How do you drive your car?

[Aestheticus]

Summary in the last paragraph for those who don't feel like reading.

Since I'm still trying to decide what my next car will be, I've been doing research on the cars that I want so I know what I'm getting myself into and I've come across a lot of posters who say their BMWs are money pits and other posters who have almost no problems. It seems there is really no in between. Either posters say they've dumped a lot of money repairing their cars or posters feel they're the "lucky ones" who got a car that was good to them. It got me thinking...how do these people drive their cars? Do the ones who spend loads on repairs drive like assholes? Do the ones who feel lucky drive very conservatively?

I currently know 3 people with cars over 200k and I don't think it's a coincidence they're all elderly. All are relatives above the age of 60 and I highly doubt their engines ever rev past 2500. Do people overlook their driving styles when they look at their car's reliability? Do all the posters who complain about how much money they've spent never take a step back to see if they beat the hell out of their cars? Maybe they should drive more responsibly. Do the people who feel lucky to not have spent a lot ever take a step back and realize maybe it isn't the car, but their driving style that prevented problems?

I'm asking because I've had this E36 M3 for about 5 years and over those 5 years I've spent maybe 3000 in repairs. I'm not including money spent on stuff like oil changes. I'm only including what I've spent on stuff that broke. So in 5 years I spent 3000 in repairs and my car runs great at 131,xxx. I don't take it to a dealer. I take it to an independent shop in NJ called Bimmer Clinic so I know quality work was done.

To sum that wall of text up: Are BMWs really as unreliable as people claim or does the brand just attract a lot of people who drive like douches? Maybe the reason a Honda Accord is reliable isn't because the car itself is more reliable than a BMW, but because the people who buy Accords are mostly family oriented and drive in a more responsible/conservative way. Maybe BMWs themselves aren't unreliable, but the hoards of rich guys showing off while they drive put a negative light to the brand.

[Rudolph320i]

They arent as unreliable as people love to claim. You have a car that is at least 16 years old, things that age will need replacing. Ive had 3 e30s and an e21, I beat my cars like redheaded step children, but I make sure to stay up on maintenance. Keep up on the car and it will run just fine for a long time.

[Aestheticus]

They arent as unreliable as people love to claim. You have a car that is at least 16 years old, things that age will need replacing. Ive had 3 e30s and an e21, I beat my cars like redheaded step children, but I make sure to stay up on maintenance. Keep up on the car and it will run just fine for a long time.

I don't doubt that and I do plan on keeping it, but I want a more comfortable daily driver and it isn't cutting it anymore. Too "raw" for commutes to work which is why I'm in the market for something more comfortable.

I just realized I never even answered my original thread question. When I first got the car, I drove it pretty hard as it was a major upgrade from my <100hp POS first car. After about a year, I started driving a lot more conservatively.

[beshannon]

Summary in the last paragraph for those who don't feel like reading.


To sum that wall of text up: Are BMWs really as unreliable as people claim or does the brand just attract a lot of people who drive like douches? Maybe the reason a Honda Accord is reliable isn't because the car itself is more reliable than a BMW, but because the people who buy Accords are mostly family oriented and drive in a more responsible/conservative way. Maybe BMWs themselves aren't unreliable, but the hoards of rich guys showing off while they drive put a negative light to the brand.

I will avoid all the posturing, pandering and trolling to get a rise out of people and respond factually.

I have owned, BMW's, Honda's, Acura's, Mercedes and Volvo's.

Of my two BMW's, my 330i was very good for 50K requiring very little in the way of unexpected maintenance or repair.
My 550i was reliable ie., it never left me stranded but a failed transmission and many more failed or worn out parts below 30K total miles convinced me that my car was not going to be a long term car. I had the car for 30 months and 21K miles and spent $8200 to maintain and repair it.

Neither my Honda's, Acura's or Mercedes have ever needed that much in repairs/maintenance in a comparable amount of time.

You are free to draw your own conclusions.

[sullypants1]

I'm the fourth owner of a 17 year old e36 M3; 208,000 miles, bought it 15 months ago. I'm 20 years old and I beat the sh1t out of my car, with the thought "WHEN it breaks, fix it." Auto-x once a month, well now its more like twice/month, if I drive the car it's getting taken to redline at-least once, little skids everywhere and I love to hold it in gear forever.

