BMW autonomous driving

[Zenium3777]

Anyone think BMW's autonomous driving project is trying to reinvent the wheel (driver) ?

what bothers me is that humans are already super skilled and super safe ...our accident rate is 1.36 accidents per 1 billion kilometers ...that's a 0.00000136% risk

I haven't met a computer or software program, especially Microshite, that doesn't freeze, crash or do something silly once a day (MS) or once a month (Apple).. trusting my travel to a computer has all the appeal of a career as a kamakazi pilot

considering BMW's mantra is 'the ultimate driving machine' their research project appears to be heading in the exact opposite direction ..if you've seen the video of the BMW drifting and the driver looking a tad scared and left out of the action you'll probably understand what i'm saying

biggest mistake of big companies is thinking technology, which is pre-programmed intelligence (think of a toilet flush mechanism), can surpass human skill... computers, like toilet flushes, have no consciousness ..no feeling ...no intelligence at all in fact

whatever bright spark at BMW thought up this project, replacing high IQ with zero IQ, needs his head tested IMO

your thoughts guys???

[slocar]

As Jeremy Clarkson said on TopGear: This system was designed by a brilliant man, but 10 years from now you wont be able to relax being driven by your car because inevitably someone who thought they could service their own will be coming the other way and there will be a horrible accident as a result of something they overlooked.

edit: And I personally don't like it ... I like to be in control; not let some machine do it for me.

[BimmerBreaker]

The Google cars in Socal have already racked up TONS of miles...

...its not a technology I want to use all the time, but it IS a technology I want used. Here is why:

1) Stupid, lazy drivers who hog the fast lanes will be the ones to use this technology. Their cars will be programmed to drive in the right/travel lanes, not the left/fast lanes; thus freeing up the fast lanes for those of us who like to drive our cars. Maybe even adopt some adaptive speed limits like Germany too (left lanes are faster, right lanes are slower, automated cars can only use certain lanes)
2) You can bet your bottom dollar before it ever reaches market it will have gone through EXTENSIVE testing to ensure safety. Its not about not failing or never having components fail, its about implementing a technology designed to fail so if a sensor or the main computer fails, there is a backup program that is able to tell the car to pull over to the side of the road
3) Boring roadtrips on long, straight, exhausting roads (phoenix to LA on the I-10 comes to mind...) can be spent doing the same stuff you do at home (within reason) or for instance on a bus (but with privacy), relaxing on the computer, watching TV, even dare I say, sleeping... you can just go to bed in your car, set a destination, when you wake up you are there. When you visit somewhere for a week, you can enjoy it for a week instead of 5 days after accounting for an 8 hour drive
4) Expanding on point one, these stupid/lazy drivers will not clog up the roads as much. Traffic jams are created by people who speed up then brake speed up then brake, if everyone has automated cars there WILL be programming (maybe not when its first out, but soon enough) preventing this. Google maps detects traffic by the GPS's in peoples phones (you ever wonder how Google maps knows there is traffic at a certain place and it's always right? It is using your smartphone and everyone else's to determine how fast cars move through that area and accordingly determines traffic levels), why not use the same sort of tech to tell cars that there are a lot of cars ahead, a lot of cars merging onto the road, lets ALL travel a constant 40 instead of 60 then 20 then 80 then 0 causing waves of traffic. Then the other drivers, us real drivers, will likely adapt to this and just cruise control @ 40 when normally it would be killer stop and go traffic

In our lifetime I don't think there will ever be a point when this is mandatory and "manually driven" cars are no longer available, but if there is a time when this is a widespread technology, 20-30 years from now, and I can enjoy the roads free of prius's in the fast lane, I will be estatic. Our grandchildren or great-grandchildren may look at us the same way we look at our grandparents with the same sort of amazement when they talk about the civil rights movement: "Wow you lived at a time when PEOPLE drove cars outside of a racetrack? did everyone speed around all crazy?" *hearty laugh* "hohoho... no, of course not, we drove just like the robots do..." but technology like this is slow to adapt. I think we are all safe to continue enjoying our cars for the foreseeable future. Because as long as a generation that grew up without these automated cars is in political office, they will resist the full-fledged movement to get everyone in them. People are afraid of change.

