Sounds like a temperature sensor of some kind.
o 1997 540i6 o Dinan supercharger system o Dinan stage 3 suspension system o Dinan wheels o UUC EVO3 SSK/DSSR o SS Headers o M-Tech illuminated shifter o M5 3.62 LSD o Cubic trim o Gauge rings o OEM In-dash CD o Ultimate pedals o Hella AE's o M-Sport Steering Wheel o 400 RWHP o A/W intercooler o Killer Chiller
Turned out to be spark plus for the missfire
Then four intake leaks i found with a smoke test
A kinked icv hose that was very soft
Hard starting problem fixed with fpr and filter
Still randomly stalling when fully warm
When dropping from 1.5-2k into idle while stopping the car will die sometimes. If i let the car idle down all the way to 600 then go into neutral it will not stall. I feel like this is also creating a hesitation going into first gear almost always.
I have cleaned icv replaced plug, coils, boots, fpr and fuel filter, grounded my ecu to chassis, it seems better when cold but still hesitant
This sucks..... My car drives amazing otherwise
Thread resurrection
So, I'm having some hesitation issues on my ODB-I E36. I've read through several hundred posts on this thread, and as far as I (and Google) can tell, this really is the official thread for E36 hesitation, even if it is ancient. Some of the participants have sold/lost/wrecked their car, but it's still a great thread and it's not like the mechanical aspects have changed since then...so please, no "Did you know this thread is laik 8 years old, dude?" replies, because: Yep, I know.
First, the background: My car has around 225k miles on it. Mid-1995 production ODB-I 325i, which in my opinion is amongst the last of the best. I got it with about 130k miles most of a decade ago, and it's always been temperamental in certain weather, but always a joy and at least consistent with weather (preferring cold and wet, but also plenty fun in hot and dry).
In my ownership, the drivetrain has had the following relevant changes: Multiple sets of spark plugs and connectors (f'n connector springs), a set of new coils, an auto-to-manual swap due to a failed auto tranny (along with a used O2 sensor swap){, a valve cover gasket, fan delete, cleaning the MAF (with -proper- CRC MAF cleaner)....
The car has been largely problem-free for me in terms of engine-management and internals, aside from wear items, and it's my DD: I take this car everywhere.
So, the problem: An acceleration wall at 2k, which is intermittent: Sometimes it's fine, sometimes it isn't.
I ordered a new Denso O2, which should be here after the holiday weekend. Thought about getting Bosch, but apparently OEM Bosch and aftermarket Bosch are two different things, and I try hard to get the best, most appropriate parts I can, whenever possible...and aftermarket Bosch set off red flags in my little pea brain. The car has reported (stomp-test) that the O2 sensor has been out-of-spec (and yep, I know that it doesn't necessarily mean that the O2 is out of spec).
I try to keep the intake plenums clean, with various stages of disassembly and application of Seafoam of carb cleaner or brake cleaner or a toothbrush or whatever automotive-oriented hydrocarbon solvent is convenient. I've yanked the ICV and cleaned it a few times over the course of time, which seems to be par for the course on this engine.
Idle is currently just fine: Really, perfectly smooth and low (with my wire-clip mod for the tranny swap, but that's in another thread), at around 600RPM, and very stable after couple of seconds of hunting when, say, dropping the engine from high-speed, high-load to zero throttle input, but: Gosh, I think it's doing fine with that.
It's just like so many (but not all!) other posters proclaim: Things are OK, but there is a giant flat-spot starting around 2k. Careful application of throttle (instead of just mashing the pedal to the floor) seems to make better acceleration and allow safe highway merges, as if NOS or turbo were at play on a less powerful motor.
But I've calibrated my throttle plate so that when the pedal is up, the throttle plate is 100% closed with a tiny amount of slack in the cable. I've added a (hardware-store) pedal stop in place of the kickdown switch of the auto, so that when the pedal is against the stop, the throttle plate is at 90 degrees to the intake plenum -- ie, fully open.
