E34 Aftermarket Stereo Install with stock amp/speakers??

[SwissCheeseHead]

I've done a bit of searching. There's so much mumbo/jumbo information that it's hard to tell what you need and what you don't. I've done stereo installs before, but I've only ever replaced all of the equipment to aftermarket. In this case, I want to replace the head unit but keep the stock amp and speakers.

I just want to replace the stock head unit and keep the stock amp and speakers.

Car is a 94 530i. Build date is 3/93.

There are a couple different harnesses out there, but I think this one is the one I need. Do I need anything else? Will there will be issues with the built-in amp/crossovers from most aftermarket HU's and the stock amp/crossovers? (most likely) What will I need to correct this?

The harness:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-2008-Se...p2054897.l4275

Here's the same one on Amazon (i'm pretty sure).
http://www.amazon.com/Metra-70-8590-...=metra+70-8590

The antenna adapter that I think will work:
http://www.amazon.com/Metra-40-VW10-...ntenna+adapter

Thanks fellas.

[demetk]

Just bought a JVC headunit from Sonic Electronix and they were kind enough to send me the adapters for free.
If you have the amp you need the adapter made for the amp.
I used both of these adapters in my install.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...a-70-8591.html

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...-VWAB-VWA.html

[Jsamora]

I have a 1/95 530I and I used the harness SwissCheeseHead provided and it worked perfectly.

[raceyBMW]

SwissCheeseHead, that harness will work fine. You will also need the antenna adapter DEMETEK posted.

The output voltage from the new head unit tends to overwhelm the factory amp at high volumes.

I would suggest following this example also in regards to grounding.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...3#post26492293

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...6#post26097486

Here is what to do: connect the red, yellow, orange (optional, only dims the deck).

Connect the blue/white on the deck to the blue of the harness.

Now...here is the tough part: connect the white to white, gray to gray, purple to purple and green to green.

Do NOT connect the "black stripe" wires from the deck at all, simply insulate them, they will not be used.

So now, take all 4 "black stripe" wires that are on the harness and simply ground them.

Yes, that is correct: 5 wires on the harness side AND the deck ground go together.

Once again, the "black stripe" wires from the deck are NOT used.

Oh: note that the SOEM-4 isn't mentioned...set that noisy, miserable pile of crap aside for when you are doing an old GM with a Bose system, or a Nisssan.

And, if you would like to have a great sounding car...let me know, gotcha covered.

GL and HTH,

[jehu]

EDIT:: I see above while I was typing this this info was posted..

I believe I read somewhere you don't wire every speaker neg to their HU neg.. the BMW has a common ground?

I used that harness wiring an Alpine deck one to one and had a low level buzz audible at low volumes..

I know the info is here somewhere but I think I read you wire all the stock car speaker negs to the HU ground and not the speaker (-) form the HU?

Hopefully someone who's done it successfully will post.. all I remember is when I used that harness and wired it as you would normally matching each wire + to + and - to - there was a buzz.. everything worked ok and at higher volumes was inaudible but could be heard at lower volumes and I later after buying a CD43 which is plug and play read something about this wiring and the BMW common ground ..

[mottati]

on a later car, i've done it using a similar adapter and all worked well. There was also a Y adapter for the antenna that i used.

Early cars have the common ground thing and that is a bit different for wiring (don't connect the neg speaker wires from the head unit)

[SwissCheeseHead]

YES! Thank you guys. This is the info I was looking for. I hope this helps other people looking to do the same thing. There's just so much out there with all different kinds of information, it's hard to put it all together and get everything you need.

So the harness that I posted plus the antenna adapter that demetk posted and possibly the common ground that raceyBMW and jehu were talking about but possibly not as mottati was mentioning. lol

Still better than what's currently out there.

[mottati]

common ground was early cars, like pre 91. I did my 530 touring, 10/93 build exactly like you are. Same harness and antenna adapters. I also added a small amplified sub, so ran rca cables back for that. But otherwise, aftermarket head unit, harness, stock amp and speakers. It actually sounded quite good, but like others have said, you can get some distortion at very high volumes because of the high power output from the HU going to the OE amp.

[SwissCheeseHead]

Awesome. Thanks for the affirmation that everything works. I've outgrown listening to loud music so I'm not too worried about distortion. I'm mainly doing it so I can have bluetooth for both streaming and hands-free talking but don't want to gut out all the audio.