[Arslan230]

Its driving is very easy and comfortable. I like this car.

[BimmerBreaker]

Its driving is very easy and comfortable. I like this car.

I've never seen a post be completely off topic while at the same time being deliciously relevant

Thank you for your contribution to this thread

[dejongeyanj]

I like to be in control; not let some machine do it for me.

[PorscheH6]

I'm a big fan of adaptive cruise, active lane assist, and self parking. It will become a lot more autonomous, whether you like it or not. Sometimes I would rather let the car drive itself. Can't remember the last time I had fun going bumper to bumper on the 101 during rush hour.

[SpeedsterBek]

Anyone think BMW's autonomous driving project is trying to reinvent the wheel (driver) ?

what bothers me is that humans are already super skilled and super safe ...our accident rate is 1.36 accidents per 1 billion kilometers ...that's a 0.00000136% risk

I haven't met a computer or software program, especially Microshite, that doesn't freeze, crash or do something silly once a day (MS) or once a month (Apple).. trusting my travel to a computer has all the appeal of a career as a kamakazi pilot

considering BMW's mantra is 'the ultimate driving machine' their research project appears to be heading in the exact opposite direction ..if you've seen the video of the BMW drifting and the driver looking a tad scared and left out of the action you'll probably understand what i'm saying

biggest mistake of big companies is thinking technology, which is pre-programmed intelligence (think of a toilet flush mechanism), can surpass human skill... computers, like toilet flushes, have no consciousness ..no feeling ...no intelligence at all in fact

whatever bright spark at BMW thought up this project, replacing high IQ with zero IQ, needs his head tested IMO

your thoughts guys???

Can you post the source for "humans are already super skilled and super safe...our accident rate is 1.36 accidents per 1 billion kilometers ...that's a 0.00000136% risk"?
I think that is more like 1.36 fatalities per 100 million miles traveled. http://www.airlinereporter.com/2010/...g-to-prove-it/
Having a Non-fatal auto accident per 100 million miles traveled is much higher.

Anyway, based on statistics, you're more likely to die from an auto accident compared to air or train travel. You're more likely to get into an accident driving to an airport compared to having your flight crash.

Next time you fly, think about how modern airplanes work. We all know modern airplanes do most of the flying itself. They have redundancy built in if one or multiple of those systems fail. Even if there is a computer failure, there is always a backup system, in addition to some sort of manual override.
Airplane crashes are mostly caused by pilot error, or mechanical issues, not usually caused by computer related issues.


Self driving bmws are nothing new. 7 years ago there was a E90 330i driving itself on Top Gear track:


Small limited number of driving purists may not like it, but this is where the technology is going, and companies need to spend on R&D for such things in order to stay competitive.
Each of the big auto manufacturers have some sort of self driving project in progress. Google, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, etc

Some of the tech is already available as options, so you can relax while driving in traffic. You can get a Merc with Active Lane Assist & DISTRONIC PLUS® and it'll practically drive itself on those long stretches of highway or in stop and go traffic.

[montaillou]

what bothers me is that humans are already super skilled and super safe ...our accident rate is 1.36 accidents per 1 billion kilometers ...that's a 0.00000136% risk

1.2 MILLION people died in traffic fatalities worldwide in 2010, and this is acceptable to you? Over 36,000 in the US alone, in 2012. How super skilled are humans when they drink, when they text, when they read the paper and eat breakfast on the way to work?

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

biggest mistake of big companies is...

Biggest mistake of humans is their hubris.

[Tony P]

My BMW is already autonomous. It drives itself to the service department on a regular basis.

