Need help identifying engine

[ZenitramNaes]

I'm having trouble identifying the engine in my 89 e34 535i. I believe it is some sort of m30 variant, but whether it is an m30b34 or an m106 I'm unsure. I soon will be installing Megasquirt and need to know exactly what the internals are.
Some info:
It has the k27 turbo along with the 745i exhaust manifolds and turbo piping and engine mounted inter cooler. The head has an 85 and a 15 stamped near the front of the head while near the read of the head are the numbers, 1 288 086.9 I've personally asked Scottie Sharp and he too wasn't certain. Any input would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

I've attached some photos, let me know if anyone else requires any more information that could help identify it.







And the main reason swapping to a stand alone unit.

[ZenitramNaes]

So I've come to the conclusion that it isn't an M106 due to the lack of knock sensors and the word "turbo" stamped into the head. In this thread he is using an m102 head from an 1981 e23 745i and it shares the same part number as mine, is it fair to assume mine came from a similar e23? I've also seen the same part number come up on a e24 635i which also had the option of an m102 (correct me if I'm wrong) or some sort of m30b34 variant.

Ninth photo down shows the part number of the cylinder head.

http://www.xceedspeed.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=142255

[DesktopDave]

Wish I could help out; I'm no expert on this stuff. My M106 has the markings you describe. I do have a spare M30B32 head (cast in '84, 473 casting?). I can pull out if you really need something to compare this with.

I'd suspect it's a stock '84 M30 that's been fitted with the turbo manifolds, then chipped. Looks like it's using an RRFPR to control fueling mechanically. Valve cover and plug wire plenum look like the late model M30B35 - I'd suspect they're swapped from the original M30B35 motor. Earlier covers have the rondel with stripes, later ones have 'BMW' spelled out. Earlier motors also don't have those three studs in the middle of the cover - IIRC L-Jet motors had the IACV bolted to the cover near the oil fill. Motronics had the AFM and air filter "floating" above the cover on rubber mounts.

IMHO an E34 with the turbo motor would be a great combo. The E34 is a lot more modern then the E23.

[ZenitramNaes]

Don't get me wrong, this car is a blast to drive! I just wish I knew exactly what I had so upgrading would be easier. The newer valve cover is what tricked me for so long. It was only when I tried putting on a b35 intake manifold is when I realized that the bore didn't quite match up and what I was looking at wasn't a b35.

I've pulled apart the DME and didn't find any performance chips, I have pictures around somewhere, but you are correct about the BEGi RRFPR. I'll look up some information on the b32 and see if there is some chance yours could help. Now that I've got an idea what the cylinder head is, the chances that the block is matching is pretty high, but then again, nothing is certain. Where could I find some identification markings that could help my identify the block?

Thank you for the reply!

[ZenitramNaes]

Found VIN on block, results as follows.

Chassis number 8483375
Vehicle code 6991
Series E23
Model 745i
Body type saloon
Catalog model ECE
Production date 1984 / 04
Engine M30
Transmission Automatic
Steering Left
Catalyzer NONE

So all I need to figure out now, is what this means for my mega squirt plans.

[DesktopDave]

Your motor's VIN isn't far off from mine! Same year, about 2K cars newer. I never thought they'd built that many!

I'd guess the original head cracked from an overheat and was replaced with an '85 casting (from a B32 or B34). I'm not sure what the differences between the heads really are - there have only been 4-5 different M30 head castings AFAIK. From what I've heard, the "Turbo" head casting was just machined differently. The original M106 ran a knock sensor, that stupid aux air valve (instead of an ICV), an additional temp sensor, larger exhaust studs and different valves. Not sure if the exhaust valves were inconel, sodium-filled, or just a higher grade of stainless. Given the mild boost, I'd figure a stock M30 head would handle it just fine.

I'd figure you could run the late-model crank wheel with MS (our earlier cars still have the Motronic 1.0 bell housing speed & position sensors), maybe with the OEM inductive pickup off the #1 plug wire for cam synch. An updated 2 bar pressure sensor and properly sized injectors should manage it quite well. IIRC certain revisions of the MS can't run a Bosch ICV, I think MS-II fixed that.

Hang onto that Motronic & chip though - it'd be a great starting point for a Motronic 1.3 upgrade. Given an E34 535i harness, any M106 owner could update to the later Bosch setup with very little fuss...and a bin dump from your car.

[Hit Man X]

The valves are made of Nimonic, which is roughly: Ni 54% min, Cr 18-21%, Co 15-21%, Ti 2-3%, and Al 1-2% Pretty badass stuff for the cylinder head. I am sure someone has put the camshaft on a Cam Doctor or similar, but as I understand it is the same as the 10:1 euro cam or very similar to the US B35 unit. Yup, also had 10mm exhaust studs. Car was made for extended periods of cruising at or near WOT, hence the bits, the 2.93:1 diff, oil jets for the pistons, revised turbo slugs, etc.



99% sure it is an M106 after looking at the pic with the intake plenum removed. It looks like the rear knock sensor location is drilled and tapped, just between the 5/6 runner. Front sensor location is obscured.

Need to port match or just buy a B34 intake plenum. That is comical at best.



