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Thread: The OFFICIAL bogging, hesitating, no acceleration from idle thread

  1. #2526
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    Temecula, CA
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    1,369
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    1997 540i6, 2009 135i
    Sounds like a temperature sensor of some kind.

    o 1997 540i6 o Dinan supercharger system o Dinan stage 3 suspension system o Dinan wheels o UUC EVO3 SSK/DSSR o SS Headers o M-Tech illuminated shifter o M5 3.62 LSD o Cubic trim o Gauge rings o OEM In-dash CD o Ultimate pedals o Hella AE's o M-Sport Steering Wheel o 400 RWHP o A/W intercooler o Killer Chiller

  2. #2527
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    So Cal
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    My Cars
    F10 535i, S50 in red
    Quote Originally Posted by faternal View Post
    Today i picked up a new set of bosch coilpacks and installed them. check all the spark plugs- there looking good upon first start it cranked immediately and i took it for a drive to warm it up. went okay at first then as soon as the engine warmed up it started backfiring or missing (not sure) and stalled almost every time i stopped at lights or stop signs. idles well at 14.7-15 afr and the surging wasn't as bad but the stalling was much worse. I made the car officially undrive-able today
    Turned out to be spark plus for the missfire
    Then four intake leaks i found with a smoke test
    A kinked icv hose that was very soft
    Hard starting problem fixed with fpr and filter
    Still randomly stalling when fully warm

    When dropping from 1.5-2k into idle while stopping the car will die sometimes. If i let the car idle down all the way to 600 then go into neutral it will not stall. I feel like this is also creating a hesitation going into first gear almost always.
    I have cleaned icv replaced plug, coils, boots, fpr and fuel filter, grounded my ecu to chassis, it seems better when cold but still hesitant

    This sucks..... My car drives amazing otherwise

  3. #2528
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Findlay, Ohio
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    My Cars
    1995 325i, 1979 Firebird

    Exclamation

    Thread resurrection

    So, I'm having some hesitation issues on my ODB-I E36. I've read through several hundred posts on this thread, and as far as I (and Google) can tell, this really is the official thread for E36 hesitation, even if it is ancient. Some of the participants have sold/lost/wrecked their car, but it's still a great thread and it's not like the mechanical aspects have changed since then...so please, no "Did you know this thread is laik 8 years old, dude?" replies, because: Yep, I know.

    First, the background: My car has around 225k miles on it. Mid-1995 production ODB-I 325i, which in my opinion is amongst the last of the best. I got it with about 130k miles most of a decade ago, and it's always been temperamental in certain weather, but always a joy and at least consistent with weather (preferring cold and wet, but also plenty fun in hot and dry).

    In my ownership, the drivetrain has had the following relevant changes: Multiple sets of spark plugs and connectors (f'n connector springs), a set of new coils, an auto-to-manual swap due to a failed auto tranny (along with a used O2 sensor swap){, a valve cover gasket, fan delete, cleaning the MAF (with -proper- CRC MAF cleaner)....

    The car has been largely problem-free for me in terms of engine-management and internals, aside from wear items, and it's my DD: I take this car everywhere.

    So, the problem: An acceleration wall at 2k, which is intermittent: Sometimes it's fine, sometimes it isn't.

    I ordered a new Denso O2, which should be here after the holiday weekend. Thought about getting Bosch, but apparently OEM Bosch and aftermarket Bosch are two different things, and I try hard to get the best, most appropriate parts I can, whenever possible...and aftermarket Bosch set off red flags in my little pea brain. The car has reported (stomp-test) that the O2 sensor has been out-of-spec (and yep, I know that it doesn't necessarily mean that the O2 is out of spec).

    I try to keep the intake plenums clean, with various stages of disassembly and application of Seafoam of carb cleaner or brake cleaner or a toothbrush or whatever automotive-oriented hydrocarbon solvent is convenient. I've yanked the ICV and cleaned it a few times over the course of time, which seems to be par for the course on this engine.

    Idle is currently just fine: Really, perfectly smooth and low (with my wire-clip mod for the tranny swap, but that's in another thread), at around 600RPM, and very stable after couple of seconds of hunting when, say, dropping the engine from high-speed, high-load to zero throttle input, but: Gosh, I think it's doing fine with that.

    It's just like so many (but not all!) other posters proclaim: Things are OK, but there is a giant flat-spot starting around 2k. Careful application of throttle (instead of just mashing the pedal to the floor) seems to make better acceleration and allow safe highway merges, as if NOS or turbo were at play on a less powerful motor.