[Zenium3777]

I think that is more like 1.36 fatalities per 100 million miles traveled. http://www.airlinereporter.com/2010/...g-to-prove-it/

Yes your figures are same as mine.
http://www.abd.org.uk/safest_roads.htm

Anyway, based on statistics, you're more likely to die from an auto accident compared to air or train travel.
I think they all work out very similar rates per kilometer travelled. If the roads were better designed they'd be even safer but we have the morons in the State monopolising our roads. Monopolies are the dumbest way to run any system. Our roads haven't moved forward in 100 years unlike the skies which are free of Govt meddling.

Airplane crashes are mostly caused by pilot error, or mechanical issues, not usually caused by computer related issues.
Again humans are extremely safe. Most accidents are tek or component failures. For the same reason cars are super safe. We have inbuilt sensors.. we piss our pants when there is danger and we avert it.

Small limited number of driving purists may not like it, but this is where the technology is going..
I disagree completely with that statement. The entire motoring population will prefer to drive themselves. Only a few loons, there are always some, alot in car company tek departments, will let toilet-flush-mechanism-unconscious-no-IQ tek take over their car.


'Each of the big auto manufacturers have some sort of self driving project in progress. Google, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, etc'
Yep.. and i can tell you right now they're all wrong. They'll never get near how smart a human is with their tek. Not in the next 100 years for sure. Waisting their time and money. 100% assured of that.

Some of the tech is already available as options, so you can relax while driving in traffic.
That's the exact opposite of my point tek cannot be trusted at anywhere as reliable as a human. I gave Microshite Computers as example.

I would never relax with a computer in charge of my vehicle. Tek is a toilet flush mechanism. It is not conscious but unconscious. You relax if you want to but my advice is stay awake and alert for the software breakdown or bug... it's gonna get you

[Zenium3777]

montaillou






1.2 MILLION people died in traffic fatalities worldwide in 2010, and this is acceptable to you?
You accept that risk everytime you venture onto the road... so did the dead people.. you wanna move.. you take risk ..if you don't like the risk data, stay in.

How super skilled are humans when they drink, when they text, read the paper and eat breakfast on the way to work?
The entire reason we stay active driving is because the roads are too slow because the morons in Govt are in charge. Speed us up and we stop eating sandwiches etc because we're so bored

Biggest mistake of humans is their hubris
As mentioned our super safe record shows we're not arrogant but super safe

[Zenium3777]

Montaillou

1.2 MILLION people died in traffic fatalities worldwide in 2010, and this is acceptable to you?
You accept that risk everytime you venture onto the road... so did the dead people.. you wanna move.. you take risk ..if you don't like the risk data, stay in.

How super skilled are humans when they drink, when they text, read the paper and eat breakfast on the way to work?
The entire reason we stay active driving is because the roads are too slow because the morons in Govt are in charge. Speed us up and we stop eating sandwiches etc because we're so bored

Biggest mistake of humans is their hubris
As mentioned our super safe record shows we're not arrogant but super safe

[montaillou]

Montaillou

1.2 MILLION people died in traffic fatalities worldwide in 2010, and this is acceptable to you?
You accept that risk everytime you venture onto the road... so did the dead people.. you wanna move.. you take risk ..if you don't like the risk data, stay in.

How super skilled are humans when they drink, when they text, read the paper and eat breakfast on the way to work?
The entire reason we stay active driving is because the roads are too slow because the morons in Govt are in charge. Speed us up and we stop eating sandwiches etc because we're so bored

Biggest mistake of humans is their hubris
As mentioned our super safe record shows we're not arrogant but super safe

You got me.

[Zenium3777]

Speedsterbek

I think that is more like 1.36 fatalities per 100 million miles traveled
Yes same death rates as me here..
http://www.abd.org.uk/safest_roads.htm
But the accident rate is pretty identical country to country across Europe ..and US for that matter and around the globe.

