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Thread: Quality Issues - I need to vent, but in a nice way.

  1. #26
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    Waiting for what?
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  2. #27
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    Quick search of Bimmershops shows quite a few in Atlanta. I got away from the dealer when I had my E92 as soon as my warranty was up. Would rather support an independent mechanic that generally does same (if not better) work for cheaper. Here in Richmond we only have 2 BMW dealers that are owned by the same ownership group so it's pick your poison as far as prices go.

    GL OP, and if maintenance like this is going to continue to bother you I'd suggest getting rid of the car because it's not going to get any cheaper.
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  3. #28
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    Just find cheaper parts online like thebmwpartstore.com, or anywhere else (I just really like using those guys since it's all oem parts).

    And find a good independent shop, that will save you quite a bit on labor. It is going to cost more than a Ford contour, but going to the dealer after tour warranty is up is very expensive.

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  4. #29
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    [QUOTE="Tony P;27447221"]I did ask if the washer pump installed in my '99 Ford Contour would fit, since it has never gone out in the 15 years I've owned it. No answer.
    /QUOTE]

    He didn't answer because you asked something utterly stupid. You referenced your 99 ford contour a few times.. I'd recommend selling the BMW and investing the money in gas for the ford.
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  5. #30
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    [QUOTE=modular93fox;27507259]
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    I did ask if the washer pump installed in my '99 Ford Contour would fit, since it has never gone out in the 15 years I've owned it. No answer.
    /QUOTE]

    He didn't answer because you asked something utterly stupid. You referenced your 99 ford contour a few times.. I'd recommend selling the BMW and investing the money in gas for the ford.
    Yes, it was stupid, but I was not pleased. And I wanted him to know it. I used my beat up 15 year old Ford airport car as a comparison only because the Ford has never leaked a drop of anything. You're the second person who feels strongly I should sell the BMW and purchase another Ford. I may follow that advice. However, I tend to hold cars for several years, so a Honda or Toyota may suit my need better.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JWalker View Post
    Good luck with any good will anything from BMW NA on a 7 year old car. If you're planning on keeping it I'd find a good independent shop for the little things that will creep up over time regardless of miles.
    Bingo! After hearing nothing from them after one month, I placed a followup call. I discovered that since my BMW is out of warranty and 7 years old, they won't even send me a coupon book. It doesn't matter the great care I've taken with it - it means nothing.

    I'm the kid who placed his forefinger on the hot stove, leaving the remaining four fingers with the knowledge not to ever do it again. This will be my last BMW. For those of you who lease, you're the smart one's. For those of you who own a modern BMW, be afraid... be very afraid.

    POS (and I don't mean Point of Sale).
    Houdini

  6. #31
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    You know its funny, my family had a Ford Contour when I was younger, and the thing literally spent more time in the shop then it did in our garage. Our first three months of ownership it was in the shop 47 days - we counted. Lemon laws are crappy where I live so we sold it to some neighborhood kid and he drove it to the ground (which took about a week).

    Not sure why you were expecting BMW to honor any sort of warranty on your 7-year-out-of-warranty car, your train of thought on this whole thing is completely ridiculous.

    You took a brand new car that has tons of parts that require regular driving to lubricate, moisten, or otherwise clean parts of the drivetrain. Then you proceded to put a feeble 3,000 miles a year on the car, basically leaving it to rot, and now you wonder why stuff is broken? The engine in your car is one I have in one of my own, a 128i, and its a phenomenal engine that has never once given me an issue. Not once. You know why? Because that car gets driven at least every other day. You let your car sit in the corner getting neglected

    OP you dont get what it takes to own a nice car, so go buy a Honda, or a Toyota, or some other econobox piece of crap. Not sure why your in a BMW in the first place if youd be happy in one of those. Status symbol, perhaps

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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackxs View Post
    You know its funny, my family had a Ford Contour when I was younger, and the thing literally spent more time in the shop then it did in our garage. Our first three months of ownership it was in the shop 47 days - we counted. Lemon laws are crappy where I live so we sold it to some neighborhood kid and he drove it to the ground (which took about a week).

    Not sure why you were expecting BMW to honor any sort of warranty on your 7-year-out-of-warranty car, your train of thought on this whole thing is completely ridiculous.

