Precision 6466 / AR Designs Top Mount Twin Scroll / E85

[NY98M3]

Hey Guys,

Getting ready to do some upgrades and switching things up a bit.

Specs are as follows:

Precision Billet CEA 6466 Turbo with a Ceramic Coated T4 1.00 Exhaust Housing
AR Design Top Mount Twin Scroll Manifold -Ceramic Coated
AR Design 3.5" Down Pipe and Dual WG Dump Tubes
Dual Tial 38mm MVS Wastegates - 1 bar springs
Treadstone TR1235 Intercooler
Single or Dual 485lph Walbro Pumps - still not sure on
8AN Feed/Return
RR Billet Rail
Aeromotive AFPR
115# injectors

For those who have installed a AR top mount manifold, what is the preferred method of installation? It looks like I might be able to fish it up from the bottom. I heard you can do it from the front but the motor will need to be lifted. Im not sure how this would be possible because of the tranny hitting the tranny tunnel.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[1SLWM3]

I was planning on running a single relayed walbro 400 in the same hanger and will see how far we get. Add the second easily later on if needed. Less to fail at first. Looks like a solid upgrade!

[MikeE36]

I recommend unbolting your engine mounts, or at least loosening them quite a bit, as well as the trans crossmember mounts. Then lift the engine on the front / passenger side to rotate it a bit more vertical. Then you should be able to just slide the manifold in from the front/top by the shock tower. I just pulled my manifold using this method and it only took ~ 1 hr.

It also is crucial/very helpful to have all your exhaust studs threaded in fully and not sticking out some stupid extra length because they're not bottomed out. That will cause some snags so make sure they're all installed fully.

Mike

[das Boot]

damn that set up is gonna make some power

[jszy25]

Going to be badass for sure. Cant wait to see this thing!!

[NY98M3]

I recommend unbolting your engine mounts, or at least loosening them quite a bit, as well as the trans crossmember mounts. Then lift the engine on the front / passenger side to rotate it a bit more vertical. Then you should be able to just slide the manifold in from the front/top by the shock tower. I just pulled my manifold using this method and it only took ~ 1 hr.

It also is crucial/very helpful to have all your exhaust studs threaded in fully and not sticking out some stupid extra length because they're not bottomed out. That will cause some snags so make sure they're all installed fully.

Mike

Mike - Thanks for the tip, did you have to mount the wastegates and wastegate tubes on there as well while the motor was up and over?

[highboostingm3]

Good lord man. How could you have that setup and not twin pumps? That beast will want to eat bro. FEED IT!

What a clean car for 800+whp.

[NY98M3]

Good lord man. How could you have that setup and not twin pumps? That beast will want to eat bro. FEED IT!

What a clean car for 800+whp.

I have twin 485s but Ive been advised we can get away with using one.

Im keeping A/C so I need to find a solution to rerouting the lines. If anyone has done this, let me know

[cragg56]

When I pulled the manifold I was able to slide it up and out from the top. I had the n54 exhaust studs too. I however did not have AC or AC lines.

As for installing the WG's. You can install them once the manifold is installed. When I shipped them I left the WG dumps bolted to the WG's in the perfect position for the dumps. Once the manifold is on the engine, then bolt the WG's up. The bottom one with the dump tube may take some finagling, but the dump goes under the stock engine arm.

Can't wait to see your results

[NY98M3]

This will be a slow process. Im working 60+ hours a week, building a new garage, and on top of all that doing family stuff with a 4 year old and a 8 month old.

Last night I was able to disconnect the ac lines to make room for the manifold. Im going to head down to the hose distributor and see if they can build me extended AC lines.

Thanks for the response about the install of the mani. Im going to try a few ways but it looks like once the motor is lifted and shifted over about an inch, it might be able to feed it up from the bottom.

[mcoupemindy]

I have twin 485s but Ive been advised we can get away with using one.

Im keeping A/C so I need to find a solution to rerouting the lines. If anyone has done this, let me know

Who advised you that? Mathematics disagree that it is safe. ALWAYS build safety margins into fueling calculations.

[Colby Colbs]

I have twin 485s but Ive been advised we can get away with using one.

Im keeping A/C so I need to find a solution to rerouting the lines. If anyone has done this, let me know

I extended the metal tubing to give the lines more length. Some are aluminum some are steel, my 99 m3 was steel. I sectioned an m20 dipstick tube and tigged in a section.

[NY98M3]

Who advised you that? Mathematics disagree that it is safe. ALWAYS build safety margins into fueling calculations.

I highly intelligent tuning mastermind but I would like to see calculations on this...care to share?

I extended the metal tubing to give the lines more length. Some are aluminum some are steel, my 99 m3 was steel. I sectioned an m20 dipstick tube and tigged in a section.

My idea was to keep the ends and add a section into the middle of them...this way the connections to the fire wall and compressor stay the same.

___________

The outlet for the turbo will need to go down between the front of the vanos and radiator shroud towards the AC compressor. There is not much room in there. Id like to hear what you guys have done to make it fit. Do I need to go with a different radiator shroud? or should the outlet do another way?

[mcoupemindy]

I highly intelligent tuning mastermind but I would like to see calculations on this...care to share?