    But I've calibrated my throttle plate so that when the pedal is up, the throttle plate is 100% closed with a tiny amount of slack in the cable. I've added a (hardware-store) pedal stop in place of the kickdown switch of the auto, so that when the pedal is against the stop, the throttle plate is at 90 degrees to the intake plenum -- ie, fully open.

    Here are my theories, for those who can read this far (sorry, no actually I'm not sorry: No TL;DR version):

    The ODB-I E36 Vanos M50 BMW has a lot of sensors, and a lot of fantastic programming in the DME out-of-the-box.

    So much of the confusion on this thread can be explained, simply, by suggesting that BMW/Bosch designed the systems with a wide range of fault tolerance:

    It uses intake temperature, and engine coolant temperature, and a cam sensor, and a crank sensor, and a MAF sensor, and a knock sensor and tries its damnest to make the engine work perfectly....before balancing that against the output of a singular O2 sensor in the exhaust path -- all without knowing whether a misfire or intake leak (aka valve cover gasket leak) is happening.

    It occurs to me that it might be the case that -several- things might be progressing toward "wrong" before the systems goes noticeably awry.

    It also occurs to me that all of the cat-hacks are variously wrong: The ODB-II converter/mid-pipe swap moves the O2 to one bank of three cylinders, in the best case -- which is not what the DME expects. The track-pipe swap involves O2 foolers, which is also not what the DME expects.

    And though I'm perfectly willing to run track pipes (my state does not smog, at all, ever), all I want is to restore the car to its previous health.

    So I'll post again once I put the new Amazon-sourced Denso O2 sensor in, and give it/the car/myself some time to become used to eachother.

  4. #2529
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    richmond va
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    698
    My Cars
    bmw

    So whats the solution

    Quote Originally Posted by 540-S3 View Post
    Sounds like a temperature sensor of some kind.
    Hey guys so i been having the same issue under low rpm i been reading almost half of the thread. Been scamming through some pages but no one got a solid solution for this issue?

  5. #2530
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Columbus, GA
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    218
    My Cars
    1994 BMW 325i saloon
    My car hesitated every time I climbed this steep section of highway. I would try to accelerate to get to 65 mph and it would slowly accelerate. I used a can of CRC Intake Valve Cleaner and the car just goes. The car just pulled this extra power out of her ass! Smooth and responsive. I guess my car had a lot of gunk build up because I felt a instant change when driving uphill. My oil was black. I tried Caticlean , Seafoam, maf cleaner nothing beats CRC IVC. I highly recommend using this along with CRC complete fuel system cleaner as the first step in troubleshooting any power issues.
    I am not a spokesman.

  6. #2531
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    Oct 2010
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    US
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    1996 Z3
    Quote Originally Posted by jordanmgregory View Post
    Well my local German parts place down the road happens to have an OEM FPR in stock for $50 so I'm going to get off work at 4, stop off for some beer and then hopefully install the FPR and a new filter by around 7 tonight. And all for less than $100.

    Does the $100 include the beer?
    I have a problem w/ this being the CATS, if they were plugged/restricted, it would be WORSE @ high RPMS when more flow is required.
    I have the same problem, (bogging-hesitating-no-acceleration-from-idle runs great when cold).
    I get a misfire #3, moved the coil to #4 & the problem moved along with it(so, I ordered another coil w/ boot waiting for it to arrive).
    Hope that fixes it.
    Also, hose #4 is off the check valve, & I cant get to it(will try a mirror).
    Can runs great when the wet vac(air pump) is running.
    We need to keep in mind, that this happens when the engine warms up so, there isn't anything mechanical w/ the engine wrong unless it's a cracked head as the crack will open when heated.
    I am a marine mechanic, not a BMW tech.
    But I do work on engines...



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dmurray14 View Post
    AHHHH

    It is one thing after another with this car. Just went out to play around with the coils and THE HOOD CABLE SNAPPED. Shit. Guess I have to replace the whole damn cable now? This should be great.

    Dan
    Sounds like it has been getting quite a workout !
    I am still waiting on my parts(none available here).

  7. #2532
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    US
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    My Cars
    1996 Z3

    Thumbs up Bogging down

    Changed coil that i swapped & moved the PO 303 to PO 304 I got a pair on ebay(Chinese) for $30 for both, including shipping!
    Car runs great now, but the vacuum hose is off the EGR? valve the airpump connects to.
    My car ran fine cold, ran like $hit warm & hot.