    You took a brand new car that has tons of parts that require regular driving to lubricate, moisten, or otherwise clean parts of the drivetrain. Then you proceded to put a feeble 3,000 miles a year on the car, basically leaving it to rot, and now you wonder why stuff is broken? The engine in your car is one I have in one of my own, a 128i, and its a phenomenal engine that has never once given me an issue. Not once. You know why? Because that car gets driven at least every other day. You let your car sit in the corner getting neglected

    OP you dont get what it takes to own a nice car, so go buy a Honda, or a Toyota, or some other econobox piece of crap. Not sure why your in a BMW in the first place if youd be happy in one of those. Status symbol, perhaps
    Yea, I'm ridiculous for expecting more from BMW. After my followup call, the BMW NA rep asked if there was anything else he could do for me. I said, yes, buy my car. He laughed... and not one of those, "I think you're funny" laughs. More like "I get these complaint calls all the time and I would never in my right mind buy a BMW" laugh.

    There may be something to not driving it that may be remotely related to my tranny leak. However, the nearly $400 (with labor) windshield wiper pump breaking is inexcusable. As is the broken mirror housing that went out 3 years ago (I refuse to pay the $500 to repair it). I'd rather spend my money on my Harley, which has 53,000 miles, with less issues than both my cars, and is infinitely more enjoyable. The one, truly amazing thing - I still have the original battery! It's a good thing too 'cause you just can't run down to Pep Boys and replace it. And you're right, the six is a marvel, which brings me to the fact (yes fact) that the new four is getting "noise" complaints from it's owners. I overheard a service writer admit as much to a customer who brought his 428i in for excessive engine noise at 7,000 miles. Apparently, it's a common complaint. Pitiful...

    Yes, the BMW was a bit of a status symbol. So what? I've purchased a lot of things for a variety of reasons and never lost any sleep about what others thought (you).

    Sorry to hear about your Ford Contour experience. Apparently, BMW isn't the only manufacture that produces lemons.

    Okay, I'm done ranting (don't get me started on the RFT's). I'm sure the forum administrator is giving me the evil eye.
    Houdini

  8. #33
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    The nose complaints are due to the new direct injection 4 cylinder.

    Reality is that the car is 7 years old. The parts still cost what they cost and the warranty has been up for 3 years... I would not hold my breath nor expect any freebies, theres no reason for BMW to provide any of it, especially for a trivial and relatively low cost repair all things considered.

    And btw my last Road King had all (and I mean all) engine gaskets replaced at 1500 miles as it was leaking like a sieve after dealer break in service. So hardly the pinnacle of reliability.

    Good luck.
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  9. #34
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    The dealership is the most expensive place you could find to service your car. A certified repair shop will do the work for literally 1/2 the labor rate as the dealership.
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  10. #35
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    if $400 repairs bother you you should really sell the car, or learn to work on it yourself. Fact is a bmw isnt a ford. and repair costs are different. You also sound like a prick comparing your 15 year old ford to a 7 year old bmw.
    Last edited by legoman67; 04-23-2014 at 02:28 PM.
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  11. #36
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    Why drive a Bimmer and ride a Harley? The best to the worst in the same garage?

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by legoman67 View Post
    if $400 repairs bother you you should really sell the car, or learn to work on it yourself. Fact is a bmw isnt a ford. and repair costs are different. You also sound like a prick comparing your 15 year old ford to a 7 year old bmw.
    I can be a prick, but that's beside the point. Comparisons are what they are - another person's opinion on something that may or may not be relevant. I felt it relevant here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 325bob View Post
    Why drive a Bimmer and ride a Harley? The best to the worst in the same garage?
    Bob, have you ever owned a Harley? Or any motorcycle for that matter? (Vespa's don't count)

    In my world, the Harley has been more reliable than both my cars. Plus, it's more satisfying (for me) to operate. So, in MY example, the Harley has been the best and the Bimmer the worst. The absolute best (in regards to reliability & usefulness) vehicle in my household is my wife's 2012 Honda CR-V, which may or may not hold up as well as my daughter's 2002 Honda CR-V that has 150,000 miles on the odo.

    Slam me if you must, but my expectations are high and I expect a car to be fun to drive AND reliable. Is that asking too much from a car that cost nearly $50k? Kick me when I'm down. I can easily afford the maintenance. I happen to enjoy saving, than spending money feeding that technical nightmare that resides in my garage. Heaven forbid! Depending on who's stats you follow, Audi is now more reliable than BMW. MB is ahead of both marques. Okay, BMW is still ahead of Ford.