Here are my theories, for those who can read this far (sorry, no actually I'm not sorry: No TL;DR version):
The ODB-I E36 Vanos M50 BMW has a lot of sensors, and a lot of fantastic programming in the DME out-of-the-box.
So much of the confusion on this thread can be explained, simply, by suggesting that BMW/Bosch designed the systems with a wide range of fault tolerance:
It uses intake temperature, and engine coolant temperature, and a cam sensor, and a crank sensor, and a MAF sensor, and a knock sensor and tries its damnest to make the engine work perfectly....before balancing that against the output of a singular O2 sensor in the exhaust path -- all without knowing whether a misfire or intake leak (aka valve cover gasket leak) is happening.
It occurs to me that it might be the case that -several- things might be progressing toward "wrong" before the systems goes noticeably awry.
It also occurs to me that all of the cat-hacks are variously wrong: The ODB-II converter/mid-pipe swap moves the O2 to one bank of three cylinders, in the best case -- which is not what the DME expects. The track-pipe swap involves O2 foolers, which is also not what the DME expects.
And though I'm perfectly willing to run track pipes (my state does not smog, at all, ever), all I want is to restore the car to its previous health.
So I'll post again once I put the new Amazon-sourced Denso O2 sensor in, and give it/the car/myself some time to become used to eachother.
My car hesitated every time I climbed this steep section of highway. I would try to accelerate to get to 65 mph and it would slowly accelerate. I used a can of CRC Intake Valve Cleaner and the car just goes. The car just pulled this extra power out of her ass! Smooth and responsive. I guess my car had a lot of gunk build up because I felt a instant change when driving uphill. My oil was black. I tried Caticlean , Seafoam, maf cleaner nothing beats CRC IVC. I highly recommend using this along with CRC complete fuel system cleaner as the first step in troubleshooting any power issues.
I am not a spokesman.
Does the $100 include the beer?
I have a problem w/ this being the CATS, if they were plugged/restricted, it would be WORSE @ high RPMS when more flow is required.
I have the same problem, (bogging-hesitating-no-acceleration-from-idle runs great when cold).
I get a misfire #3, moved the coil to #4 & the problem moved along with it(so, I ordered another coil w/ boot waiting for it to arrive).
Hope that fixes it.
Also, hose #4 is off the check valve, & I cant get to it(will try a mirror).
Can runs great when the wet vac(air pump) is running.
We need to keep in mind, that this happens when the engine warms up so, there isn't anything mechanical w/ the engine wrong unless it's a cracked head as the crack will open when heated.
I am a marine mechanic, not a BMW tech.
But I do work on engines...
- - - Updated - - -
Sounds like it has been getting quite a workout !
I am still waiting on my parts(none available here).
Changed coil that i swapped & moved the PO 303 to PO 304 I got a pair on ebay(Chinese) for $30 for both, including shipping!
Car runs great now, but the vacuum hose is off the EGR? valve the airpump connects to.
My car ran fine cold, ran like $hit warm & hot.
I didn't re-set the computer, code gone, cel gone, maybe I'm lucky (I hope).
When the car got warm, acted like I had a lumpy cam, shook like hell!
But a geo metro could take me idle to mid range.
- - - Updated - - -
True, is hg goes down, but the volume (CF) of air is drastically increased!
- - - Updated - - -
Ohm test is a static test...you could check for a open or short...that's about it!
these coils probably put out around 50,000 volts (just a # I thought up shooting off the hip).
ALOT can happen with those voltages & loads....
