View Poll Results: Which is the Best M3?

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  • E30 (1985-1992)

    39 27.08%
  • E36 (1992-1999)

    56 38.89%
  • E46 (2000-2006)

    32 22.22%
  • E90/92/93 (2007-2013)

    17 11.81%
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Thread: The Best M3

  1. #76
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackxs View Post
    Excess pressure? Sounds like free forced induction to me!

    FWIW the issue is not the Bernoulli effect (that is how an airplane wing generates lift), its the vortex that is created between the front top of the car and the top of the windshield. I havent seen an E90 in a wind tunnel so I dont know exactly the effects of removing a vent, never claimed to, just some food for thought
    I think I am wrong in my understanding of what the airbox hood vent does. While M3 drivers have observed water drops shooting out of it in rain like a whale spout, which suggests air flows out, there are some BMW diagrams floating around that show it as an entry to the airbox. Maybe different things happen at different speeds. I thought the area in front of the windshield was an area of negative pressure, not one of spinning vortex air, but I was an english major not a fluid dynamics engineer.

    I have read some hotrod magazine articles where they measure ram air benefits on intakes and apparently you need quite a lot of ram to get a noticeable effect and even then it is well short of free forced induction, unfortunately. If you could channel a ram air duct into a panel filter with no way around it, the benefit might be greater. With the BMW airbox, you have a medium sized filter sitting in the middle of a large box with ducts from the front side, the bottom and the top rear, so you end up with plenty of fresh air for the engine to breath, but probably no ram.

  3. #78
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    I haven't driven an e36/e30 M3's, but I can say that with my experience: E46 M3 > E9x M3.

    I've driven a few E46's and a few more E9x's. The S62 doesn't feel as fast as it is and I was always expecting more torque from the V8. When driving the various E92 M3's, I always felt like it probably isn't much faster than the E46 (if at all) since the E92 seemed so much more bloated and heavy. For DD city duties, I'd definitely prefer the E46. Since I don't have any track experience with either car, I won't get into that. But I feel like the E92 would probably make up some ground there.


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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by nike001 View Post
    The S62 doesn't feel as fast as it is and I was always expecting more torque from the V8.
    S62 is from the E39 M5 and has plenty of torque.
    S65 is the E92 M3.

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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackxs View Post
    S62 is from the E39 M5 and has plenty of torque.
    S65 is the E92 M3.
    Yeah yeah, that's it. I don't know how I mixed those up. FWIW, I like the S65 a lot better than the S62 even though I'd probably take an E39 M5 over an E9x M3.


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  6. #81
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  7. #82
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    98 M3
    Realistically, every model is "better" than the last, but each one has is benefits.
    e30 - classic, gorgeous, raw, and a true drivers car, one of the most timeless designs in modern car history IMO
    e36 - slightly more refined, reliable, great value, faster yet still lightweight and nimble
    e46 - FAST, fun, and a car you can drive daily and comfortably
    e9x - luxurious, retardedly fast, V8, near supercar #s, V8, V8, V8, and V8.
    You really cant go wrong with any of them, and they all fit a certain role in a garage.

    - 98 m3, techno/anthrazit cloth, 124k and officially worthless - 89 m3, alpine/black 143k and officially old - 2000 323it, tiag/grey, 169k and officially boring

  8. #83
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    Apples to oranges. All have their strengths.

    e30 - The original. Absolute gamechanger, dominant car, feels truly alive and connected to the art of driving
    e36 - If one were to pick a worst M3, probably this one. Still, it made the M3 mainstream in a good way, and e36 M3s have immense market support and do make a great project car. There's a reason everybody's mother races an m3
    e46 - Upped the game BIG TIME. Very raw for such a modern vehicle. Unbelievably fun, classic design, immense i6. CSL an instant classic
    e90 - The most well rounded, complete M3. Despite this, not compromised in performance or charm. GTS, like the CSL before it, and instant classic
    f82 - Who knows. First impressions from many are that it actually offers that raw feel and communication of the e46 and even e30 (though I bet that's a stretch). Still remains modern and luxurious. Weighing less than the e90 and offering WAY more torque, this newest version could be the best yet, but we already can be certain it will be the fastest. Consderably.