    I never said that BMW was not a good driving experience - it is! I would be lying if I didn't admit that I have pangs for a new Z4 coupe knowing the potential heartache that lies ahead. I can't wait to read my Roundel mag when it hits the mailbox every month. I understand and appreciate the passion felt here in the forum. Sadly, mine has waned.
    Houdini

  13. #38
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    Soon I expect you'll be comparing your BMW to your kid's tricycle.

    Your BMW has thousands more parts on it than your Harley. Why is this thread still going, sell your BMW, drive your Ford, your Harley, your whatever.
    Not so much a signature as a cry for help.

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    I can be a prick, but that's beside the point. Comparisons are what they are - another person's opinion on something that may or may not be relevant. I felt it relevant here.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Bob, have you ever owned a Harley? Or any motorcycle for that matter? (Vespa's don't count)

    In my world, the Harley has been more reliable than both my cars. Plus, it's more satisfying (for me) to operate. So, in MY example, the Harley has been the best and the Bimmer the worst. The absolute best (in regards to reliability & usefulness) vehicle in my household is my wife's 2012 Honda CR-V, which may or may not hold up as well as my daughter's 2002 Honda CR-V that has 150,000 miles on the odo.

    Slam me if you must, but my expectations are high and I expect a car to be fun to drive AND reliable. Is that asking too much from a car that cost nearly $50k? Kick me when I'm down. I can easily afford the maintenance. I happen to enjoy saving, than spending money feeding that technical nightmare that resides in my garage. Heaven forbid! Depending on who's stats you follow, Audi is now more reliable than BMW. MB is ahead of both marques. Okay, BMW is still ahead of Ford.

    I never said that BMW was not a good driving experience - it is! I would be lying if I didn't admit that I have pangs for a new Z4 coupe knowing the potential heartache that lies ahead. I can't wait to read my Roundel mag when it hits the mailbox every month. I understand and appreciate the passion felt here in the forum. Sadly, mine has waned.
    I've owned over 150 cars and 50 bikes, the last 12 cars and 2 bikes have been BMW's, never had a Harley, the magazine tests were scary,even funny about how bad Harleys compared with anything else.They have gotten much better in recent years, but are light years behind current superbike performance. The old Harley diehards always explained they don't need to go fast, I said" the big difference is going slow is optional with my bikes".

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 325bob View Post
    I've owned over 150 cars and 50 bikes, the last 12 cars and 2 bikes have been BMW's, never had a Harley, the magazine tests were scary,even funny about how bad Harleys compared with anything else.They have gotten much better in recent years, but are light years behind current superbike performance. The old Harley diehards always explained they don't need to go fast, I said" the big difference is going slow is optional with my bikes".
    Back when I was younger, I owned metrics (my '82 Honda CBX I should have kept) that would shame my Harley. Now that I've slowed down, I enjoy it more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Enough about my money pit (for now). A friend of mine has an '09 version of my coupe. She actually drives her Bimmer. At 64,000 miles she has an intermittent "check engine" light. Already? Well, she took to an indy (she's out of warranty. of course), who pulled the codes for free (Apparently, BMW charges $50 for this). She can't remember what the code is, but it relates to emissions. She needs to get it inspected. She claims the light clears when she gets out on the highway and "blows it out." I took her out for a spirited ride (the car) and it passed inspection. She sent me a text this morning - check engine light back. Hopefully, it's nothing more than cleaning a sensor or what have you. Regardless, it's gonna' cost. I hear this is typical for a BMW, so I guess she should have expected it. She loves the Bimmer, but she also loved her previous, never had a check engine light Infinity that had a 144,000 miles on it before some cockroach performed a hit and run on it. I told her she should get down on her knees and pray to the car Gods that it made it this far with nothing more than oil, brakes, rotors and one faulty tail light bulb. Hey, I'm trying to adopt the glass is half full philosophy.
    Last edited by Tony P; 04-28-2014 at 08:57 AM.
    Houdini