ECU is not an -013 from a Motronic, nor is it a -124/-127 from an Ljet 745i. Also it is not a -008 from a 733i and not a -059 from a 735i. It APPEARS to be a -040 or similar as only the euro 10:1 ECU will run that moronic idle slide valve business. How it copes with the larger 745i injectors is beyond me, probably just a tightened AFM spring. Also seems the timing curve to be off quite a bit, so is probably pig rich under load to help.

In any event, E34 harness, B35 trigger wheel, three wire ICV, GM IAT, MS PNP box, and a wideband should just about get the car going without all of that rats nest BS there.



All I have for now, chaps.

[DesktopDave]

ECU is not an -013 from a Motronic, nor is it a -124/-127 from an Ljet 745i. Also it is not a -008 from a 733i and not a -059 from a 735i. It APPEARS to be a -040 or similar as only the euro 10:1 ECU will run that moronic idle slide valve business. How it copes with the larger 745i injectors is beyond me, probably just a tightened AFM spring. Also seems the timing curve to be off quite a bit, so is probably pig rich under load to help.

I was thinking that it's a stock 179 DME from the original 535i, but it can't be. It's older. The original unit would have had Motronic stamped into the cover, and had the slide-lock latch instead of those plastic locking ears.

With an RRFPR and a custom chip, I'll bet most early Motronics could run an M106 adequately. If the car is still running the flywheel sensors it'll be some 1.0 or 1.1 unit. Any standalone would be the better solution, of course. IIRC the Euro high compression 'dirty' M30 runs an 011 DME.

[Hit Man X]

I was thinking that it's a stock 179 DME from the original 535i, but it can't be. It's older. The original unit would have had Motronic stamped into the cover, and had the slide-lock latch instead of those plastic locking ears.

With an RRFPR and a custom chip, I'll bet most early Motronics could run an M106 adequately. If the car is still running the flywheel sensors it'll be some 1.0 or 1.1 unit. Any standalone would be the better solution, of course. IIRC the Euro high compression 'dirty' M30 runs an 011 DME.

I have seen a B34 10:1 with -061 too, that one is small like the Knock Box sized. Maybe it is a 732i ECU. :hmm: 728i was Ljet.

Who would have made custom chips for that ECE ECU I wonder? I am willing to bet the thing has the stock chip set and just runs pig rich to help quell detonation. It has the reference sensors, spoke with the Shawn (sp?) earlier today.

Either way, a very bizarre hack job to make it run.

[ZenitramNaes]

It has the reference sensors, spoke with the Shawn (sp?) earlier today.

Sean Martinez = ZenitramNaes backwards. Thanks for the reply guys, here is some more photos.

Okay, some photos requested by Eric. First off the knock sensor locations. Never knew how small of a hole I was looking for, turns out there are two locations on the block.
Don't know how deep they are supposed to go, but they don't seem to deep.

Front two..




And the back..



MODS: Please, let me know if photos are too big, I could always link them. Thanks.

Now for a closer look at the DME.

Simply labeled MOTRONIC with the sticker ripped off, because leaving one on would make things too easy..









The guts..



Pop the tabs to open it up..











Some numbers at the bottom of the board. Didn't know if they would help or not..



And of course, the very official Alpina label written in sharpie on the bottom.

[Hit Man X]

Yup, M106 block.

Chips look all stock to me.

[ZenitramNaes]

Yup, M106 block.

Chips look all stock to me.

Sweet! I'm happy about that. Yep, none of the chips looked out of place.

[DesktopDave]

Yours has the fuel quality switch and four soldered ROM chips - I'd guess it's a very early Motronic there, maybe an '82? Seems that a lot of older M30 DMEs had cases like that, here's an 040 up for auction, and here's an 059.

Later DMEs had the socketed EPROM that could be easily swapped out. Your car is unique - wonder who built it? I'm not sure where I'd start with something like that. MS will solve quite a few troubleshooting headaches down the road, I'd guess.

[ZenitramNaes]

Here is a link to the shop I THINK that built the car http://northernmotorsport.blogspot.com/

I sent them an emailing asking for any information they could give me about it.

I have no experience about the different types of DME's, I know the 179 and that's about it. So I'm way out of my league when it comes to figuring out what it is, so I appreciated all the help.

I've been looking though his old account threads (PO) wem2697 (found it about a year ago, forgot how I stummpled upon it) apparently it's been in an issue of Roundel magazine. I'm not a member of bmwcca so I can't look through their archive.

Just got an email back from Northern Motorsport. They had little to do with the car. I guess someone had built it in California, and the PO had it shipped up to Vermont.

[Hit Man X]

Here is a link to the shop I THINK that built the car http://northernmotorsport.blogspot.com/

I sent them an emailing asking for any information they could give me about it.

I have no experience about the different types of DME's, I know the 179 and that's about it. So I'm way out of my league when it comes to figuring out what it is, so I appreciated all the help.

I've been looking though his old account threads (PO) wem2697 (found it about a year ago, forgot how I stummpled upon it) apparently it's been in an issue of Roundel magazine. I'm not a member of bmwcca so I can't look through their archive.

Stick with the MS plan I told you about on the horn earlier. Waste no more brain power on that hackjob in there currently.

[ZenitramNaes]

Stick with the MS plan I told you about on the horn earlier. Waste no more brain power on that hackjob in there currently.

Good idea! I'll be back in a month or so (give or take, just started school again) Thanks again.