Hi Guys,
I had very similar symptoms with my 328i - intermittent misfire, especially once the car has reached operating temperature, and this happened even more often if the ambient temperatures were quite high as well. Typically it would feel like all spark/fuel was cut to the cylinders and then it would feel like it was running on 5 cylinders or even in limp mode. Diagnostics picked up no errors and no one could tell me w.t.f. was going on - so I did the following:
Replaced all 6 coil packs and suppressors - problem still persists
Replace CVV and all vacuum pipes - problem still there
Replace fuel pressure regulator - same nonsense
Test fuel injectors , compression etc. - no fault found
Replace coil pack harness - still
Took it back to indy - and eventually it was found this was caused by the vibration damper (crank pulley) that had failed ! Due to age the rubber damper has fatigued which causes the crank sensor to every now and again "lose" the pickup and in turn generate a misfire error to the ECU. So BEFORE you go and spend a LOT of money on other parts like I did - check this part out first
I really do hope this will help someone else with the same issue - my car has about 400 000 km's on the clock so I guess it was due
Resurrecting this again.
I noticed this little issue every once a while, and its becoming more and more of a nuisance.
Often there is a GIANT FLAT SPOT of POWER between 1500 - 3000 RPM, makes it more unsafe to merge into traffic and taking turns, sometimes it would be just fine, some other times it would do this.
I am puzzled to what and why, The car has new Crank and Cam sensors, Fuel Filter, Sparks, VCG, all the nitty gritty short of a O2 sensor and maybe Crank Pulley Vibration Dampener or Rebuilding VANOS although I think vanos is good, this is an interment problem, comes and goes. Just not sure..
Any help please
"So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."
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Check for vacuum leaks. Seems like a redundant thing to say on this forum, but a majority of hesitation problems appear to stem from this issue. Mine certainly was cured by ridding myself of the few that I did have along with the following:
Check your MAF
Clean your throttle body
Good hunting
Changed spark plugs on my 92 318i with OEM NGK coppers and now it feels like a misfire, the car idles a little rough and feels gutless during acceleration. It ran perfectly fine before I changed the plugs..
I hand tightened them down, snugged them with the ratchet then torqued them down 1/4 of a full turn. This is how I've always done it on aluminum heads without issue, about 6 months ago I inspected the plugs and tightened them down like this without issue. I changed the plugs purely for maintenance, I did not have any ignition problems prior to this.
I feel a little foolish now for throwing away the old plugs before test driving the car with the new plugs. The old plugs were BKR6EK NGK, the new plugs are the exact same brand and model. The old plugs looked like you'd expect, tan and the electrode was worn down a bit/rounded on the edges instead of squared off but other than that nothing that seemed out of the ordinary.
When I put the plugs back on 2, 3 & 4's boot make a loud pop sound when connecting to the spark plug, but 1 made a very light pop sound like it had a weaker clip, it was on there though I gave it a slight tug and it was connected. I'm gonna have to pop the wires off and double check it in a few hours once the sun is up lol.
Last edited by DotBeta; 02-20-2016 at 07:54 AM.
By "loud pop" I mean the snapping sound when the boot connects to the sparkplug, 1 hardly made a sound. I'm positive I didn't mix the wires up because a while ago I used a yellow paint pen to mark the top of the boots I II III IIII to their respective cylinder. I also only removed 1 boot at a time while changing them.
I'll do a stomp test once I go over the plug wires again to see if anything pops up. It's 6am here why can't time go faster lol.
UPDATE:
I popped the boots, put them back on gave em a little wiggle and now it's fine. I'll invest on some new wires in the near future.
p.s. I also did a stomp test and threw no codes.
Last edited by DotBeta; 02-20-2016 at 10:57 AM.
I cleaned them both and ICV and all that, not sure where this vac leak could be,
I wonder if its bad O2 sensors as I once got these codes, Bank 1 and 2 Seems to be related to 02 Sensor? Do we replace both O2 sensors or just one, I am unsure how many this car has. Do remember seeing 2 connectors
RESULT: 5 errors in error memory !