    It's speculation until more tests surface, but i'm most excited for the new m3/4. Looks like it will bring an increased performance edge to the M brand ina day when BMW, including many m cars, have gotten a little big and soft.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nike001 View Post
    Yeah yeah, that's it. I don't know how I mixed those up. FWIW, I like the S65 a lot better than the S62 even though I'd probably take an E39 M5 over an E9x M3.
    That makes little sense..... the s62 is the single best feature on the M5. The s65 is an amazing engine, but the torque of the s62 offers a whole new dimension of performance the s65 can't touch. That can also be said of the s65's high revving nature, although the torque deficit offsets that.

    That said, I'd rather have an e90 m3 if I were going for a 4 door. Much lighter car, better all around performance. But it would be even better with the M5's v8 in there.
    Last edited by Juicy Double; 04-16-2014 at 02:17 PM.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by nike001 View Post
    Yeah yeah, that's it. I don't know how I mixed those up. FWIW, I like the S65 a lot better than the S62 even though I'd probably take an E39 M5 over an E9x M3.
    Thats surprising, since the S65 basically drives like a gutless S62. I think a lot of people think they would like the S65 more because revs are fun, but the S62 is so effortless with its low-down torque. They both generate good power for about 5,000 rpm - on the S62 this is from 2k to 7k, on the S65 its from 4k to 9k and thus harder to use. Around town the S62 is the better engine and I think if people experienced both back to back without knowing which is which they would prefer the S62.

    I gotta agree with above poster, I think an E92 M3 with an S62 would be great. Maybe I should keep my eyes peeled for a blown engine E92 to do a fun swap to. Or a 1 series heehee

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  10. #85
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  11. #86
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    I think I am wrong in my understanding of what the airbox hood vent does. While M3 drivers have observed water drops shooting out of it in rain like a whale spout, which suggests air flows out, there are some BMW diagrams floating around that show it as an entry to the airbox. Maybe different things happen at different speeds. I thought the area in front of the windshield was an area of negative pressure, not one of spinning vortex air, but I was an english major not a fluid dynamics engineer.

    I have read some hotrod magazine articles where they measure ram air benefits on intakes and apparently you need quite a lot of ram to get a noticeable effect and even then it is well short of free forced induction, unfortunately. If you could channel a ram air duct into a panel filter with no way around it, the benefit might be greater. With the BMW airbox, you have a medium sized filter sitting in the middle of a large box with ducts from the front side, the bottom and the top rear, so you end up with plenty of fresh air for the engine to breath, but probably no ram.
    Not sure how I missed this post before, but when sitting inside the car, the vent on the left goes to the airbox. Rain may come out of it at speed because air travels through it and it is designed to let water accumulate into drops and come out instead of going into the intake. It has a few baffles designed for that. From inside the cabin the vent on the passengar side serves no purpose and I assumed this is one you said you opened.

    There is positive pressure here, and a vortex created if the hood is opened there. Pardon the French...


    http://www.tafsm.org/AHPCRC9498/bull...2/flow/car.gif
    http://www.up22.com/AerodynamicImages/liftdownforce.gif

    And true, the ram air is completely negligable, but you made any ram air effect sound bad ("It has the drainage covered and the excess positive pressure covered."). I am not saying it helps but it definitely doesnt hurt and isnt something that needs to be altered or removed.

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  13. #88
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  14. #89
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    I'm torn. I love the E30, but own an E46. Must be a lot of E36 owners on here...

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShowtiM3 View Post
    I'm torn. I love the E30, but own an E46. Must be a lot of E36 owners on here...
    why is this the default reaction to a majority for for the e36? Can't it be that the e36 is actually the best of the bunch? I don't want to come across as biased (no doubt that is an inevitability) but surely the fact that the e36 is the most accessible M and offers not much less of an experience as an e46 M is worth noting.

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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShowtiM3 View Post
    I'm torn. I love the E30, but own an E46. Must be a lot of E36 owners on here...