[demetk]

The wiring adapter with the 2 channel RCA pre-outs I think is a better option. I could be wrong.

[m735is]

Just to throw a curve ball into this, I just attempted to use the 70-8590 harness on a JVC into my 95 525i-stock amp and speakers. The harness pins and wires don't match. I THINK I need the 80-8590. I also didn't connect the negative speaker wires, I was going to see what it sounded like before I did. But since the harness didn't match, I couldn't see. So I guess for my application, I should connect the negative wires to the harness??

[mottati]

only car you wouldn't connect neg wires is a pre9/90 common ground system. On those cars there are no neg speaker wires at the head unit, so you really have no choice. I can't remember when i did my harness if colors matched, but i just followed the pins on the adapter to the colors of the car harness and wired it up appropriately

[Stereoinstaller1]

In my opinion, under no circumstance should the speaker negatives (from the deck) be used when installing an aftermarket deck into an E34.

Just insulate all 4 wires and wrap them up, they need not be used in this car.

All E34 amplifiers need a lower signal level, using chassis ground as the input negative solves this issue, regardless of year.

Simply connect the 4 "black stripe" wires on the 70-8590 to the black ground wire, along with the deck ground.

(BTW, there is no "80-8590": 71 series is deck side, 70 series is car side, 8590 is '91 through 2002. If yours does not fit, post a pic, something else is going on)

What this does, as previously explained, is reduce the aftermarket decks output voltage to match the stock BMW decks output so the amplifier is happy with the input level.

As an added benefit, the aftermarket deck is under less stress, so it will run cooler and live longer.

(Mike, if you re-wired your adapter to follow this your car would sound better, I promise. That distortion at higher volumes would disappear)

Luke

[m735is]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A2NZ90LHQ2OXOS

I haven't posted a pic on this site yet, so I can't show the one I have.

[Stereoinstaller1]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A2NZ90LHQ2OXOS

I haven't posted a pic on this site yet, so I can't show the one I have.

Sorry, you are right, but let me clarify: the 80-8590 is the same plug but adds a second plug, intended to make it easier in some applications.

The part that plugs into the car is, AFAIK, exactly the same. According to Metra, there is only one plug for all BMW of that era.

None of the shops I ever worked in carried the weird adapters like that, so I have not seen one personally. We always just used the 70-8590.

[Bimmerick]

In my opinion, under no circumstance should the speaker negatives (from the deck) be used when installing an aftermarket deck into an E34.

Just insulate all 4 wires and wrap them up, they need not be used in this car.

All E34 amplifiers need a lower signal level, using chassis ground as the input negative solves this issue, regardless of year.

Simply connect the 4 "black stripe" wires on the 70-8590 to the black ground wire, along with the deck ground.

(BTW, there is no "80-8590": 71 series is deck side, 70 series is car side, 8590 is '91 through 2002. If yours does not fit, post a pic, something else is going on)

What this does, as previously explained, is reduce the aftermarket decks output voltage to match the stock BMW decks output so the amplifier is happy with the input level.

As an added benefit, the aftermarket deck is under less stress, so it will run cooler and live longer.

(Mike, if you re-wired your adapter to follow this your car would sound better, I promise. That distortion at higher volumes would disappear)

Luke

So I've got a new receiver coming from Crutchfield and they advised that I get on of these:



I understand the requirement to reduce the input signal to the car's oem amps. In your opinion will there be any discernible improvement in sound quality by using this Scosche unit over using the "ground the black stripes" method. The method you describe would be much simpler. Thank you for your help.

[m735is]

Sorry, you are right, but let me clarify: the 80-8590 is the same plug but adds a second plug, intended to make it easier in some applications.

The part that plugs into the car is, AFAIK, exactly the same. According to Metra, there is only one plug for all BMW of that era.

None of the shops I ever worked in carried the weird adapters like that, so I have not seen one personally. We always just used the 70-8590.

Now I'm really curious. I have to go out and triple check the pins on the chassis side. From the pic in the Amazon ad, it looks like the wires are different on the plug. The adapters look to be the same, just with different pin assignments. Not sure what you mean by a second plug added to the 80-8590 to make it easier though.