Anyway, based on statistics, you're more likely to die from an auto accident compared to air or train travel.
Read JJ Leming in the ADB website i gave you above. Seems risk is pretty equal per kilometer travelled across trains, cars, buses and aeroplanes. There's not much in it.
If our roads had not stood still for 100 years, as they are managed by morons (Govt), we'd have an even safer record. All monopolies, which is what Govt is, produce crap. The sooner the better we get our roads out of Govt (mis)management as our roads are actually going backwards... in quality ...in speeds and therefore safety, with speed humps and speed limits etc etc

Even if there is a computer failure, there is always a backup system..
Yes there needs to be computer backup as it's so unreliable

Airplane crashes are mostly caused by pilot error, or mechanical issues, not usually caused by computer related issues
Pilot error is the least likely cause. As the roads prove. We have inbuilt safety systems called 'fear' and 'panic' which avert almost all accidents. Computers have no such consciousness which is why I'd never trust them.

Small limited number of driving purists may not like it, but this is where the technology is going..
Disagree entirely. The small number will be the nutters allowing an unconscious toilet flush mechanism (computer) take charge of their driving. If technology is heading that way it's down a cul-de-sac. Not a chance in a million tek will surpass the human driver.

Each of the big auto manufacturers have some sort of self driving project in progress. Google, BMW, Mercedes etc
Yep. And I bet anyone they 100% wrong and barking up the wrong tree

Some of the tech is already available as options, so you can relax while driving in traffic.
Well if you want to relax with computer/software reliability record I'd only say good luck coz you need it. It doesn't even come remotely close to the reliability and safety record of a human.

Thanks for your reply Speedster ..nice to hear from you >

[Zenium3777]

Very funny Monti >

[Zenium3777]

Article, 'Ford dismisses concept of 'driverless' cars'

http://www.brandrepublic.com/news/12...HAYILC=RELATED

Good (common sense) from Ford

[montaillou]

Very funny Monti >

I just can't take someone seriously who likens driving a car to russian roulette.

[Zenium3777]

Definately not Russian Roulette Monti ...that's a 1 in 6 chance of blowing your brains out.

Driving is a 1.36 chance in 1 billion kilometers of an accident ....much better odds ..which we all take ...seriously.

[Silverdogz]

Well then there's this little article. I would like it if it was an option on cars, like manual vs. automatic, or part of a package, and a nice big OFF button.

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs...n-distractions

[BimmerBreaker]

Article, 'Ford dismisses concept of 'driverless' cars'

http://www.brandrepublic.com/news/12...HAYILC=RELATED

Good (common sense) from Ford

None of that seems to be in opposition to any of what was said in this thread... I don't think anyone wants an automated car that can't have a human step in to control it... The title of that article is also rather misleading because the article is explaining the extent at which Ford is using this sort of technology or will be implementing similar features on their cars, it says nothing of them "dismissing" the idea

[Zenium3777]

BimmerBreaker

i'd agree the Ford article is much more about Fords tek than against driverless (zero iQ) cars

I much prefer direct engineering links in steering, throttle, brakes and any other system, with tek coming in as power assistance, not in between driver and component

the Russian ejector seat is the most successful as it is a simple mechanical gravity system.. it isn't computerised ..going on the adage 'if it works don't fix it'

I fear electronic throttles, brakes, steering ...I want direct mechanical linkage ...it's worked for 100 years perfectly safely and reliably ..putting computers and software in-between with their reliability record is nutz

[ross1]

The ultimate drives itself machine?
I thought BMW catered to folks who enjoy driving.
Might as well take a bus

[Zenium3777]

ross1
'Might as well take a bus'

Yes indeed >

[325bob]

It has been widely reported in recent plane mishaps that pilots are forgetting basic flying skills because of "auto-pilot" boredom, like falling asleep and passing an entire city,etc., most drivers today have very little skill to begin with, this will lower it. Albeit, "IF" it always works perfectly, no skill will be necessary