    While that may be true and I am biased to the e36 as an owner, I do believe they offer something that the others don't, just as each generation has its own unique attributes. I don't think there is such thing as a "best m3" unless you define what makes the m3 an m3(which is different for everyone). I am basing much of this off of discussions with friends and members who have had extensive experience with all generations.

    I think the e36 has the advantage of being a great blend of a drivers car while adding just enough luxury and power with the s50/s52 for someone that appreciates the road feel, steering response, noise, throttle cable, and raw styling without being quite as "harsh" as the E30 and offering a bit more power. I have yet to own an e30 but I believe it would easily be my favorite(more so with an s52/54 swap) but this is because I enjoy the way my m3 drives much more than being comfortable. (I run very harsh springs for the street).

    The biggest advantage of the e46 is probably the s54 which I've heard many state as their favorite BMW engine. It is also my favorite aesthetically although I do wish it was a bit smaller and lighter. I have heard the e46 referred to as the last "true m3" several times but have also heard the same for the e36. I plan on owning an alpine/cinnamon e46 m3 within the next 5 years and eventually an s52, s54, or lsx swapped e30.

    The e90/e92 seems to get the least praise from those I know who have driven each gen since it has strayed so far from the original m3 in terms of size, weight and feel. Those I've met who do love them seem to not care much for the e30,e36,e46 or the "drivers car" attributes that I believe make the m3 what it is. This generation has always interested me the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3MPowered View Post
    why is this the default reaction to a majority for for the e36? Can't it be that the e36 is actually the best of the bunch? I don't want to come across as biased (no doubt that is an inevitability) but surely the fact that the e36 is the most accessible M and offers not much less of an experience as an e46 M is worth noting.
    I think the accessibility goes along with what he was referring to about the amount of owners here but I also agree that many are too quick to state that the e36 could not possibly be the best. This is probably due to the Europe/US spec fiasco and the lack of differentiation compared to the 3-series models. I'm sure the e36 accessibility also rubs some bmw owners egos the wrong way, as if it's not exclusive enough anymore because of the price. But I still think it offers something unique just as the others do. I hope to have an alpine swapped e30, e36, e46, and e90 all lined up in my driveway someday for extensive testing. I'll be sure to report back with my thoughts in 8-10 years when that dream comes true. My guess is that my list of best to worst will be in this order: e30, e36/e46, e90

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShowtiM3 View Post
    I'm torn. I love the E30, but own an E46. Must be a lot of E36 owners on here...
    Yep, that's the only thing that could possibly explain the poll results. The poll could just as easily ask "Which M3 do you own" and the results would be very similar.

  18. #93
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    I have yet to drive an e30 or an e9x so that leaves me in a kinda grey area, But between the e36 and e46 I would have to say I like the e36 much better. Been in both M models and I like the e36's ride way better. It just felt more raw to me but smooth and elegant at the same time, where as the e46 felt watered down and rough. Also i think the lines on the e36 are much better than the e46 and e9x but it is really hard to compete with the e30 in looks cuz you just can't mess with a classic. Honestly I feel that the e36 m3 is the most bang for your buck. You can find a pretty good quality one for about $7000 in my area of the country where the e46 and e30 run between 10-$13,000. I haven't even seen any e9x models for sale out here tho, I'd imagine they are very pricey.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bladerealm124 View Post
    While that may be true and I am biased to the e36 as an owner, I do believe they offer something that the others don't, just as each generation has its own unique attributes. I don't think there is such thing as a "best m3" unless you define what makes the m3 an m3(which is different for everyone). I am basing much of this off of discussions with friends and members who have had extensive experience with all generations.

    I think the e36 has the advantage of being a great blend of a drivers car while adding just enough luxury and power with the s50/s52 for someone that appreciates the road feel, steering response, noise, throttle cable, and raw styling without being quite as "harsh" as the E30 and offering a bit more power. I have yet to own an e30 but I believe it would easily be my favorite(more so with an s52/54 swap) but this is because I enjoy the way my m3 drives much more than being comfortable. (I run very harsh springs for the street).

