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Thread: E39 M5 vs E46 M3

  1. #1
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    E39 M5 vs E46 M3

    Heading home from work today I was waiting at a red light. To my right, up comes a black e46 m3. We both glanced at each other, but when it went green we both took off nice and easy.

    As I accelerated, I kept her in a lower gear, just in case.

    Reached over, DSC off.

    I guess he heard my being in a lower gear, because I heard him downshift. I gave a couple blips of the throttle, and he did too.

    I gave him the hit, as we took off from about 40 or so I was in 2nd. With the hit he jumped out about a half. By the top of 2nd I had pulled even, quick shift to 3rd and I was steady pulling. By about 90 I had him by a couple cars.

    Hit the brakes, he pulled even, I gave thumbs up, he said nice run. Exchanged quick compliments on the jet black m3 and my imola m5 and went our separate ways.

    A quick fun run.

    My mods in sig.
    Not sure if he had any mods.
    Last edited by Jordon; 07-28-2014 at 05:53 PM.
    Current: 2015 Audi S4 Sepang Blue, DSG, technik, black optic, sport diff, H&R Sport springs, Chipwerke Pro
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    e60 530i, e39 540i6, lots of modded audis.

  2. #2
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    nice kill/run. I have had a couple that I put down, but be careful, there are some sneaky ones out their with mods, that's not noticeable and will shock you. Had a few of those also. lol
    02 M5 (less than 45k miles), 09 328, 07 X3, 10 MB C350, '02 530 AA Stage2/intercooler, 04' 330, jaguar 3.0AWD

  3. #3
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    M62 on steroids yeah!
    Good kill, those M5s when healthy and bolted can pull pretty hard esp upstairs.
    "Secondly, there are plenty of realistic BMW owners in here posting that they lost. I don't see you asking asinine questions in their threads. What about the Ferrari kills Ingenere posts?"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoTLr...e_gdata_player

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbimflyer View Post
    Good kill, those M5s when healthy and bolted can pull pretty hard esp upstairs.
    You can say that again lol. I'm currently waiting on my rematch with one. Good kill OP, always nice to race another pleasant enthusiast
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  5. #5
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    M62 on steroids yeah!
    I'm after bigger fish, I should be running with bolted tuned E60 Ms... We just found out why I was only trapping 108 and and in the mid 12s. Car had many simultaneous issues including crushed Bov and major leaky TB.
    "Secondly, there are plenty of realistic BMW owners in here posting that they lost. I don't see you asking asinine questions in their threads. What about the Ferrari kills Ingenere posts?"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoTLr...e_gdata_player

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbimflyer View Post
    I'm after bigger fish, I should be running with bolted tuned E60 Ms... We just found out why I was only trapping 108 and and in the mid 12s. Car had many simultaneous issues including crushed Bov and major leaky TB.
    Not sure a BOV problem will rob you of power, also a major leak @ TB would cause rich condition. Are you getting retuned ?
    I hope the best for you Jon, just don't get your hopes up too high on the trap.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbimflyer View Post
    I'm after bigger fish, I should be running with bolted tuned E60 Ms... We just found out why I was only trapping 108 and and in the mid 12s. Car had many simultaneous issues including crushed Bov and major leaky TB.
    Thank goodness...in that other thread I was really surprised at that trap. You should be way above that based on your power and previous runs.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butters Stoch View Post
    Not sure a BOV problem will rob you of power, also a major leak @ TB would cause rich condition. Are you getting retuned ?
    I hope the best for you Jon, just don't get your hopes up too high on the trap.
    Yeah it's running really rich hitting 10.0 at times, not sure on the retune yet b/c I'm not sure if it was tuned with certain issues like air leaks, etc...

    Thanks man but trust me, I'm not going crazy about the trap except that I know it's got more in it, esp once the issues are resolved.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BavMotoWerkz View Post
    Thank goodness...in that other thread I was really surprised at that trap. You should be way above that based on your power and previous runs.
    Exactly, and now it's all making sense why I wasn't.
    "Secondly, there are plenty of realistic BMW owners in here posting that they lost. I don't see you asking asinine questions in their threads. What about the Ferrari kills Ingenere posts?"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoTLr...e_gdata_player

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbimflyer View Post
    Yeah it's running really rich hitting 10.0 at times, not sure on the retune yet b/c I'm not sure if it was tuned with certain issues like air leaks, etc...

    Thanks man but trust me, I'm not going crazy about the trap except that I know it's got more in it, esp once the issues are resolved.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Exactly, and now it's all making sense why I wasn't.
    I'm not sure a car trapping 108mph is going to gain another 7-8mph (70-80rwhp) from the issues you mentioned and that's the mph you would need to run with a tuned E60 M5.
    “If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual State. In a single State, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

  10. #10
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    Reset adaption to see if the new closed loop feedback will pull the open loop tuning down. If not and you think the car is still off, get the retune. It seems like you have attempted to fix some of these hardware/installation issues with tuning so I would not be surprised if the tuning is now off. A smoke test or DIY test with "Butters boost leak tester" should have exposed these two things you just found.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3chaser View Post
    I'm not sure a car trapping 108mph is going to gain another 7-8mph (70-80rwhp) from the issues you mentioned and that's the mph you would need to run with a tuned E60 M5.
    I meant to say bolted, no software.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    Reset adaption to see if the new closed loop feedback will pull the open loop tuning down. If not and you think the car is still off, get the retune. It seems like you have attempted to fix some of these hardware/installation issues with tuning so I would not be surprised if the tuning is now off. A smoke test or DIY test with "Butters boost leak tester" should have exposed these two things you just found.
    It was smoked
    "Secondly, there are plenty of realistic BMW owners in here posting that they lost. I don't see you asking asinine questions in their threads. What about the Ferrari kills Ingenere posts?"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoTLr...e_gdata_player

  12. #12
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    Under pressure or just smoked? Ideally you want to test with 20 psi to see if there is a leak. Butters tool allows that. We found a leak where my HFM mount was welded to the cold side turbo piping but it was evident only under pressure.