    I didn't re-set the computer, code gone, cel gone, maybe I'm lucky (I hope).
    When the car got warm, acted like I had a lumpy cam, shook like hell!
    But a geo metro could take me idle to mid range.

    Quote Originally Posted by dmurray14 View Post
    Chris have you tried flipping the sensors? Curious to hear your results..

    As soon as I have access to my car again I think I'm gonna go for coils & the temp sensor..
    - - - Updated - - -

    True, is hg goes down, but the volume (CF) of air is drastically increased!
    Quote Originally Posted by pchase View Post
    Actually, when you rev up an engine, the vaccuum decreases because you're no longer choking the motor with the throttle plate. Wide open throttle will give you the least amount of vaccuum while a closed throttle will give the maxiumum vacuum.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Ohm test is a static test...you could check for a open or short...that's about it!
    these coils probably put out around 50,000 volts (just a # I thought up shooting off the hip).
    ALOT can happen with those voltages & loads....
    Quote Originally Posted by dmurray14 View Post
    I just want to note that I tested the resistance on all my coils and they all checked out fine...

    I don't know whether it was the boots or the coils that were bad but replacing them fixed it.

    Dan

  8. #2533
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    1
    My Cars
    1996 bmw 328i
    Hi Guys,


    I had very similar symptoms with my 328i - intermittent misfire, especially once the car has reached operating temperature, and this happened even more often if the ambient temperatures were quite high as well. Typically it would feel like all spark/fuel was cut to the cylinders and then it would feel like it was running on 5 cylinders or even in limp mode. Diagnostics picked up no errors and no one could tell me w.t.f. was going on - so I did the following:


    Replaced all 6 coil packs and suppressors - problem still persists
    Replace CVV and all vacuum pipes - problem still there
    Replace fuel pressure regulator - same nonsense
    Test fuel injectors , compression etc. - no fault found
    Replace coil pack harness - still


    Took it back to indy - and eventually it was found this was caused by the vibration damper (crank pulley) that had failed ! Due to age the rubber damper has fatigued which causes the crank sensor to every now and again "lose" the pickup and in turn generate a misfire error to the ECU. So BEFORE you go and spend a LOT of money on other parts like I did - check this part out first


    I really do hope this will help someone else with the same issue - my car has about 400 000 km's on the clock so I guess it was due

  9. #2534
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    Quote Originally Posted by ifixit View Post
    Thread resurrection

    It's just like so many (but not all!) other posters proclaim: Things are OK, but there is a giant flat-spot starting around 2k. Careful application of throttle (instead of just mashing the pedal to the floor) seems to make better acceleration and allow safe highway merges, as if NOS or turbo were at play on a less powerful motor.

    Resurrecting this again.


    I noticed this little issue every once a while, and its becoming more and more of a nuisance.

    Often there is a GIANT FLAT SPOT of POWER between 1500 - 3000 RPM, makes it more unsafe to merge into traffic and taking turns, sometimes it would be just fine, some other times it would do this.

    I am puzzled to what and why, The car has new Crank and Cam sensors, Fuel Filter, Sparks, VCG, all the nitty gritty short of a O2 sensor and maybe Crank Pulley Vibration Dampener or Rebuilding VANOS although I think vanos is good, this is an interment problem, comes and goes. Just not sure..

    Any help please
    "So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."

    Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??



  10. #2535
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    NY
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    94 325IS
    Check for vacuum leaks. Seems like a redundant thing to say on this forum, but a majority of hesitation problems appear to stem from this issue. Mine certainly was cured by ridding myself of the few that I did have along with the following:

    Check your MAF
    Clean your throttle body

    Good hunting

  11. #2536
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    AZ
    Posts
    387
    My Cars
    96 328i, 92 318i
    Changed spark plugs on my 92 318i with OEM NGK coppers and now it feels like a misfire, the car idles a little rough and feels gutless during acceleration. It ran perfectly fine before I changed the plugs..

  12. #2537
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    May 2012
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    NY
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    94 325IS
    Quote Originally Posted by DotBeta View Post
    Changed spark plugs on my 92 318i with OEM NGK coppers and now it feels like a misfire, the car idles a little rough and feels gutless during acceleration. It ran perfectly fine before I changed the plugs..
    Did you torque them down to spec or did you free hand it? One or a few could be loose

    In what condition were your old plugs in?
    (That info would be helpful for others that might read this and know what that might mean for you)

  13. #2538
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    Jan 2015
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    AZ
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    96 328i, 92 318i
    Quote Originally Posted by JlaE36 View Post
    Did you torque them down to spec or did you free hand it? One or a few could be loose

    In what condition were your old plugs in?
    (That info would be helpful for others that might read this and know what that might mean for you)
    I hand tightened them down, snugged them with the ratchet then torqued them down 1/4 of a full turn. This is how I've always done it on aluminum heads without issue, about 6 months ago I inspected the plugs and tightened them down like this without issue. I changed the plugs purely for maintenance, I did not have any ignition problems prior to this.