    The biggest advantage of the e46 is probably the s54 which I've heard many state as their favorite BMW engine. It is also my favorite aesthetically although I do wish it was a bit smaller and lighter. I have heard the e46 referred to as the last "true m3" several times but have also heard the same for the e36. I plan on owning an alpine/cinnamon e46 m3 within the next 5 years and eventually an s52, s54, or lsx swapped e30.

    The e90/e92 seems to get the least praise from those I know who have driven each gen since it has strayed so far from the original m3 in terms of size, weight and feel. Those I've met who do love them seem to not care much for the e30,e36,e46 or the "drivers car" attributes that I believe make the m3 what it is. This generation has always interested me the least.



    I think the accessibility goes along with what he was referring to about the amount of owners here but I also agree that many are too quick to state that the e36 could not possibly be the best. This is probably due to the Europe/US spec fiasco and the lack of differentiation compared to the 3-series models. I'm sure the e36 accessibility also rubs some bmw owners egos the wrong way, as if it's not exclusive enough anymore because of the price. But I still think it offers something unique just as the others do. I hope to have an alpine swapped e30, e36, e46, and e90 all lined up in my driveway someday for extensive testing. I'll be sure to report back with my thoughts in 8-10 years when that dream comes true. My guess is that my list of best to worst will be in this order: e30, e36/e46, e90
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  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by M62pwrdE38 View Post
    Yep, that's the only thing that could possibly explain the poll results. The poll could just as easily ask "Which M3 do you own" and the results would be very similar.
    This statement wouldn't be as funny without my post above. Thank you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bladerealm124 View Post
    While that may be true and I am biased to the e36 as an owner, I do believe they offer something that the others don't, just as each generation has its own unique attributes. I don't think there is such thing as a "best m3" unless you define what makes the m3 an m3(which is different for everyone). I am basing much of this off of discussions with friends and members who have had extensive experience with all generations.

    I think the e36 has the advantage of being a great blend of a drivers car while adding just enough luxury and power with the s50/s52 for someone that appreciates the road feel, steering response, noise, throttle cable, and raw styling without being quite as "harsh" as the E30 and offering a bit more power. I have yet to own an e30 but I believe it would easily be my favorite(more so with an s52/54 swap) but this is because I enjoy the way my m3 drives much more than being comfortable. (I run very harsh springs for the street).

    The biggest advantage of the e46 is probably the s54 which I've heard many state as their favorite BMW engine. It is also my favorite aesthetically although I do wish it was a bit smaller and lighter. I have heard the e46 referred to as the last "true m3" several times but have also heard the same for the e36. I plan on owning an alpine/cinnamon e46 m3 within the next 5 years and eventually an s52, s54, or lsx swapped e30.

    The e90/e92 seems to get the least praise from those I know who have driven each gen since it has strayed so far from the original m3 in terms of size, weight and feel. Those I've met who do love them seem to not care much for the e30,e36,e46 or the "drivers car" attributes that I believe make the m3 what it is. This generation has always interested me the least.



    I think the accessibility goes along with what he was referring to about the amount of owners here but I also agree that many are too quick to state that the e36 could not possibly be the best. This is probably due to the Europe/US spec fiasco and the lack of differentiation compared to the 3-series models. I'm sure the e36 accessibility also rubs some bmw owners egos the wrong way, as if it's not exclusive enough anymore because of the price. But I still think it offers something unique just as the others do. I hope to have an alpine swapped e30, e36, e46, and e90 all lined up in my driveway someday for extensive testing. I'll be sure to report back with my thoughts in 8-10 years when that dream comes true. My guess is that my list of best to worst will be in this order: e30, e36/e46, e90
    You're quite right, I think there's an ego in play here. To that effect, I think it's worth mentioning that in terms of driving pleasure, most of today's car models (of all makes) are bested by their predecessors. It's not that cars have gotten less exciting, but what makes them exciting has been eroded by technologies that do little to add to the experience. So while an E92 might fetch a handsome sum (for now) the E36 cost the equivalent sum in its day and offers nothing less in terms of it's driving experience.

    Is is one better than the other? Depends on whether or not dynamic -this and active-that add to what you seem to be fun. If you're one of these, an E30 can't be high on your list, but then, most would disagree with you.

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