  13. #13
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    Smoke testers like I have @ my shop, are intended for evap systems. They only pressurize systems to 1/2-1 psi. The majority of boost leaks will not show up with that little pressure. A proper test would be pressurizing system to 20-25psi.
    1996 332IS
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbimflyer View Post
    I meant to say bolted, no software.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It was smoked
    Ah ok. Even still that's a lot of power that you would need to make up to run with a 115-116mph car. Any chance you can run a smaller pulley and retune?
    “If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual State. In a single State, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

  15. #15
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    M62 on steroids yeah!
    The leaks were evident under very little Boost... Remember it's supercharged not turbo, so I can be barely in Boost and experience symptoms from leaks. As a matter of fact, Most of the times the car was acting up I wasn't boosting at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by m3chaser View Post
    Ah ok. Even still that's a lot of power that you would need to make up to run with a 115-116mph car. Any chance you can run a smaller pulley and retune?
    Yeah I dunno about gaining 8mph on the back end, but I can stay close enough if it's running right.

    I can run a smaller pulley and would obviously have to retune, but I'm Leary about my motor handling the extra boost.
    Last edited by jbimflyer; 07-31-2014 at 05:00 PM.
    "Secondly, there are plenty of realistic BMW owners in here posting that they lost. I don't see you asking asinine questions in their threads. What about the Ferrari kills Ingenere posts?"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoTLr...e_gdata_player

  16. #16
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    Well, jbim, I guess if you throw on a smaller pulley you might finally have a reason to do an LSx swap and turbo it lol.
    Current: 2015 Audi S4 Sepang Blue, DSG, technik, black optic, sport diff, H&R Sport springs, Chipwerke Pro
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordon View Post
    Well, jbim, I guess if you throw on a smaller pulley you might finally have a reason to do an LSx swap and turbo it lol.
    "Secondly, there are plenty of realistic BMW owners in here posting that they lost. I don't see you asking asinine questions in their threads. What about the Ferrari kills Ingenere posts?"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoTLr...e_gdata_player

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordon View Post
    Well, jbim, I guess if you throw on a smaller pulley you might finally have a reason to do an LSx swap and turbo it lol.
    He should've done this last year. Nice kill OP
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  19. #19
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    M62 on steroids yeah!
    Quote Originally Posted by GG///M3 View Post
    He should've done this last year. Nice kill OP
    Stock motor... I make 15lbs without it, I would say I'm already flirting with Kaboom.
    Last edited by jbimflyer; 08-01-2014 at 10:41 AM.
    "Secondly, there are plenty of realistic BMW owners in here posting that they lost. I don't see you asking asinine questions in their threads. What about the Ferrari kills Ingenere posts?"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoTLr...e_gdata_player

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3chaser View Post
    I'm not sure a car trapping 108mph is going to gain another 7-8mph (70-80rwhp) from the issues you mentioned and that's the mph you would need to run with a tuned E60 M5.
    It won't!
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by futureroadracer View Post

    It won't!
    If it gains anything, it will be due to cooler air.
    Jbim will trap best of 110 tops this year.
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
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    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butters Stoch View Post
    If it gains anything, it will be due to cooler air.
    Jbim will trap best of 110 tops this year.
    Glad that's settled!
    Now he won't have to go to the track, so that saves about 6 pages worth of comments, advice, excuses, etc...
    Current: 2015 Audi S4 Sepang Blue, DSG, technik, black optic, sport diff, H&R Sport springs, Chipwerke Pro
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    e60 530i, e39 540i6, lots of modded audis.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordon View Post

    Glad that's settled!
    Now he won't have to go to the track, so that saves about 6 pages worth of comments, advice, excuses, etc...
    Could have just asked me before spending $ to go the first time.
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butters Stoch View Post
    If it gains anything, it will be due to cooler air.
    Jbim will trap best of 110 tops this year.
    I love a challenge... What do you have on that statement?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordon View Post
    Glad that's settled!
    Now he won't have to go to the track, so that saves about 6 pages worth of comments, advice, excuses, etc...
    Haha, settled? When I had issues, hot and humid weather... Hmmm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Butters Stoch View Post
    Could have just asked me before spending $ to go the first time.
    Haha there was more interest in the ET, iirc.
    "Secondly, there are plenty of realistic BMW owners in here posting that they lost. I don't see you asking asinine questions in their threads. What about the Ferrari kills Ingenere posts?"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoTLr...e_gdata_player

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbimflyer View Post

    I love a challenge... What do you have on that statement?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Haha, settled? When I had issues, hot and humid weather... Hmmm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Haha there was more interest in the ET, iirc.
    Due to yesterdays track experience, I up your trap to 112.
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

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