    I feel a little foolish now for throwing away the old plugs before test driving the car with the new plugs. The old plugs were BKR6EK NGK, the new plugs are the exact same brand and model. The old plugs looked like you'd expect, tan and the electrode was worn down a bit/rounded on the edges instead of squared off but other than that nothing that seemed out of the ordinary.

    When I put the plugs back on 2, 3 & 4's boot make a loud pop sound when connecting to the spark plug, but 1 made a very light pop sound like it had a weaker clip, it was on there though I gave it a slight tug and it was connected. I'm gonna have to pop the wires off and double check it in a few hours once the sun is up lol.
    Last edited by DotBeta; 02-20-2016 at 07:54 AM.

  14. #2539
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    Quote Originally Posted by DotBeta View Post
    When I put the plugs back on 2, 3 & 4's boot make a loud pop sound when connecting to the spark plug, but 1 made a very light pop sound like it had a weaker clip, it was on there though I gave it a slight tug and it was connected. I'm gonna have to pop the wires off and double check it in a few hours once the sun is up lol.
    Gotta say that doesn't sound right at all, but I'm no mechanic and never experienced that myself

    Any chance you got the coils on in the wrong sequence?

  15. #2540
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    Quote Originally Posted by JlaE36 View Post
    Gotta say that doesn't sound right at all, but I'm no mechanic and never experienced that myself Any chance you got the coils on in the wrong sequence?
    Update

    By the way have you done a stomp test? Just curious if anythings popped up. No pun intended

  16. #2541
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    96 328i, 92 318i
    Quote Originally Posted by JlaE36 View Post
    Gotta say that doesn't sound right at all, but I'm no mechanic and never experienced that myself

    Any chance you got the coils on in the wrong sequence?
    By "loud pop" I mean the snapping sound when the boot connects to the sparkplug, 1 hardly made a sound. I'm positive I didn't mix the wires up because a while ago I used a yellow paint pen to mark the top of the boots I II III IIII to their respective cylinder. I also only removed 1 boot at a time while changing them.

    I'll do a stomp test once I go over the plug wires again to see if anything pops up. It's 6am here why can't time go faster lol.

    UPDATE:

    I popped the boots, put them back on gave em a little wiggle and now it's fine. I'll invest on some new wires in the near future.

    p.s. I also did a stomp test and threw no codes.
    Last edited by DotBeta; 02-20-2016 at 10:57 AM.

  17. #2542
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    Quote Originally Posted by JlaE36 View Post
    Check for vacuum leaks. Seems like a redundant thing to say on this forum, but a majority of hesitation problems appear to stem from this issue. Mine certainly was cured by ridding myself of the few that I did have along with the following:

    Check your MAF
    Clean your throttle body

    Good hunting
    I cleaned them both and ICV and all that, not sure where this vac leak could be,

    I wonder if its bad O2 sensors as I once got these codes, Bank 1 and 2 Seems to be related to 02 Sensor? Do we replace both O2 sensors or just one, I am unsure how many this car has. Do remember seeing 2 connectors

    RESULT: 5 errors in error memory !
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    52 muffler flap
    Error frequency : 255
    Logistic counter: 40
    Engine speed 0.00 rpm
    engine load 0.00 mg/Stroke
    Engine temperature 52.86 degrees C
    Battery Voltage 11.93 Volt
    Short circuit to ground
    defect code stored after filtering
    Error present
    Sporadic error
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    203 fuel trim limit Bank 2
    Error frequency : 3
    Logistic counter: 40
    Engine speed 768.00 rpm
    Engine temperature 93.20 degrees C
    oxygen sensor heater 79.37 %
    oxygen sensor voltage 2 4.82 Volt
    Short circuit to batt+
    emission related malfunction
    defect code stored after filtering
    Error not present
    Sporadic error
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    202 fuel trim limit Bank 1
    Error frequency : 5
    Logistic counter: 40
    Engine speed 768.00 rpm
    Engine temperature 93.20 degrees C
    oxygen sensor heater 79.37 %
    oxygen sensor voltage 1 4.82 Volt
    Short circuit to batt+
    emission related malfunction
    defect code stored after filtering
    Error not present
    Sporadic error
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    14 Temperature sensor intake air
    Error frequency : 4
    Logistic counter: 39
    Engine speed 3392.00 rpm
    engine load 299.59 mg/Stroke
    Engine temperature 90.21 degrees C
    Intake air temperature -39.78 degrees C
    Short circuit to ground
    emission related malfunction
    defect code stored after filtering
    Error not present
    Sporadic error
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    200 oxygen sensor voltage rise 1
    Error frequency : 1
    Logistic counter: 40
    Engine speed 1024.00 rpm
    oxygen sensor voltage (rich) 3008.00 Volt
    oxygen sensor heater 25.02 %
    oxygen sensor voltage 1 1.86 Volt
    emission related malfunction
    emission related malfunction
    defect code stored after filtering
    Error present
    Static error
    ===============
    "So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."

    Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??



  18. #2543
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    recent discovery, my pipe from bov recirculation broke! never use plastic joiners, no matter how thick,
    "So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."

    Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??



  19. #2544
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    1993 318is/who to knows
    You have a cell code for a muffler flap? Lolz! That's kinda cool. Ha. ... Ya.. Mine turned out to be the DME.. Sperratic errors.

  20. #2545
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    ever clean your 02 sensors? I might clean mine... how much are they over there?? cant even get my guy to give me a price yet..lazy bs service.. PITA to own these cars here..
    "So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."

    Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??



  21. #2546
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    o2 sensor $170 EACH.. I'll just take mine out and clean them out..one of these days.. :/

    Yea man, my muffler flap, I deleted it 2 years ago, never had a code, recently while installing the water injection well I disconnected the little electric valve that controls the flap, I reconnected it, but hell, still the same code never goes away even after a full erase. a guy here said I needed to turn it off from the code itself, never got around to that either, will ask my tuner to off it when he does the next tune.
    "So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."

    Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??



  22. #2547
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    Mar 2010
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    Calgary, Alberta
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    E36 STX
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterM52 View Post
    o2 sensor $170 EACH.. I'll just take mine out and clean them out..one of these days.. :/Yea man, my muffler flap, I deleted it 2 years ago, never had a code, recently while installing the water injection well I disconnected the little electric valve that controls the flap, I reconnected it, but hell, still the same code never goes away even after a full erase. a guy here said I needed to turn it off from the code itself, never got around to that either, will ask my tuner to off it when he does the next tune.
    You can fudge a ford O2 sensor, just need to resplice some wires. It's less than half the cost. Do a search, it's on this forum somewhere.

  23. #2548
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    Re re resurrection again! things were fine when I fixed my bov issue, until now, I am now having a boggin down issue when gas is mashed again under 3000rpm.. the afr gauge shows its leaning out completely then all of a sudden picks up! and car runs then boggs down again, its like flooring it and then mashing the brakes again. damn lame.. wonder if there is another leak or that vibration dampner thing will do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The OFFICIAL Summary: bogging, hesitating, no acceleration from idle thread

    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...om-idle-thread
    "So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."

    Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??



  24. #2549
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    Mar 2013
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    2003 E46 M3 / E30 Vert
    Front 02 for 99$

    https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...or-bosch-13884

    Our cars have 4,
    2 pre cat [sensors 1, Bank 1 & 2] and two post cat [sensor 2 bank 1&2]

    Bank one refers to the first half of the cylinders (1,2,3 for example) and the second bank refers to the other 3.

    The pre cat sensors are connected into the headers, 1 for each. They help with your air-to-fuel ratio, so a bad 02 could mess up that ratio. directly effecting your performance. I just ordered two as i had one go out and i would reccomend that you replace both at the same time due to the new one having stricter allowances than the old worn out one, and these two differances in allowances could cause more problems then it solves.

    The two post cat just measure the air coming through the cat to make sure they are working. These can be deleted with a 02 simulator.

    Yes you can use some ford 02 sensors.
    Last edited by Thrifty S50; 09-01-2016 at 02:24 PM.

  25. #2550
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    1997 328i
    Came across this thread looking for other info.

    Just to clarify on Ford sensors, they are only for OBD1 or other model BMW's. OBD2 E36's use titania sensors and are not compatible. The other tech is zirconia, the two are not interchangeable. One operates on 0-1V the other on 0-5V It doesn't matter how many wires, it matters on what the sensor technology is, they are not compatible.

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