[demetk]

I simply used this and avoided all of the individual speaker wire hookups and the inherent distortions of the other adapters mentioned above.

[Bimmerick]

I simply used this and avoided all of the individual speaker wire hookups and the inherent distortions of the other adapters mentioned above.

I like that adaptor you used. The one Crutchfield is sending does not have the pre-amps, only speaker level hook ups. Rather than getting one like it or using the Scosche adaptor, my question is whether the black stripe grounding method produces the same real world quality of results (more or less...).

[Stereoinstaller1]

First:

Now I'm really curious. I have to go out and triple check the pins on the chassis side. From the pic in the Amazon ad, it looks like the wires are different on the plug. The adapters look to be the same, just with different pin assignments. Not sure what you mean by a second plug added to the 80-8590 to make it easier though.

Yessir, as far as I know, they are exactly the same. Circuit City has those made for their incompetent hacks, that is why they are discontinued. Cc is out of business as I am sure you know. The plug at the other end of that harness is plugged directly into an aftermarket deck harness that was also made for Circuit City, making the install plug and play. If yours does not have a second plug (wide white 24 pin, likely ATX) on the other end, it was just a weird one.

CC liked to use things that were re-labeled with their own model number. Lots of manufacturers would custom label, just so those rat-bastards would not have to price match.

Either way, if it doesn't fit, post a pic, we will get you squared away.

Second:

So I've got a new receiver coming from Crutchfield and they advised that I get on of these:



I understand the requirement to reduce the input signal to the car's oem amps. In your opinion will there be any discernible improvement in sound quality by using this Scosche unit over using the "ground the black stripes" method. The method you describe would be much simpler. Thank you for your help.

Crutchfield ALWAYS sends the wrong antenna adapter too, make sure you get the 40-EU10 and NOT the stupid powered adapter, that is for VW/Audi only and then ONLY the ones with a rooftop antenna.

This right here is my big caveat: Yes, the SOEM-4 or that Scosche LOC are both capable of dropping voltages adequately, but it uses resistors and transformers to "de-couple" the outputs...meaning it runs the signal through the most sonically damaging parts in the audio world. They make the system sound flatter and more lifeless.

I really do not recommend using one at all, the voltage drop method generally works flawlessly.

I like that adaptor you used. The one Crutchfield is sending does not have the pre-amps, only speaker level hook ups. Rather than getting one like it or using the Scosche adaptor, my question is whether the black stripe grounding method produces the same real world quality of results (more or less...).

I agree completely...except that if anyone ever has successfully used that 70-8591, I would be amazed. The pre-amp levels would have to be insanely high or you would have a very low output. Most decks when connected to that 70-8591 can hadly get to 1/3rd of the amps power output. Won't hurt a thing, but just won't play loud.

BTW, do note that they used exactly the same wires in the cars harness...there isn't a special set of RCA that were run and used only for this harness...IMO, if BMW did something a certain way, the logical path is to replicate it as accurately as possible.

Personally, I would guess that I have done at least 1000 BMW systems using this method with complete success. I have had a couple of total failures, but I have never had time to just fix it, I had to get the car done, so for the most part, it took a deck swap to make it work at worst. These cars are bizarre, but once you understand their philosophy, it makes sense.

[Bimmerick]

Good gauge; thank you. My new stereo should be here tomorrow; for reference maybe I'll take some pics of the "voltage drop" wiring method and installation.

[Stereoinstaller1]

Good gauge; thank you. My new stereo should be here tomorrow; for reference maybe I'll take some pics of the "voltage drop" wiring method and installation.

Thanks! Hope it works well for you.

[Bimmerick]

So my gear showed up yesterday. I like the deck; some nice features, and it is very shallow (with no CD or cassette)...




I didn't have time to swap out the decks last night, but I did wire up the harness. Below is my take on the voltage drop wiring; I'll pop the deck in tonight...

[Stereoinstaller1]

And?

[Bimmerick]

And?

Sorry for the delayed response. The wiring set up above works like a champ; no additional adaptor needed. I also ran the external phone mic up the driver side A pillar and clipped it on the visor with the supplied clip. Additionally I ran the supplied USB cable and 3.5mm aux jack into the ashtray for easy but discrete access.

I will take some pics when the dash is fully reassembled; right now I am waiting on some new bulbs for my OBC. All three bulbs were blown; is that unusual?