I've had to do a lot of catch up maintenance that the PO 'forgot' to do. Just about everything in the front suspension is new/ upgraded, half of the rear suspension is rebuilt/ upgraded, rebuilt vanos, CCV, belts, plugs, all filters, all fluids both chain tensioners, tranny/ motor mounts. First year I'm down $1.6k (and 40 hours) for what is almost a new car...drive-wise. In my opinion that's a lot of stuff for the money.

A BMW has high running cost, no doubt about it, but I feel it's independent of the way you drive it. If I drove a Honda* the way I drive my e36 it would cost just as much, but drive a Honda reasonably and it rewards with superb 200K+ maintenance free mileage. A BMW is going to need cooling system done at 60k, no matter how you drove it or tranny mounts at 50k, so might as well drive the piss out of it.

Not to mention the level of a new BMW is higher than a new Toyota, it has farther to fall over it's life time, as things loosen up it's more noticeable.

There is also a difference in philosophy between 'disposable appliances' and and 'creating something that is worth it's time in replacing parts.'

Just some anecdotal bs: I have a few buddies with other old cars from the same era, K-series, b-series, 240x; they all have their problems. A friends family had a lexus 350 that car was always having work done to it; ac, electronics, etc.

*and I love my Hondas

[BimmerBreaker]

I drive my car with a steering wheel and pedals as well as a shift lever

[323i E30]

Like I stole it. Only when the engine is at temp though.

[slocar]

It's 20 years old and has 230k miles, so I expect things to break all the time ... the stuff that really matters (and makes it run and drive well) breaks far less than what I would expect on a car of this vintage.

That said, I don't baby it: I drive it exactly how the mood takes me at any given moment ... it sees redline at least a couple times a day, I corner as hard as laws of physics will allow etc.

Anyone who expects any car that has over a 100k miles to be trouble free, regardless of what it is, is delusional ... be it a Honda or a BMW they all need things ... now how much and what kind of things, that's different, but they all need them.

[montaillou]

It appears that OP's idea of driving like a jerk involves driving fast and hard. Whereas I feel driving like a jerk involves tail gating, unsafe lane changes, failing to signal, flashing lights, in short: being a Richard to other drivers on the road.

I still own my first car, a '85 Subaru wagon with 208k miles, and I put those on while I was under the age of 40.

I drive my bmw quick (don't speed much, but like quick acceleration) and hard, I guess like a jerk according to OP, but I've only spent about $2500 on repairs my '03 z4 which, as second owner, I've had for 7 years, and 63k miles, 95% of its miles. Aside from two front brake jobs, the other repairs I've done had absolutely nothing to do with my driving style. However, I believe the z4 was designed for my driving style in mind and even more aggressive ones - I also autocross it, with no modifications.

IMO, OP should buy a Honda, if you're not comfortable with a car, don't buy it.

[vincedahl]

I have a 2003 subaru baja that I bought for $500 with 333000 Miles on the original motor trans was swapped 100k ago its a 5 speed and I daily her to work. I beat the hell out of her on the regular shit still breaks get used to it. Ive had a couple cars that made it over 200K change your oil regularly and do timing belts at recommended intervals and you should have no worries besides easy maintenance like cvs struts and wheel bearings.

[bmwahba46]

It appears that OP's idea of driving like a jerk involves driving fast and hard. Whereas I feel driving like a jerk involves tail gating, unsafe lane changes, failing to signal, flashing lights, in short: being a Richard to other drivers on the road.

I still own my first car, a '85 Subaru wagon with 208k miles, and I put those on while I was under the age of 40.

I drive my bmw quick (don't speed much, but like quick acceleration) and hard, I guess like a jerk according to OP, but I've only spent about $2500 on repairs my '03 z4 which, as second owner, I've had for 7 years, and 63k miles, 95% of its miles. Aside from two front brake jobs, the other repairs I've done had absolutely nothing to do with my driving style. However, I believe the z4 was designed for my driving style in mind and even more aggressive ones - I also autocross it, with no modifications.

IMO, OP should buy a Honda, if you're not comfortable with a car, don't buy it.

This x100.

I don't see a reason to baby the car, because if something is going to break, it's going to break either way. I follow a "if it's broke fix it" philosophy with my car. I've owned my E36 m3 for about 3 months so far, I've spent about $700 in maintenance catch up from the PO. Still have a ways to go, and lots of stuff to fix/replace, but I don't drive my car any more conservatively because of that.