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Back when I was younger, I owned metrics (my '82 Honda CBX I should have kept) that would shame my Harley. Now that I've slowed down, I enjoy it more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Enough about my money pit (for now). A friend of mine has an '09 version of my coupe. She actually drives her Bimmer. At 64,000 miles she has an intermittent "check engine" light. Already? Well, she took to an indy (she's out of warranty. of course), who pulled the codes for free (Apparently, BMW charges $50 for this). She can't remember what the code is, but it relates to emissions. She needs to get it inspected. She claims the light clears when she gets out on the highway and "blows it out." I took her out for a spirited ride (the car) and it passed inspection. She sent me a text this morning - check engine light back. Hopefully, it's nothing more than cleaning a sensor or what have you. Regardless, it's gonna' cost. I hear this is typical for a BMW, so I guess she should have expected it. She loves the Bimmer, but she also loved her previous, never had a check engine light Infinity that had a 144,000 miles on it before some cockroach performed a hit and run on it. I told her she should get down on her knees and pray to the car Gods that it made it this far with nothing more than oil, brakes, rotors and one faulty tail light bulb. Hey, I'm trying to adopt the glass is half full philosophy.
    If you don't want check engine lights and various other electrical faults, then don't buy a brand new BMW, Audi, Mercedes or anything fancy: get a barebones, stripped down, no options Civic. The more electronics and gadgets there are, the more they'll fail: it's a fact of life.

    I have a 225k mile BMW that's 19 years old. It has never in it's life had a check engine light on. You know why? Because it was simple: there's hardly anything to set it off.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Back when I was younger, I owned metrics (my '82 Honda CBX I should have kept) that would shame my Harley. Now that I've slowed down, I enjoy it more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Enough about my money pit (for now). A friend of mine has an '09 version of my coupe. She actually drives her Bimmer. At 64,000 miles she has an intermittent "check engine" light. Already? Well, she took to an indy (she's out of warranty. of course), who pulled the codes for free (Apparently, BMW charges $50 for this). She can't remember what the code is, but it relates to emissions. She needs to get it inspected. She claims the light clears when she gets out on the highway and "blows it out." I took her out for a spirited ride (the car) and it passed inspection. She sent me a text this morning - check engine light back. Hopefully, it's nothing more than cleaning a sensor or what have you. Regardless, it's gonna' cost. I hear this is typical for a BMW, so I guess she should have expected it. She loves the Bimmer, but she also loved her previous, never had a check engine light Infinity that had a 144,000 miles on it before some cockroach performed a hit and run on it. I told her she should get down on her knees and pray to the car Gods that it made it this far with nothing more than oil, brakes, rotors and one faulty tail light bulb. Hey, I'm trying to adopt the glass is half full philosophy.
    Prolly an O2 sensor going out, they are almost a normal 75k item on Bimmers, easy fix, and I wish I had several of my Hondas back, 83CB1100s, CB400, CB-1, but mostly my Kawasaki 69 H1 triple.

  18. #43
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    ITT: OP relates stories about himself and friend's cars that never had problems but when they replaced them with BMW's, the BMW sucked.
    Not so much a signature as a cry for help.

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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 325bob View Post
    Prolly an O2 sensor going out, they are almost a normal 75k item on Bimmers, easy fix, and I wish I had several of my Hondas back, 83CB1100s, CB400, CB-1, but mostly my Kawasaki 69 H1 triple.
    Good to know. I will pass it on. Thanks!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by montaillou View Post
    ITT: OP relates stories about himself and friend's cars that never had problems but when they replaced them with BMW's, the BMW sucked.
    That would be close to accurate. Thanks for stating the obvious.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JWalker View Post
    The noise complaints are due to the new direct injection 4 cylinder.

    Reality is that the car is 7 years old. The parts still cost what they cost and the warranty has been up for 3 years... I would not hold my breath nor expect any freebies, theres no reason for BMW to provide any of it, especially for a trivial and relatively low cost repair all things considered.

    And btw my last Road King had all (and I mean all) engine gaskets replaced at 1500 miles as it was leaking like a sieve after dealer break in service. So hardly the pinnacle of reliability.

    Good luck.
    Makes sense. Direct injection = noisy, expensive BMW.

    I have a close friend who put nearly 150,000 miles on his '05 RK (Yes, 150k!). The only leak he ever experienced was from the fork sliders. Of course, that occurred AFTER he ran it into a ditch (never drink and ride). I've heard stories similar to yours. Personally, I haven't met anyone who had major issues with their Harley. Years ago I owned a Suzuki GS750 that weeped through it's head gasket. Does that count?
    Houdini

  20. #45
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    Update:

    Pros: After all my current leaks have been fixed, I decided to replace the crappy Bridgestone RFTs that were original to the car. In their place is a wonderful set of Michelin Super Sports and an M Mobility kit in the trunk. These non-RFT tires ride better, are quieter and provide more predictable handling than those heavy, skittish Bridgestone's.