Using information from here as I think this is the fuel pump you are referring to:

http://shop.cj-motorsports.com/Walbr...-walbro485.htm

Let's make some assumptions: 1.) Rail Pressure of 3.5 Bar (stock), 2.) Bump pressure of 2.0Bar (29psi). 3.) Resultant maximum fuel pressure 5.5bar or ~80psi.

Looking at the chart, this pump flows about 70gph at 80psi 12v. You shouldn't really use 13v numbers as there's always a voltage drop heading to the fuel pump and you want to plan for worst scenarios.

70 US gallons E85 = 467.6 lb/hr E85 flow

BFSC for E85 on BMW engine is ~.80 (very good compared to others)

467.6/.8= 584.50 HP on E85

Even if the BSFC was down to .7 it probably wouldn't be enough:

467.6/.7 = 668.00 HP on E85

If using just that single pump, ditch the 115# injectors and go to 80#s - they are a better match for the setup.

If I'm using the wrong pump, let me know.

You can't argue with real world results, but I'm one to urge over engineering in the fuel department.

[E36 HateR]

Using information from here as I think this is the fuel pump you are referring to:

http://shop.cj-motorsports.com/Walbr...-walbro485.htm

Let's make some assumptions: 1.) Rail Pressure of 3.5 Bar (stock), 2.) Bump pressure of 2.0Bar (29psi). 3.) Resultant maximum fuel pressure 5.5bar or ~80psi.

Looking at the chart, this pump flows about 70gph at 80psi 12v. You shouldn't really use 13v numbers as there's always a voltage drop heading to the fuel pump and you want to plan for worst scenarios.

70 US gallons E85 = 467.6 lb/hr E85 flow

BFSC for E85 on BMW engine is ~.80 (very good compared to others)

467.6/.8= 584.50 HP on E85

Even if the BSFC was down to .7 it probably wouldn't be enough:

467.6/.7 = 668.00 HP on E85

If using just that single pump, ditch the 115# injectors and go to 80#s - they are a better match for the setup.

If I'm using the wrong pump, let me know.

You can't argue with real world results, but I'm one to urge over engineering in the fuel department.

We had plenty of fuel left on the table when jordan was tuning my car.

I have a single 485 and stock lines with 1000cc injectors.

509whp at 13psi which would be your 584hp per BSFC not BFSC

Ive had it up as high as 26psi with the afr's in check.

[Colby Colbs]

I highly intelligent tuning mastermind but I would like to see calculations on this...care to share?



My idea was to keep the ends and add a section into the middle of them...this way the connections to the fire wall and compressor stay the same.

Right I sectioned them and added idk a 4inch long piece. All connections still oring seal perfect and stock.

[NY98M3]

Life gets in the way so Ill be back at it today. Im going to get the AC lines made longer at a hose shop...

For those who what done it, did you get both lines made longer or just the big diameter one that's clearly in the way?

[NY98M3]

was able to make the line. Cost about $70 in parts and it is out of the way now.

For those who have dual wastegates, how is the air line hooked up? Does it get split at the wastegates or does it need a double source of pressure and 2 separate signal lines?

[mcoupemindy]

was able to make the line. Cost about $70 in parts and it is out of the way now.

For those who have dual wastegates, how is the air line hooked up? Does it get split at the wastegates or does it need a double source of pressure and 2 separate signal lines?

It is best for each to be independent.

BTW - can you share details about your A/C line extension? There are many who would like to know how you did it.

[NY98M3]

It is best for each to be independent.

BTW - can you share details about your A/C line extension? There are many who would like to know how you did it.

Sure can, seems the larger diameter line is the problem child so thats the one that was extended.

I basically kept both stock connections, for the fire wall side I cut the aluminum tube about an inch down from the connection to the fire wall, tig'd on a -10AN fitting, used a 90' that is crimped onto approx 5ft of Gates PolarSeal hose that loops past the DME, along the side between the strut tower and the fender down into the front bumper and looped back to the compressor where I used another crimped 90' to AN to go back to the compressor. Pictures tell 1000 words so Ill post some up when I get some time.

[1SLWM3]

Sure can, seems the larger diameter line is the problem child so thats the one that was extended.

I basically kept both stock connections, for the fire wall side I cut the aluminum tube about an inch down from the connection to the fire wall, tig'd on a -10AN fitting, used a 90' that is crimped onto approx 5ft of Gates PolarSeal hose that loops past the DME, along the side between the strut tower and the fender down into the front bumper and looped back to the compressor where I used another crimped 90' to AN to go back to the compressor. Pictures tell 1000 words so Ill post some up when I get some time.

I was considering a similar idea with different hose material but converting to a -10AN fitting and routing all the way around as well. Pictures would be super nice to see!

[Keith1054]

routing the lines under the front fender would make for a really clean install

is there any issues with using hose instead of hard line?

[cragg56]

routing the lines under the front fender would make for a really clean install

is there any issues with using hose instead of hard line?

Stock is a combo of hardline and hose. So there is no issue.

[chikinhed]

You can use Teflon hose with R134 to make your life easier. It would be nice to route both the lines inside the frame rail to get them out of the heat. Probably a 1/16" doubler welded around the hole would bring the strength back that would be lost making the hole for the lines.

Sent from my GTX3582R

[e30kid89]

I never bothered to post but I had something similar done to allow flexibility in routing of ac lines. Both "peanut" ends were cut off and -10an fittings were welded on, so I can use whatever choice of hose inbetween. Too lazy to take pics haha