Great thread topic, when I first got a BMW I too used to be very worried about driving it too hard, but then I realized, that's why I bought the car in the first place, to enjoy it.

[Colo Springs E]

I will avoid all the posturing, pandering and trolling to get a rise out of people and respond factually.

I have owned, BMW's, Honda's, Acura's, Mercedes and Volvo's.

Of my two BMW's, my 330i was very good for 50K requiring very little in the way of unexpected maintenance or repair.
My 550i was reliable ie., it never left me stranded but a failed transmission and many more failed or worn out parts below 30K total miles convinced me that my car was not going to be a long term car. I had the car for 30 months and 21K miles and spent $8200 to maintain and repair it.

Neither my Honda's, Acura's or Mercedes have ever needed that much in repairs/maintenance in a comparable amount of time.

You are free to draw your own conclusions.

In my (and my family's) experience, Japanese cars in general have been extremely reliable.

I don't consider BMWs unreliable, but they'll never likely be as consistently reliable as Hondas, Toyotas, etc. I think you have to stay on top of maintenance a lot more with a BMW, but that the drivetrains are usually good for 100s of 1000s of miles. And the driving experience itself is superior to the Japanese autos.

Also, if you find a good indy shop (if you can't wrench yourself), I haven't found the repair costs much more than any other brands.

Just my experience and opinion.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyone who expects any car that has over a 100k miles to be trouble free, regardless of what it is, is delusional ...

Maybe so, but I bought a 1989 Toyota Corolla brand new and other than timing belt/water pumps that I changed voluntarily at around 75k intervals, it needed nothing except brakes until about 200k. From 200-275k when I sold it to a friend, I had some carb work done on it once (not actually rebuilt though), distributor cap/plugs/wires, and I had the exhaust replaced. That's it. Nothing else. At some point the rear defroster didn't completely quit working, but seemed a bit less effective. The paint was beginning to show signs of fading around the time I sold it (after nearly 20 years).

And it never. NEVER. Not once-- not one. single. time. Failed me. Never.

My friend had to replace the original clutch at 315k.

Amazingly reliable car.

[ladyluxury1987]

In 2004 I bought a 1994 Honda Accord manual with 140k miles that had been rode hard and put away wet by POs. I was 16, just learning to drive a stick and trying to keep up with my guy friends who were all "fast and furious": basically I beat the ever loving piss out of it. Owned it for 6+ years and only ever put a new distributor cap in it and chose to do timing belt and water pump just because of accords notoriety for having problems with them. (Granted there was lots that could have used some attention like suspension but nothing that kept me from continuing to drive the car long distances and like I stole it). Sold it my brother with 186k miles on it and it got him another 2 years and 40k miles with no problems. In over 6 years I spent $350 on maintenance (beyond tires, oil and batteries).

Now I have a 2001 330i with 140k miles on it that needs all new front end driving parts, hoses replaced, basically about $700-1200 worth of parts and I dare say that the previous owners were not driving this vehicle like a hormonal teenager. So I would say some of it is the car and things that are designed poorly or with limited flaws (or a give and take like handling for parts wear) and others are how the person drives it. My bimmer never crosses 3000rpms and rarely sees more than 2500. I'm sure that $700-1200 worth of new parts will last me quite a while. Definitely worth it, I love her.

[sullypants1]

My bimmer never crosses 3000rpms and rarely sees more than 2500.

Woah, that actually blows my mind 0.o I try not to drop mine bellow 3000.

ps- that's crayzeee

[Colo Springs E]

Woah, that actually blows my mind 0.o I try not to drop mine bellow 3000.

ps- that's crayzeee

Agreed.... I try to keep my car below 3000 before warm-up, but I can't imagine normally keeping it at that (or 2500!) once it's warm. And I really see no benefit.

[pizzaman09]

Of the two e38s that my parents have owned, neither has been super reliable. On both the 98 740iL and the 01 740iL they have averaged about $2k each year in maintenance, since we bought the first one in 2001. It is very rare that either car was ever driven hard as both of my parents are very conservative drivers. If anything it seems like they run better after they have been given a good shakedown. The cars would see about 10k miles per year and probably 60% of the issues revolved around the terrible cooling systems they have. Just always always leaking. Been stranded twice due to expansion tanks and once due to a leaking rad.