-------------------------------------------------------------
52 muffler flap
Error frequency : 255
Logistic counter: 40
Engine speed 0.00 rpm
engine load 0.00 mg/Stroke
Engine temperature 52.86 degrees C
Battery Voltage 11.93 Volt
Short circuit to ground
defect code stored after filtering
Error present
Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
203 fuel trim limit Bank 2
Error frequency : 3
Logistic counter: 40
Engine speed 768.00 rpm
Engine temperature 93.20 degrees C
oxygen sensor heater 79.37 %
oxygen sensor voltage 2 4.82 Volt
Short circuit to batt+
emission related malfunction
defect code stored after filtering
Error not present
Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
202 fuel trim limit Bank 1
Error frequency : 5
Logistic counter: 40
Engine speed 768.00 rpm
Engine temperature 93.20 degrees C
oxygen sensor heater 79.37 %
oxygen sensor voltage 1 4.82 Volt
Short circuit to batt+
emission related malfunction
defect code stored after filtering
Error not present
Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
14 Temperature sensor intake air
Error frequency : 4
Logistic counter: 39
Engine speed 3392.00 rpm
engine load 299.59 mg/Stroke
Engine temperature 90.21 degrees C
Intake air temperature -39.78 degrees C
Short circuit to ground
emission related malfunction
defect code stored after filtering
Error not present
Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
200 oxygen sensor voltage rise 1
Error frequency : 1
Logistic counter: 40
Engine speed 1024.00 rpm
oxygen sensor voltage (rich) 3008.00 Volt
oxygen sensor heater 25.02 %
oxygen sensor voltage 1 1.86 Volt
emission related malfunction
emission related malfunction
defect code stored after filtering
Error present
Static error
===============
"So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."
Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??
recent discovery, my pipe from bov recirculation broke! never use plastic joiners, no matter how thick,
"So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."
Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??
You have a cell code for a muffler flap? Lolz! That's kinda cool. Ha. ... Ya.. Mine turned out to be the DME.. Sperratic errors.
ever clean your 02 sensors? I might clean mine... how much are they over there?? cant even get my guy to give me a price yet..lazy bs service.. PITA to own these cars here..
"So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."
Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??
o2 sensor $170 EACH.. I'll just take mine out and clean them out..one of these days.. :/
Yea man, my muffler flap, I deleted it 2 years ago, never had a code, recently while installing the water injection well I disconnected the little electric valve that controls the flap, I reconnected it, but hell, still the same code never goes away even after a full erase. a guy here said I needed to turn it off from the code itself, never got around to that either, will ask my tuner to off it when he does the next tune.
"So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."
Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??
Re re resurrection again! things were fine when I fixed my bov issue, until now, I am now having a boggin down issue when gas is mashed again under 3000rpm.. the afr gauge shows its leaning out completely then all of a sudden picks up! and car runs then boggs down again, its like flooring it and then mashing the brakes again. damn lame.. wonder if there is another leak or that vibration dampner thing will do.
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The OFFICIAL Summary: bogging, hesitating, no acceleration from idle thread
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...om-idle-thread
"So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."
Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??
Front 02 for 99$
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...or-bosch-13884
Our cars have 4,
2 pre cat [sensors 1, Bank 1 & 2] and two post cat [sensor 2 bank 1&2]
Bank one refers to the first half of the cylinders (1,2,3 for example) and the second bank refers to the other 3.
The pre cat sensors are connected into the headers, 1 for each. They help with your air-to-fuel ratio, so a bad 02 could mess up that ratio. directly effecting your performance. I just ordered two as i had one go out and i would reccomend that you replace both at the same time due to the new one having stricter allowances than the old worn out one, and these two differances in allowances could cause more problems then it solves.
The two post cat just measure the air coming through the cat to make sure they are working. These can be deleted with a 02 simulator.
Yes you can use some ford 02 sensors.
Last edited by Thrifty S50; 09-01-2016 at 02:24 PM.
Came across this thread looking for other info.
Just to clarify on Ford sensors, they are only for OBD1 or other model BMW's. OBD2 E36's use titania sensors and are not compatible. The other tech is zirconia, the two are not interchangeable. One operates on 0-1V the other on 0-5V It doesn't matter how many wires, it matters on what the sensor technology is, they are not compatible.
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