    Cons: My battery is done as I type this. Believe it or not, I'm not going to poo-poo BMW over this. It's the original battery that has lasted over 7 1/2 years. However... I never did get the low battery icon on the dash display, thus, I'm stranded nose first in my garage. I'm going to attempt to use my '99 Ford Contour to jump it off (Oh, what humiliation!) and drive it to the dealer. If not, AAA is in my near future. Regardless, I'm guessing the battery and reprogram is going to run $500. Along with my annual oil change and bi-annual brake fluid change, this bill will be around $700-800. My running count for the last 12 months should be around around $3,500. This includes normal and "WTF" unscheduled maintenance.

    Postscript BMW NA: I was assured my complaint was taken seriously (read earlier posts). Of course there was no apology on behalf of their lesser quality, but at least they were kind enough to allow me to vent.
    Last edited by Tony P; 06-16-2014 at 09:34 AM.
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  21. #46
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    You can not have AAA replace that battery, you need to get it to the dealer to get it programmed. People have major issues with those cars (read: Battery explosions) when they don't get the batteries re-coded and I have heard of some dealerships not re-coding non-OEM batteries. You may be able to have AAA replace it but the dealer will need to recode and I would call your dealer first to make sure they will work with you on this. This is one of many reasons I will never own a newer gen BMW.

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  22. #47
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    It seems like you're comparing apples to oranges. I'm pretty sure if you compare your car to a similarly aged car in the same class (audi, merc), your E92 would fare better. Maybe reliability is not as great as lexus, few minor issues are hardly a deal breaker, considering the car doesn't get driven much. Besides, your car is first year of E92, so expect to be a beta tester.

    As for others: all the issues you're having or might have in the future are well documented on the web. It probably takes less time to find a washer bottle fix DIY or battery replacement DIY than type a rant about how much you got ripped off at the dealer.

    Even If you're not a DIY person, you could've found a more reasonable independent bmw shop to keep the costs down. Maybe you like your dealership and don't mind spending your money there, who knows.

    Battery- you can replace the battery yourself with a battery from parts stores. Your car may not even need to be programmed, according to quick google search. Even if it needs to be programmed, then it shouldn't cost more than an hour worth of labor.
    If you don't drive for weeks, then consider investing in a battery tender/charger.

    Also, I'm surprised it lasted 7.5 years considering how little the car was driven. My family member has a toyota highlander, which had a battery that only lasted 3.5 years. Quick google search showed that it is a common issue and even toyotas break down. Who knew?
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  23. #48
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    Well, the service writer felt sorry for me, so he knocked off 10% from my total bill. The new battery/reprogram, oil and brake fluid change came to $639 after my much appreciated discount. Of course there was talk of early signs of wear on the wheel bushings (WTF! They have less than 23k on them). That was to be another $519. I told them I would wait unitl next year's oil change if it didn't appear serious. They told me what to look out for if the bushings decide to fail prematurely (So far, everything has failed preamturely).

    I've decided to drive the beast more often - rain or shine. It's paid for, so maintenance charges, that average out to around $250-300 per month, are almost acceptable. The one thing I spent money on that makes this car a joy are the Michelin Super Sports. It's never driven so good!
    Houdini

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by spoonerDee View Post
    My wind shield washer pump and grommet cost less than $15 bucks and was a 15 minute install on my e46. Can't imagine them being that more difficult on newer 3 series
    I just spent $23 a piece at Advanced Auto for two new washer pumps for my e39 M5.

    One thing I would give for the labor on his newer 3 series is that the pump and tank may be in a very inaccessible place. I had to remove my wheel liner to get to the main fluid tank, I can imagine that could be a big pain in some cars.
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    1962 Austin Healey Sprite

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    465
    My Cars
    2003 325i
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Well, the service writer felt sorry for me, so he knocked off 10% from my total bill. The new battery/reprogram, oil and brake fluid change came to $639 after my much appreciated discount. Of course there was talk of early signs of wear on the wheel bushings (WTF! They have less than 23k on them). That was to be another $519. I told them I would wait unitl next year's oil change if it didn't appear serious. They told me what to look out for if the bushings decide to fail prematurely (So far, everything has failed preamturely).

    I've decided to drive the beast more often - rain or shine. It's paid for, so maintenance charges, that average out to around $250-300 per month, are almost acceptable. The one thing I spent money on that makes this car a joy are the Michelin Super Sports. It's never driven so good!
    Why do you keep talking about your stupid BMW?? Please tell us more about that CONTOUR!! And, pictures, or YOU DON'T REALLY OWN ONE!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Frikking MACHINE!!

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