For my e39 M5, I drive it a bit harder then my parents drive the e38, but I still don't thrash on it all of the time. It typically sees the red line at WOT at least once per day. Since I bought it about a year ago, I have put $5k or so into it, but most of that was to bring the car up to perfect mechanical and aesthetic condition. That included a new clutch, lots of sensors, and $3.6k of paint and a new bumper. The only true reliability issue I have had with the car so far was the fuel pump died around 73k or so miles.

Now if I compare that all to my 99 Oldsmobile, the BMWs look terrible. That car I have driven like I stole it nearly every time it has been driven for the last 6 years and 50k miles. I would be overestimating if I said that I have put $3k into that car. It really actually is reliable, and it is in near mint condition.

[ladyluxury1987]

Agreed.... I try to keep my car below 3000 before warm-up, but I can't imagine normally keeping it at that (or 2500!) once it's warm. And I really see no benefit.

I haven't had it very long, just trying to baby it while I repair and replace the regular maintenance items the POs didn't bother with. I also do mostly rural highway and in town driving.

[RyansBMW]

I think I drive my car moderately hard. I dont track it but Im pretty quick to get up to speed and often times are hitting the brakes hard (lots of idiot drivers around the city). These cars were built to cruise on the Autobahn so speed really isnt abuse for them..they can take it. My car has been pretty damn reliable since Ive owned it starting at 72k miles. Its now at 182k. Generally parts will cost a bit more than their Japanese counterparts but its not as ridiculous as some people make it seem. Each model has its areas you need to keep an eye on but generally as long as you do propper maintenance and dont let problems go unfixed, you should be able to avoid anything serious. I know the problem areas with the E39 and approx when it will happen so I can kinda of budget and plan to get that stuff taken care of. The only thing that ever shocked me was when a cat failed right before I had to get an inspection. That sucked haha but oh well.

I think the biggest problem people have is letting problems compound and then you can end up with a massive repair bill. Some people dont get their car diagnosed and instead of figuring out what the specific problem is, they just start throwing money at parts and end up wasting a lot. Other people can make their lives easier if they replace groups of parts at once but dont and then end up having to go back in there multiple times ( ie suspension parts), and end up spending a lot more than they had too if they put a little planning ahead of time.

I'm asking because I've had this E36 M3 for about 5 years and over those 5 years I've spent maybe 3000 in repairs. I'm not including money spent on stuff like oil changes. I'm only including what I've spent on stuff that broke. So in 5 years I spent 3000 in repairs and my car runs great at 131,xxx. I don't take it to a dealer. I take it to an independent shop in NJ called Bimmer Clinic so I know quality work was done.

These guys are awesome. Ive been taking my car there for years. Ive seen a bunch of M3s there. Anything that makes yours stand out? Maybe Ive seen it.

[ladyluxury1987]

I do get 27-30 mpg, don't know for sure how far above average that is but it is a benefit

[Kase Zome]

Bought my '98 M3 with 101K on the clock 15 months ago. Since then, I've put on 20K miles of which included a few autoxs, half a track day, and routinely beat it up on the mountain road below (over 7 miles and 3,000 feet of elevation gain). Only issue I've had with it has been a crack in the coolant reservoir that required a new OEM tank. Granted the car had a lot of maintenance work done to it just prior to me purchasing it but even with my relative abuse, it's been quite reliable so far.

[CMG]

They are not delicate little lillies but they are not as reliable as japanese cars. They just require more money and maintenance, but for the right model it's so worth it (e.g. M3 vs 318ti). I drive my car hard and redline often. At under 300 hp it's perfect to push the pedal to the floor with no lag and not overpowering.

[Sleepyhead97]

97 528i, I do 2500-2900 rpms on the highway for about 120 miles a day, stop go traffic for 25miles a day 4 days a week. If I need to punch it, which generally is once a day, I do without a second thought, Redline is 6k, I usually on run it up to 5k. No complaints so far. Car has 124 000 miles on it-which I have put only 7k miles since I bought it from the 3rd owner. I bought the car for 2300, and put in about 1.2k in parts so far. Lots of labor though, probably 40 or more hours. Time will tell how it stands up.

[ptarditi]

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[auaq]

I drive it by not driving it but towing it everywhere I go.

[Sleepyhead97]

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lol, I read what was there before