or inccorect timing from my experience. If the plugs have been changed I would check my compression and coils to make sure eveything is within spec.


    misfire sometimes it can be the coils/timing chain place wrong/wrong order of spark plug wires/crankshaft sensors/or incorrect assembling crankshaft,that all i can think of 4 now

  22. #1372
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    NNJ
    Posts
    101
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    07Rabbit 90JettaVR6
    str8bucking, use the "Edit Post" feature...it works wonders
    1990 Jetta VR6
    Certified money pit and driveway queen.



  23. #1373
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    264
    My Cars
    92 325i, 2002 Honda Superhawk VTR1000
    Quote Originally Posted by str8bucking
    misfire sometimes it can be the coils/timing chain place wrong/wrong order of spark plug wires/crankshaft sensors/or incorrect assembling crankshaft,that all i can think of 4 now
    This thread is degrading in quality. Incorrect crankshaft assembly??? WTF? Wrong order of sparkplug wires...we are a bit beyond this since the car would not even run correctly with incorrect plug wire order.

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by dmurray14
    Honestly, no one knows for certain right now. No reason to go shooting down people's ideas if we haven't tried it first. The quickest answer would probably be to take our cars to the dealer, but that's not what we're doing, we're experimenting. So let's give each idea a thought and not cross it off right away...

    Sidvicious - I'm hesitant to think that the computer KNOWS about whatever is causing this issue, as I think it would cause a major CEL if it was something it could monitor. Instead, I think it's something the computer can't (or for some reason isn't able to) monitor.


    Prophecy - I think you need to clean your ICV. Sounds like that's it for you...

    Dan

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    Many have already gone to the dealer for this and no results. I personally have spoken to three mechanics about the issue and they are stumped aside from coils, crank/cam position sensors, and fuel pressure issues. Other than that, the dealer knows nothing more than we do.

    Whoever is thinking of giving up...if your compression test comes back fine, then the issue is a simple component of the car that more than likely will be a minimal expense. Process of elimination, if it doesn't fix it, it is something else.

    "If ignorance is bliss, than wipe the smile off my face."- The great Zack De La Rocha, Rage Against the Machine

  24. #1374
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Richardson, TX
    Posts
    236
    My Cars
    2000 Camaro z28 LS1 (com
    Having the same problem.. kinda. My car will speed up fine but when it hits 4500 to 5000 rpms up it feels like the engine is not gettin enough fuel. I've changed my spark plugs and fuel filter. While changing the fuel filter did help, the problem is back. I'm also getting a code that says the maf sensor is no good... but i don't wanna spend 300$$$ on one :\. I just hope someone finds the solution for this prob.

  25. #1375
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Santa Rosa , CA
    Posts
    1,605
    My Cars
    '92 BMW 325is Coupe
    List of parts that have been changed/cleaned? THis will help to weed through this long thread and try out the components that havent been changed instead of changing a part that somebody else has already...... Have seen a few people change out things that have already been mentioned in this thread such as the O2 and MAF sensor.

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